Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[StarryStarryNight]

BBM

I just thought about this detail this morning! I don't see how releasing that information (if they have it) could be particularly damaging to the case. Other details that could potentially jar someone's memory include personal effects that were taken from the girls or items that were left behind by the suspect (if there were any). If a specific weapon was used (like a knife, for example), I think releasing that specific information to the public (using the same knife example, was it a paring knife, butcher knife, serrated knife, hunting knife, whatever...) could very well result in LE receiving that one tip they need to solve the case. It might trigger a thought in Peggy Sue like "you know what... my cousin Billy Bob had a hunting knife that he was always messing around with but I haven't seen him with it in a few years... now that I think about it... and he does talk about this case a lot and has been known to hang around those trails down there."

Exactly!

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I’ve made mention in regard to the two different looking sketches, but IMO, the renditions were products of two different witnesses to BG’s appearance. Many things could factor in the contrast between them: talent of the police sketch artist, age of witness, proximity to BG, etc.

Remember early on, LE was looking for (information) regarding: potential hitchhiker, his bag/s, abandoned vehicle, etc. as LE believed he could be connected to this case. These inquiries are no longer sought.

Is it possible “First Sketch” was an actual person in the vicinity who was located and cleared by police — along with all the inquiries noted above? His sketch and video footage are simply not comparable, IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

When this case is solved, we're going to break Websleuths! Ive been around fr a few other huge cases but this one will be unlike anything we've seen before. I pray its soon.

If/when the case is solved, we should celebrate! Send Tricia a case of .. treats of her choice, and maybe have a podcast where we could call and express our joy. Has it ever happened here?

 

[Spartygirl]

HLN preview for Sunday/Monday night show for Libby and Abby.
Not sure if this has been posted yet as I am just catching up but thought I would share.

Watch | Facebook

 

[TheVisual]

HLN preview for Sunday/Monday night show for Libby and Abby.
Not sure if this has been posted yet as I am just catching up but thought I would share.

Watch | Facebook

I believe this show isn't until Feb.14/15

 

[Silver_produce0]

Is it possible “First Sketch” was an actual person in the vicinity who was located and cleared by police — along with all the inquiries noted above? His sketch and video footage are simply not comparable, IMO.

RSBM

I’d have to dig to find the article, and you’d have to ignore Leazenby and Carter making statements that contradict it, but it was reported to be the case- that old BG and young BG are not different representations of the same person but TWO different people, and old BG is not a person of interest at this time.
<modsnip>

Who knows... Old BG could be the source of the young BG sketch.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

BBM

I just thought about this detail this morning! I don't see how releasing that information (if they have it) could be particularly damaging to the case. Other details that could potentially jar someone's memory include personal effects that were taken from the girls or items that were left behind by the suspect (if there were any). If a specific weapon was used (like a knife, for example), I think releasing that specific information to the public (using the same knife example, was it a paring knife, butcher knife, serrated knife, hunting knife, whatever...) could very well result in LE receiving that one tip they need to solve the case. It might trigger a thought in Peggy Sue like "you know what... my cousin Billy Bob had a hunting knife that he was always messing around with but I haven't seen him with it in a few years... now that I think about it... and he does talk about this case a lot and has been known to hang around those trails down there."

I would be interested to know, if the killer left something behind. I'm curious, whether one can draw conclusions from it .....
Of course, it maybe not sure, who left something behind, if there was an object at the crime scene or near the crime scene. Also it will be, that the killer wasn't so stupid to leave something there, which could identify him directly. But if you have a certain poi/2 pois, perhaps there would be a tiny suitable puzzle piece.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

again .. this is a controversial topic ... giving assistance of sorts is not called working on the case. in my humble opinion
this is not a federal case so we can say the fbi def worked on it .

What is a case called (federal??), when there are billboards in 46 states, searching for the perp? And when/if the case was called "kidnapping" (or abduction?) besides the double murder? - I need help to understand well.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

What is a case called (federal??), when there are billboards in 46 states, searching for the perp? And when/if the case was called "kidnapping" (or abduction?) besides the double murder? - I need help to understand well.

From a little quick research, FBI has jurisdiction or is involved in homicide investigations in these situations:
...murder on federal property
...hate crimes, civil rights violations, federally insured banks, kidnap victims taken across state lines,
...federally elected or appointed officials
...federal judges and law enforcement
....organized crime and drug trafficking
...Court officer or juror during a trial
...violent crime against interstate travelers and serial killers
...interstate commerce and murder for hire
...local LE can request assistance from FBI on local cases

My guess is the FBI was called in to assist. I also think early on there was a feeling this could be a serial killer or at least a transient of some type. This also would explain the FBI’s presence and the cross country billboards.

 

[minazoe]

having enjoyed so much freedom in my era, even though I was a city kid , we hitchhiked , we ran wild, we panhandled ( looking ridiculous like rich kids going up to random people)..but the hippie days were so fun and innocent and kids were everywhere..every sidewalk..the whole block would be outside...kids went to stores by themselves, rode buses, travelled.

that said, many bad things happened to young girls and children and I can remember being followed home from school by random cars, driving very slowly...a kid across the street was murdered by Gacy, he just disappeared one day...so it was never really safe...these guys have always been out there, and drifters were everywhere.

now they have technology.
mOO

 

[sandy_80]

What is a case called (federal??), when there are billboards in 46 states, searching for the perp? And when/if the case was called "kidnapping" (or abduction?) besides the double murder? - I need help to understand well.

the fbi are usually concerned with crimes that are government linked or those crimes that affect more than one state like a dangerous serial killer in multiple states ...for ex the zodiac was never considered a federal case so the fbi never opened an investigation ..and this was a HUGE case..so saying the fbi are investigating delphi is not true...they can give assistance is fields if asked like looking at the crime scene ..and providing a profile

this is a local crime and the locals are in charge .. they decide what happens

 

[minazoe]

its local, until it isn't. mOO

 

[minazoe]

the only link they have to put iowa and evansdale together is the victimology and the demographic. I mean there is scant if none at all evidence in evansdale. mOO

 

[dotr]

''Who killed Libby & Abby? New tech enhancing video of final moments | COURT TV
•Feb 5, 2021''

 

[sandy_80]

if he killed before ...it wouldn't be an identical murder of 2 little girls ...
......
the choice of victims is random...

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Maybe the only explanation is there's a fracture in thought concerning that first sketch within LE?

Doug Carter caused the fracture at the last second in April 2019. It seems obvious. I don't know how that can be viewed as a scripted presser, when all evidence indicates it was scripted one way until Doug Carter didn't want to commit to the younger sketch so he freelanced the other way throughout that presser. Carter may have been influenced by Tobe Leazenby and others from the local Delphi investigation, since they now go along with Carter in the ridiculous "could be a combination" theme.

The press release simultaneous to the presser includes the shift away from the older sketch, and with the centerpiece, "We have a witness. You made mistakes," quotes from Carter. Those quotes are attributed to Carter yet he never made them during the presser itself. That is totally unprecedented. I cannot remember another example, in any realm. Somehow the media ignored the press release and those undelivered quotes...hence the theme became a scripted speech instead of a freelance betrayal of the intended direction. And once conventional wisdom gets out there it is hellish to reverse.

The clarification press release from a day or two later was instructive toward intention -- the older sketch no longer a person of interest -- but it was mostly overwhelmed by public attention toward the new sketch and toward Carter with "The Shack." Even if the FBI was wondering what the heck happened and how did we get stuck with this guy they can't make the situation worse by holding a subsequent presser emphasizing disregard that junior varsity fellow from a few days ago.

Doug Carter knows he will be remembered for this case. In his gut he doesn't believe he is seeing a young guy in Libby's video. That's why he got scared and shifted away at the last second. I don't see any other explanation. Reportedly it was the Georgia FBI and other federal types who were asked to take a look at the case when identification was not happening, to the surprise of local Delphi law enforcement. Those federal types adopted a wide scope view and favored the immediate sighting and young sketch, not the older one pieced together over 5 months. Carter and Leazenby followed the process and went along with it...until Carter as spokesman was forced to commit.

Unfortunately nobody saw the months and months of behind the scenes material and discussion that led to the younger sketch being adopted. Everyone saw Carter behind that podium.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Doug Carter caused the fracture at the last second in April 2019. It seems obvious. I don't know how that can be viewed as a scripted presser, when all evidence indicates it was scripted one way until Doug Carter didn't want to commit to the younger sketch so he freelanced the other way throughout that presser. Carter may have been influenced by Tobe Leazenby and others from the local Delphi investigation, since they now go along with Carter in the ridiculous "could be a combination" theme.

The press release simultaneous to the presser includes the shift away from the older sketch, and with the centerpiece, "We have a witness. You made mistakes," quotes from Carter. Those quotes are attributed to Carter yet he never made them during the presser itself. That is totally unprecedented. I cannot remember another example, in any realm. Somehow the media ignored the press release and those undelivered quotes...hence the theme became a scripted speech instead of a freelance betrayal of the intended direction. And once conventional wisdom gets out there it is hellish to reverse.

The clarification press release from a day or two later was instructive toward intention -- the older sketch no longer a person of interest -- but it was mostly overwhelmed by public attention toward the new sketch and toward Carter with "The Shack." Even if the FBI was wondering what the heck happened and how did we get stuck with this guy they can't make the situation worse by holding a subsequent presser emphasizing disregard that junior varsity fellow from a few days ago.

Doug Carter knows he will be remembered for this case. In his gut he doesn't believe he is seeing a young guy in Libby's video. That's why he got scared and shifted away at the last second. I don't see any other explanation. Reportedly it was the Georgia FBI and other federal types who were asked to take a look at the case when identification was not happening, to the surprise of local Delphi law enforcement. Those federal types adopted a wide scope view and favored the immediate sighting and young sketch, not the older one pieced together over 5 months. Carter and Leazenby followed the process and went along with it...until Carter as spokesman was forced to commit.

Unfortunately nobody saw the months and months of behind the scenes material and discussion that led to the younger sketch being adopted. Everyone saw Carter behind that podium.

I can buy this. It explains a lot of the head scratching things that came out of that press conference.
The question now is...how is LE investigating this case? Are half of them taking the FBI idea route, including young guy sketch, and half taking the Carter idea route and sticking with the old guy sketch?
And what do each of those ideas bring along with them besides the different sketches.
Is there any way to wrest this case from local and state control and let the FBI take over?
Lastly, any chance this ever gets solved if LE can’t agree on what the heck they are looking for?

 

[Charlot123]

if he killed before ...it wouldn't be an identical murder of 2 little girls ...
......
the choice of victims is random...

Or the girls were not even his victims of choice, age- and looks-wise, but it was the closest he could get to his image? We, really, don't know when and where he used to kill. If he killed.

 

[JnRyan]

Doug Carter caused the fracture at the last second in April 2019. It seems obvious. I don't know how that can be viewed as a scripted presser, when all evidence indicates it was scripted one way until Doug Carter didn't want to commit to the younger sketch so he freelanced the other way throughout that presser. Carter may have been influenced by Tobe Leazenby and others from the local Delphi investigation, since they now go along with Carter in the ridiculous "could be a combination" theme.

The press release simultaneous to the presser includes the shift away from the older sketch, and with the centerpiece, "We have a witness. You made mistakes," quotes from Carter. Those quotes are attributed to Carter yet he never made them during the presser itself. That is totally unprecedented. I cannot remember another example, in any realm. Somehow the media ignored the press release and those undelivered quotes...hence the theme became a scripted speech instead of a freelance betrayal of the intended direction. And once conventional wisdom gets out there it is hellish to reverse.

The clarification press release from a day or two later was instructive toward intention -- the older sketch no longer a person of interest -- but it was mostly overwhelmed by public attention toward the new sketch and toward Carter with "The Shack." Even if the FBI was wondering what the heck happened and how did we get stuck with this guy they can't make the situation worse by holding a subsequent presser emphasizing disregard that junior varsity fellow from a few days ago.

Doug Carter knows he will be remembered for this case. In his gut he doesn't believe he is seeing a young guy in Libby's video. That's why he got scared and shifted away at the last second. I don't see any other explanation. Reportedly it was the Georgia FBI and other federal types who were asked to take a look at the case when identification was not happening, to the surprise of local Delphi law enforcement. Those federal types adopted a wide scope view and favored the immediate sighting and young sketch, not the older one pieced together over 5 months. Carter and Leazenby followed the process and went along with it...until Carter as spokesman was forced to commit.

Unfortunately nobody saw the months and months of behind the scenes material and discussion that led to the younger sketch being adopted. Everyone saw Carter behind that podium.

If you had said this in late April or early May of 2019 I would have strongly disagreed with you and called you unreasonably pessimistic. Now: Why are you so more optimistic than me?

 

[Yemelyan]

Is there any way to wrest this case from local and state control and let the FBI take over?

Respectfully snipped to address this part of your question.

Unless there's proof a federal crime has been committed, the FBI isn't going to take over a case no matter how bogged down it gets or, say, no matter what investigative incompetence occurred (I'm not suggesting that happened here).

From what we know right now, the kidnapping and murder of these two girls doesn't constitute a federal case (there may be some details we don't know that could impact this).

If a crime is committed that is a violation of local, state, and federal laws, does the FBI “take over” the investigation? — FBI.