Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[Angels27]

Just reflecting - how the opportunity given to pose questions to LE might ordinarily clarify at least some unknown aspects of this case. Instead it leaves me feeling, in general, we know even less than we thought we did.

Most likely a sting. They were probably fishing for the perp or his family members to ask questions.

 

[Blissful12]

A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

"This means the killer did something unique that was not necessary for the commission of the crime. I asked him (Ives) straight out could there have been two killers.

He said, “No, I don’t think so. This was one person.

A killer leaving at least three different signatures leads me to think there is some distinct mental illness that he would not be able to hide from others. We don’t know if these signatures were pre or postmortem. Ives said it’s not like any other crime he has been to."

This is some interesting stuff from Ives, IMO.

What if he was referring to something such as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? Maybe the crime scene was odd because there was a violent attack, but things seemed to be orderly in a way? This would certainly be a distinct mental illness, yet it would allow him to also be functional in society.
MOO

 

[Pyschsandi]

Just pasting a synopsis of an article from the US Department of Justice Library.... As time passes it seems to me everyone who is close to this case believes the perpetrator is closely aligned to the Serial Killer profile as described -

Serial Killers | Office of Justice Programs
Author - Nelson Andreu
The author, who investigated serial murders of some 50 people by 6 killers during his 20 years with the Miami Police Department (Florida), identifies similarities among those who kill multiple people who are strangers to them.

Abstract
Serial killers tend to be White males between the ages of 20 and 40, and most begin their criminal careers with petty crimes. Some typical early crimes by serial killers are the torturing of animals and arson. Serial killers frequently have low self-esteem, complicated by some type of sexual dysfunction. Many were themselves victims of sexual abuse and/or were raised in violent households. They tend to be introverted and friendless and may maintain unhealthy ties to a family member, often the mother. In nearly all the murders committed by serial killers, they are motivated by obsessive deviant sexual desires and fantasies. The critical feature of serial killers that distinguishes them from others who may harbor deviant sexual fantasies is that their imaginary scenarios must be translated into the world of real people, who become their victims. Although serial killers may seek ongoing satisfaction by replaying the scenario of a killing in their minds, sometimes using "trophies" and symbols from the victim, this eventually fuels the drive toward another killing. Serial killers generally select victims based on certain physical and/or personal characteristics that fit their fantasy victim. Still, a high priority is given to vulnerable and accessible victims. Although acting under a compulsion, serial killers are cautious in the commission of their crimes, such that there are typically no witnesses and few clues at the crime scene. In the course of committing their murders, victims become objects in a drama designed to fulfill the fantasies of the killer. This means that the serial killer has no sensitivity to or feeling for the victim.

I agree with most of the paper on serial killers although many serial killers are very charismatic and quite charming. The part where he talks about the victims being objects is so true, that’s how they can kill someone and not feel bad about it. They depersonalize the victim. I talked to a psychopath at my work one day and he couldn’t understand why his neighbors were so outraged at him for killing his dog. He claimed “it was my dog to do what I pleased”. That is how they think, it’s crazy but they think of their victims as property.

 

[Charlot123]

ok so I don't want to get too carried away with who ran where and how the abduction went down...all I can say is if you are ever in a situation like this you have to ask yourself..will he really shoot her dead right here? doesn't he have her anyway? for children this is an emotional equation that is far too difficult and thats why children are easy victims.

fight fight fight. even with a gun or a knife...and if you run...remember to serpentine!

for some reason I got this weird notion like a voice in my head...and this falls into the ( not a random killing pile)

okay here goes:

what if this crime was not sexual in nature, but was about something sexual?

mOO

I think so. It has to be something very serious to present a such threat.

 

[Charlot123]

What if he was referring to something such as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? Maybe the crime scene was odd because there was a violent attack, but things seemed to be orderly in a way? This would certainly be a distinct mental illness, yet it would allow him to also be functional in society.
MOO

I think he has OCD, but not necessarily noticeable to people. He is very perfectionistic, "do it lege artis" type, likely, gets stuck in own emotions. Might get livid with the perception of "the world is not perfect" situation.

OCD would explain religion, as religion has strong ritualistic component in it.

 

[sandy_80]

I am sorry but how could you expect anyone to actually recognize the bg in the video when you have two completely different sketches with a nonsensical age range ..if le thinks that any face and age goes with that blurry figure !

 

[Angels27]

QUESTION.

Is it legal and/or not unheard of for LE to say suspect is in one age range, knowing full well he is older? They did say he might appear younger, so this might account for some of it. Just wondering if it’s legal and/or if you’ve ever heard of that happening in other cases?

For instance - Would LE take heat if they say suspect is 18-40 knowing full well he’s in his 50’s? Or is this something they do routinely to throw perp off and maybe shake up another guy that now thinks he’s in the suspect mix?

 

[Charlot123]

I agree that anyone that could hurt two young girls has something wrong with his psyche. The three different signatures were probably part of this guys fantasy. This type of predator doesn’t wake up one day and start killing. He most likely was fantasizing about what he would like to do for years. One or both of these girls were his type in his fantasy. Something must have happened such as losing a job or problems in a relationship that made him so angry that he needed to hurt someone. He had to know the area beforehand and know that he would have privacy to do what he wanted. Most likely he has a criminal record, drugs, assault ,theft, etc... He is a very demented man but may seem quite normal if you don’t know him well.

I feel different. I suspect when he is apprehended, there will be a bag of childhood-linked psychopathology, maybe living in an affluent neighborhood with not so rich parents, etc. What I feel in his personality is stratification of people. In his mind, the girls were "expendable", sorry to use this term. It is narcissism, but very sociology-linked.

 

[Boxer]

My question is, anyone could sneak away, but they probably are not allowed to keep guns, nor carry kill kits...

Yes, but the kind of scofflaw culture Indiana is, MOO no one would report them.
MOO Indiana is unexpectedly druggie and criminal.
Extremely lenient courts, cases go on for years, get pled down.

 

[Pyschsandi]

I feel different. I suspect when he is apprehended, there will be a bag of childhood-linked psychopathology, maybe living in an affluent neighborhood with not so rich parents, etc. What I feel in his personality is stratification of people. In his mind, the girls were "expendable", sorry to use this term. It is narcissism, but very sociology-linked.

I agree that the perpetrator was narcissistic and believed the girls were expendable. People tend to form interpretations of their reality due to social interactions with their environment.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I live in a fairly small town and most people don’t walk. The people I know that walk are homeless. I don’t know much about the town of Delphi, so I don’t know if they have public transportation. I think that he had to have some kind of vehicle. My husband’s family has some land and we can drive our truck through some of it. Maybe the vehicle was parked in the woods as far as it could go in.

Living in a small town would likely require people to own a vehicle.
Access to things like groceries, doctors, etc . are often not within walking distance- add to that things and services such as doordash and instacart are not normally available either.

So, in that respect, I can see why people don't walk to the places that they need or want to visit.

I feel that the murderer in this case left the Crime scene on foot. The area is densely wooded and he could have been undetected -and 5 or 6 miles from the scene in an hour and a half easily. That is if he walked and didn't run.

This adds to my feeling that he is local. He knows the area, the woods, the snowbirds homes, the farmland, etc. like the back of his hand.

This also adds to my feeling that he is young and strong. He is physically fit.

He could have ditched certain clothing and/ or objects somewhere along the way. LE has alluded to the fact that with the overwhelming size of the crime scene itself, it is possible to have missed certain things..now - add to that a trail leading back to wherever this person lives or chose to hide. We are talking about a HUGE area that has not likely been scoured, if at all searched to begin with. Another link to this- is TL's voiced regret of turning away search dogs.

Of course, this is my opinion. I do feel it is a pretty plausible one. It kind of connects some of things being said by TL and others as of late.

MOO JMO AMOO

 

[GreyGardens]

A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

"This means the killer did something unique that was not necessary for the commission of the crime. I asked him (Ives) straight out could there have been two killers.

He said, “No, I don’t think so. This was one person.

A killer leaving at least three different signatures leads me to think there is some distinct mental illness that he would not be able to hide from others. We don’t know if these signatures were pre or postmortem. Ives said it’s not like any other crime he has been to."

This is some interesting stuff from Ives, IMO.

What if he was referring to something such as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? Maybe the crime scene was odd because there was a violent attack, but things seemed to be orderly in a way? This would certainly be a distinct mental illness, yet it would allow him to also be functional in society.
MOO

I just read the article (it is very good), but wanted to clarify Ives did not speculate about the killer having a "distinct mental illness he would not be able to hide from others" - that was the writer adding in her own thoughts. There is a missing quotation mark here (probably accidentally got lost when pasting it here) that is in the original article. It got me excited for a second because I thought that was a pretty big thing for Ives to say, especially about it being noticeable to others, but yeah, it was the writer.

It reads-

He said, “No, I don’t think so. This was one person.” <--end quotation mark

A killer leaving at least three different signatures leads me to think there is some distinct mental illness that he would not be able to hide from others. We don’t know if these signatures were pre or postmortem.

Ives said it’s not like any other crime he has been to.

 

[Pyschsandi]

I just read the article (it is very good), but wanted to clarify Ives did not speculate about the killer having a "distinct mental illness he would not be able to hide from others" - that was the writer adding in her own thoughts. There is a missing quotation mark here (probably accidentally got lost when pasting it here) that is in the original article. It got me excited for a second because I thought that was a pretty big thing for Ives to say, especially about it being noticeable to others, but yeah, it was the writer.

It reads-

He said, “No, I don’t think so. This was one person.” <--end quotation mark

A killer leaving at least three different signatures leads me to think there is some distinct mental illness that he would not be able to hide from others. We don’t know if these signatures were pre or postmortem.

Ives said it’s not like any other crime he has been to.

In my opinion the man has some type of issues, but may be able to hide them from people that aren’t close to him. I remember one of the books I read by an FBI profiler saying that a killer tends to have what he called “leakage”. The killer may abuse drugs or alcohol and may lash out at people that are close to him.

 

[MistyWaters]

I am sorry but how could you expect anyone to actually recognize the bg in the video when you have two completely different sketches with a nonsensical age range ..if le thinks that any face and age goes with that blurry figure !

I don’t think it’s enough for a stranger to ‘recognize’ another stranger...but for somebody who knows this person, particularly if any sort of suspicious behaviour stands out, yes I believe the video and photos could be very helpful. Can’t blame LE for trying. They’ve have never said “don’t bother us if you think the suspect looks nothing like the man on the bridge”. It appears to me they’ve been open to all tips throughout, all 50,000 or so.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Hi, where did you see that BG went past other young people? Sorry, but I missed that news I guess. Did he talk to them? I thought we weren’t sure if anyone else saw him that day.

The witness that helped provide the sketch.
How else would she know what he looked like if he had not walked past her ?? She may have been with others or on other person although we do not know, but still, why pass her by and go for Abby and Libby ??

"He said the sketch is “an artist’s composite of the information” collected by all agencies involved in the investigation. Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color.
Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths (apnews.com)

 

[MistyWaters]

The witness that helped provide the sketch.
How else would she know what he looked like if he had not walked past her ?? She may have been with others or on other person although we do not know, but still, why pass her by and go for Abby and Libby ??

"He said the sketch is “an artist’s composite of the information” collected by all agencies involved in the investigation. Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color.
Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths (apnews.com)

This link pertains to the release of the first sketch, the older guy, July, 2017.

 

[Yemelyan]

I just read the article (it is very good), but wanted to clarify Ives did not speculate about the killer having a "distinct mental illness he would not be able to hide from others" - that was the writer adding in her own thoughts. There is a missing quotation mark here (probably accidentally got lost when pasting it here) that is in the original article. It got me excited for a second because I thought that was a pretty big thing for Ives to say, especially about it being noticeable to others, but yeah, it was the writer.

It reads-

He said, “No, I don’t think so. This was one person.” <--end quotation mark

A killer leaving at least three different signatures leads me to think there is some distinct mental illness that he would not be able to hide from others. We don’t know if these signatures were pre or postmortem.

Ives said it’s not like any other crime he has been to.

Thanks for pointing this out. I felt that the article had a few errors. Another one I noticed was that it said the girls were found 50 feet from the Monon High Bridge Trail. Surely the author meant to say, "banks of Deer Creek" instead.

 

[marisab67]

No, I don’t think so. The topic of “strange” or “creepy” man or guy arises regularly about every two weeks or so and in all this time I haven’t noticed anyone linking a source to prove those words were directly spoken by one of the girls.

I may be miss remembering this but I feel like Becky and Grey Hughes were doing some sort of Q&A and she said that they had listened to the tape and that was on it. It was a few years ago I am guessing right before the 2019 press conference.
I want to say they were actually sitting together and it wasn’t a Skype or whatever we used before Zoom.

 

[marisab67]

No, I don’t think so. The topic of “strange” or “creepy” man or guy arises regularly about every two weeks or so and in all this time I haven’t noticed anyone linking a source to prove those words were directly spoken by one of the girls.

I may be miss remembering this but I feel like Becky and Grey Hughes were doing some sort of Q&A and she said that they had listened to the tape and that was on it. It was a few years ago I am guessing right before the 2019 press conference.
I want to say they were actually sitting together and it wasn’t a Skype or whatever we used before Zoom.

 

[TheVisual]

Good question. A person must be clear in terms of the terrain, and the layout of the area. The cemetery, crime scene, and beginning of the trail before reaching the bridge are all on the same side of deer creek. I don't think he crossed the creek to get to the trail.

Access to the beginning of the trail, the part prior to reaching the bridge, could be made, under wooded cover I would add, directly from the cemetery without crossing the creek. It's a straight shot. It is in this part of the woods that I've often thought a decent view of the trail leading to the bridge, and the bridge itself, could be achieved.

Agreed. thought this from the beginning.. He could have left the cemetery at the back, walked up through the trees and met the trail Abby and Libby came in on. Possibly even further than that and made it to the main trail that led to the bridge. JMO