Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[JudgeJudi]

Another point that occurred to me is hearing LE - notably the lead ISP investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman - being critical of posting theories or reenactments. He stated that were not on the right track or something to that effect. I thought it was in the 14 August 2017 interview, but I looked at that transcript and it wasn't in that interview.

Is this what you were looking for?

Article dated Feb 12, 2019

Holeman confirms, “There’s a lot of false information out there”. “Social media, although not new… does impede our investigation. Like when people put up side-by-side photos of innocent people—or, at least, people with no ties to the state of Indiana or Delphi—which creates false [information]. People believe it [though] because it’s on the internet.”

And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube re-enactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just wanted to share one of my many random thoughts that pop into my head daily about this heinous crime. My thoughts and opinions of course.

It has to do with the searchers and the deer/s. So in my mind I picture a decent amount of people making a lot of noise, be it yelling the girls names, possibly on walkie talkies or cell phones and rustling through the wooded area while searching in broad daylight would deer just be hanging out? Aren’t they known to be skittish animals? I find it so very odd that a searcher happens to see some deer just standing there then spots the bodies. Did any other searcher actually see the deer?

If you’re able to find the link of when BP stated the searchers saw the deer, I’m quite sure she added the deer were “high up on the ridge”. Then the searcher looked down and noticed the bodies. Indeed the river bank area is much lower in elevation than the upper ridge where the cemetery and RLs home are located. Somewhere there’s a video of RL taking a reporter to the crime scene area and indeed the lay of the land is very steep down toward the river.

So I don’t think it’s unusual at all if a deer was spotted up on the ridge. In my experience deer become very comfortable with human activity in surrounding areas frequented by people.

Kelsi said in the Infamous Indy podcast:

Feb 14

I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.

And when they had found the shoe they had asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing. So I yelled down and told them that.

Actually then the person that had asked that had put up their phone and saw two deer in the ground moving. And so he was looking to see what it might be, and he saw two deer standing up there, and when he saw them, he moved the camera down, and that’s when we found them.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Whoa (x 5), hold the phone for just a minute.
I think I may have misread a comment on the previous page, OR I have clearly missed something (either is possible) regarding BG...Did LE ever formally say hat BG was indeed the murderer? And/or that he was/is a POI only? Or something else entirely?

Whoever answers my questions, thank you so much for clueing me in, and not getting frustrated/annoyed with my obtuseness. I greatly appreciate your help!! <3

 

[JudgeJudi]

Whoa (x 5), hold the phone for just a minute.
I think I may have misread a comment on the previous page, OR I have clearly missed something (either is possible) regarding BG...Did LE ever formally say hat BG was indeed the murderer? And/or that he was/is a POI only? Or something else entirely?

Police released the images they say were taken straight from Libby’s cell phone, on Feb. 15, 2017 — the day after the girls’ bodies were found.

Several days later, police officially named BG as a “person of interest” in their murders. Police have only said that the video it came from captured the man telling the girls to go “down the hill” during possible “criminal activity.”

A second sketch was released at the press conference held on April 22, 2019. This person is now believed to be the main person of interest in the murders of Libby and Abby.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/three-years-later-everything-we-know-about-the-delphi-murders

 

[Yemelyan]

Whoa (x 5), hold the phone for just a minute.
I think I may have misread a comment on the previous page, OR I have clearly missed something (either is possible) regarding BG...Did LE ever formally say hat BG was indeed the murderer? And/or that he was/is a POI only? Or something else entirely?

Whoever answers my questions, thank you so much for clueing me in, and not getting frustrated/annoyed with my obtuseness. I greatly appreciate your help!! <3

If you watch the April 2019 press conference, it was very clear that LE believe the man pictured walking on the bridge is the person who murdered Abby and Libby by referring to him more than once as "the suspect" and "the person responsible" for the murder of the girls.

Here's a quote where Superintendent Carter describes the newly released audio and video information:

Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge....The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.

Source: DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights
The press conference is available to watch on youtube as well.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If I remember well, the Evansdale girls and Abby/Libby were found dead on the bank of a creek, which flows in a curve at exactly this point. So I even will take this fact (IF right) as a specialty.

I thought Libby and Abby were found about 50 or 60 feet from the creek bank, not right at the edge of the creek.


Edit: goofed something up

 

[StarryStarryNight]

How many people think more audio of the killer's voice could solve these murders?

Do you think the reason more audio hasn't been released is the quality is just not good enough being weighed against LE not wanting to release any part of the girl's voices?

I doubt we will hear any more of the audio until there hopefully is a trial.
I think the quality of the audio may be part of it especially if the phone was in Libby’s pocket for most of it.
I also think protecting the girls’ voices is a legitimate concern for the families sake and also knowing that the killer is the only one who knows what exactly the girls said once they were accosted.
Lastly, and most importantly in my view, I think the audio reveals the ruse the killer used to get the girls down the hill and to follow him. Again that is information LE absolutely does not want revealed. Only the killer knows it.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Charlot123]

ok so if I am thinking its possible to connect Evansdale with Delphi based on symmetry..then where does it fall apart?

well, here is where it falls apart.

finding the right set of victims in exactly the ideal killing space for the killer seems highly unlikely.

now in order to believe the cases are connected I have to then believe the girls were identified, stalked and also lured to the site their deaths.

not only this but suspicions on the girls lingering at the end of the bridge were explained away as there is a passing rule on the bridge that most are aware of.

but we don't really know for sure why the girls seemed to be waiting there for someone
so we can't dismiss it.

mOO

I have two versions in my mind:

- a serial killer who probably was attracted to one of the girls; in this case, most of the staging was organized around the intended victim; the girls didn't know the person, hence, no name was left on the recording.

Or:

- it was not a serial killer, the real reason was different, and the scene was made look as the act of the serial killer. The girls either did not know the person, or they did, briefly, but were scared to talk.

I also think that the LE have the DNA, and it is workable, but since GSK case, the DNA privacy laws have changed. You can not use the DNA that is not in the “comparison” pool, in court.

The killer’s relatives know.

I was thinking that RL was too old to be scared, but now I think, he was kept behind bars, probably, broken. (What happened to the judge that was admonishing him?)

 

[Rush4087]

Kelsi said in the Infamous Indy podcast:

Feb 14

I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.

And when they had found the shoe they had asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing. So I yelled down and told them that.

Actually then the person that had asked that had put up their phone and saw two deer in the ground moving. And so he was looking to see what it might be, and he saw two deer standing up there, and when he saw them, he moved the camera down, and that’s when we found them.

I've always wondered whether it was actually two deer that person saw, or just something that looked like two deer.

 

[Beachlife926]

Does anyone expect to hear anything new, that hasn’t been discussed before, on the HLN special about this case?
I’m sure I’ll probably watch it, but I can’t imagine it will be particularly enlightening.
Two hours on a case where no real information has ever been released.


Edit: typo

I just saw this advertised on CNN. I think it will bring much needed attention to the case and maybe the missing pieces needed to make an arrest

ETA: missing pieces = new tips

 

[jim lucier]

This line of reasoning could definitely be true. I've thought perhaps BG gets a thrill from being so famous, maybe even follows the case closely and gets a thrill from what he did.

JMO

This article may touch on your question: Serial Killers and the Essential Role of Fantasy

Interesting to note is this criminologist's assertion that murderers who kill for their own pleasure experience an emotional letdown after a murder, as killing never completely fulfills or lives up to the fantasy they created in their mind prior to the crime.

I think we imagine BG walking away from his crime completely satisfied with what happened (especially now evading LE for 4 years), but whether or not he was interrupted by the ringing phone or search efforts, whether or not his original plan was to get them to a vehicle, the crime may sit uneasy on him because it didn't live up to his fantasy of what it would be like. This could either drive him to offend again or like April Tinsley's killer, drive him into another pathway of offending that isn't murder.

That article is very insightful. You might also enjoy reading this new one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RLBWT4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o09?ie=UTF8&psc=1one, Guilty by Reason of Insanity: A Psychiatrist Explores the Minds of Killers - Kindle edition by Lewis Phd, Dorothy Otnow. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

 

[Ekliptika]

Whoa (x 5), hold the phone for just a minute.
I think I may have misread a comment on the previous page, OR I have clearly missed something (either is possible) regarding BG...Did LE ever formally say hat BG was indeed the murderer? And/or that he was/is a POI only? Or something else entirely?

Whoever answers my questions, thank you so much for clueing me in, and not getting frustrated/annoyed with my obtuseness. I greatly appreciate your help!! <3

I have been looking for this as Well. Not found anywhere that LE clearly States that the man on the bridge is responsible for the murders. I have seen LE comments stating that they believe the new sketch is of the person responsible for the murders, however I have not seen anywhere that LE States that the new sketch is believed to be the person on the bridge with the girls.
Disclaimer though, I have not read, seen or heard every comment LE has made on this case, so might have missed something and I am not native English speaker, so may miss what is being Said between the Lines.

 

[Ekliptika]

I would like to know if LE assumes that the new sketch of the younger guy is the person in Libby’s video.

 

[Justice101]

The only way this case is ever solved, just my opinion:

1) Killer confesses.....will never happen
2) Family or friends call him in....20% chance of happening
3) Killer strikes again....25% chance
4) DNA match....5% chance
5) Tough persistent police work....50% chance
6) Independent investigators....45% chance
7) Release of more information results in tip....80%

Here's my opinion...
1) Killer confesses.....will never happen 0%
2) Family or friends call him in....20% chance of happening
3) Killer strikes again....40% chance
4) DNA match....5% chance
5) Tough persistent police work....50% chance
6) Independent investigators....20% chance
7) Release of more information results in tip....20%

 

[Ravenmoon]

How many people think more audio of the killer's voice could solve these murders?

Do you think the reason more audio hasn't been released is the quality is just not good enough being weighed against LE not wanting to release any part of the girl's voices?

I think that releasing more audio COULD help solve the case.
The only reasons that I can think of for them NOT to release more audio:

1) There is no more available that has BG's voice.
And/or
2)There are terrible things caught on the audio that would serve no purpose in releasing them to the public.
And/or
3) There is audio that "gives up" certain elements of the crime that LE are relying on in order to gain conviction. This evidence may be one of the few things they hold on to as motive or identity.

*It feels like number 3 may no longer be valid to keep from the public if they are at a standstill and are no longer progressing. IMO*

MOO JMO AMOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

ok so if I am thinking its possible to connect Evansdale with Delphi based on symmetry..then where does it fall apart?

well, here is where it falls apart.

finding the right set of victims in exactly the ideal killing space for the killer seems highly unlikely.

now in order to believe the cases are connected I have to then believe the girls were identified, stalked and also lured to the site their deaths.

not only this but suspicions on the girls lingering at the end of the bridge were explained away as there is a passing rule on the bridge that most are aware of.

but we don't really know for sure why the girls seemed to be waiting there for someone
so we can't dismiss it.

mOO

MOO:

The trail ends at the point of bridge they stood on. This individual made them uncomfortable. They chose to let him pass rather than try to go "around" him.
If they already had a bad vibe from him trying to walk around him probably really unnerved them.
I believe that the time he approached them was speculated as being around2:30.
They knew DG would be at the trail head around3PM.
Certainly, once he passed them, and they made their journey back, the time would line up.
Also, keep in mind this was the first time Abby had crossed the bridge. She may have been frightened to cross again, and could have been procrastinating.

MOO JMO AMOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I doubt we will hear any more of the audio until there hopefully is a trial.
I think the quality of the audio may be part of it especially if the phone was in Libby’s pocket for most of it.
I also think protecting the girls’ voices is a legitimate concern for the families sake and also knowing that the killer is the only one who knows what exactly the girls said once they were accosted.
Lastly, and most importantly in my view, I think the audio reveals the ruse the killer used to get the girls down the hill and to follow him. Again that is information LE absolutely does not want revealed. Only the killer knows it.
Just my thoughts.

All of this, agreed. And with the post that made similar points from @Ravenmoon

If you listen to the interview with Sgt. Kim Riley on the podcast Down the Hill, he answers the interviewer's questions about the recording very carefully. He says he has heard the recording. It has things on it that are upsetting from the standpoint of hearing ONE of the girls' reaction to what is happening - and he adds "but I don't want to say which one." As a parent himself, he was highly affected and saddened.

I don't think the public has any right to hear the girls' expressions of extreme fear and grief if that's the remainder of the recording.

 

[JnRyan]

Is this what you were looking for?

Article dated Feb 12, 2019

Holeman confirms, “There’s a lot of false information out there”. “Social media, although not new… does impede our investigation. Like when people put up side-by-side photos of innocent people—or, at least, people with no ties to the state of Indiana or Delphi—which creates false [information]. People believe it [though] because it’s on the internet.”

And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube re-enactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Yes, that's it. Thanks. It would seem that the CrimeDoor might be doing something that ISP considers counter-productive.

 

[BigTexas]

I doubt that they will ever release any new information or clues or anything. MOO

 

[cujenn81]

As We Approach the Four-Year Anniversary of the Abby and Libby Murder Investigation