Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[photographer4]

oh yes I guess, I shouldn't have thrown it out..I don't believe they know him or that he is related to them.. but I think that they could be known to him, that he knows who they are...or he could be an associate of people known to the girls.

and because of evansdale and the uncanny similarities of the victims, I question how random this crime actually is...

just to clarify. mOO

But in the Evansdale case, the girls were taken to a second location, quite a distance from where their bikes were found, no? That doesn't fit with this crime. These girls were taken across a creek, to a crime scene that may have had some unusual features before the crimes happened at all. I'm pointing this out as one of the LE actually was in the media asking for pictures of the area that people had so they could determine what they had going on out there (loosely paraphrased).

I don't recall them asking for pics of the crime scene prior to the crime at all in the Evansdale case, do you?

 

[minazoe]

well, in my mind all four girls were abducted and taken to a second location, found dead by a bridge.

in the Evansdale case there was no crime scene as the bodies were completely decomposed when they were found and in the outdoor environment , no usable evidence.

Im not convinced that he didn't stalk them prior to making his move in the park...

mOO

 

[TL4S]

But in the Evansdale case, the girls were taken to a second location, quite a distance from where their bikes were found, no? That doesn't fit with this crime. These girls were taken across a creek, to a crime scene that may have had some unusual features before the crimes happened at all. I'm pointing this out as one of the LE actually was in the media asking for pictures of the area that people had so they could determine what they had going on out there (loosely paraphrased).

I don't recall them asking for pics of the crime scene prior to the crime at all in the Evansdale case, do you?

I think LE was maybe just hoping for photographic evidence of the girls, or the killer, to help with the timeline of the crime and/or identification of the killer. Jmo.

Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing | Fox 59
Officers are asking anyone who may have taken pictures in the area or was just on the trail to contact authorities immediately.

 

[photographer4]

well, in my mind all four girls were abducted and taken to a second location, found dead by a bridge.

in the Evansdale case there was no crime scene as the bodies were completely decomposed when they were found and in the outdoor environment , no usable evidence.

Im not convinced that he didn't stalk them prior to making his move in the park...

mOO

In Evansdale, the killer(s) took some sort of pains to place the bodies somewhere remote though, no? They knew the girls were unlikely to be found anytime soon... unless by pure coincidence. In Delphi, the killer had to have known that someone was going to be looking for the girls, and he could probably have figured out that people would be looking by that evening at the latest, nearest to where they were last seen / dropped off / meant to be. With that in mind, he killed the girls in a place where he was sure they'd be found fairly soon after death. He arranged it that way to shock people. He didn't hide them. He LEFT them where they were found. That's quite different than Evansdale (to me anyhow).

That said, he quite probably could have stalked them at some point before the murders. He may have been watching one or both for days or weeks. Online, in person, who knows. Have you ever read the book "You" or watched the show on Netflix? The killer in that one makes it quite clear how he stalked his victims in person and online, and even befriended them prior to killing them! Its creepy!

 

[Yemelyan]

well, in my mind all four girls were abducted and taken to a second location, found dead by a bridge.

in the Evansdale case there was no crime scene as the bodies were completely decomposed when they were found and in the outdoor environment , no usable evidence.

Im not convinced that he didn't stalk them prior to making his move in the park...

mOO

This isn't meant to be nitpicking, but because you are basing one of your comparison points on this...there was no bridge in the Evansdale case near the body disposal site. It was just the floodplain of a regular creek. Though the park was called "Seven Bridges" if you look on satellite there are none actually there, certainly not anything like Delphi.

Secondly, much like Delphi, investigators have never released exactly what evidence they found at the Evansdale body disposal scene; therefore, I think it is a mistake to say that they have NO usable evidence as they could have clothing, bindings, trace evidence such as carpet/upholstery fibers, or even a murder weapon. Even though the remains were decomposed, depending on the method of their death (gun, beating, etc) investigators may know quite a bit. Though it is unlikely usable DNA evidence was recovered at the body disposal site, don't forget there was also an abduction site where their bikes and a toy purse may have been handled by the assailant (I say that based on how these items were found).

IMO the major significant feature of both crimes is that two young victims were lured by coercion and that's basically it.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I will admit I have only spent a small amount of time looking at the Evansdale case so I might be showing some ignorance here, but I just don’t see the similarities between that case and Delphi. The ages of the victims are different enough to matter. Unsupervised children vs teenagers make the kidnappings different. The Evansdale victims were missing for months and found miles away in a fairly remote nature preserve. Libby and Abby were found the next day less than a mile from where they were taken. Drugs seemed to play a major role in the investigation in Evansdale, the POIs and even the victims families. Not really the case in Delphi. The way all the dates etc all seem to fit together, backwards, forwards, whatever way is interesting but, in my opinion, just an amazing coincidence. Amazing coincidences do happen every day, this is one of them. The Evansdale victims were found in a nature preserve with the word “bridge” in it, and in Delphi there’s a bridge involved. Despite the name, I don’t think there’s a bridge in that nature preserve. I just don’t thing they are related.
Just my thoughts.

 

[minazoe]

all I see is four dead children, all female, similar in stature, similar in names, found dead in similar towns at similar locations, all four abducted all four out alone unsupervised...none of the children were on drugs. all four bodies found near a creek. ( forget bridges).

I would imagine all POI's are similar in their habits..taking the druggie angle can be a huge mistake...just because drugs are around doesn't mean pedophillia is present...doesn't mean someone is a Serial Killer..and I think this is the work of a serial killer who moves around.

mOO

 

[photographer4]

Since we're discussing it....

"We have spoken with Iowa authorities about that case just like we've spoken to so many agencies with their unsolved cases. We're simply comparing notes. At this point we do not have a connection with that case."

Also of note from the same article: "police have not made any arrests, but they do have a person they want to question"

The date of the article is March 7, 2017.

Indiana double-murder case holds similarities with Evansdale case

 

[Yemelyan]

Since we're discussing it....

"We have spoken with Iowa authorities about that case just like we've spoken to so many agencies with their unsolved cases. We're simply comparing notes. At this point we do not have a connection with that case."

Also of note from the same article: "police have not made any arrests, but they do have a person they want to question"

The date of the article is March 7, 2017.

Indiana double-murder case holds similarities with Evansdale case

Just speculation but I have a feeling authorities do have a handle on what the COD was for the Evansdale victims, and IMO it doesn't match what was seen in Delphi when investigators in Carroll County compared their notes. In a recent podcast, one of the Evansdale parents said that it was his understanding that LE have a COD but they have made the decision not to share with the parents exactly what it was.

 

[TL4S]

Just speculation but I have a feeling authorities do have a handle on what the COD was for the Evansdale victims, and IMO it doesn't match what was seen in Delphi when investigators in Carroll County compared their notes. In a recent podcast, one of the Evansdale parents said that it was his understanding that LE have a COD but they have made the decision not to share with the parents exactly what it was.

There used to be a 27 minute interview with JH at the bottom of this article, but I can't see it anymore.

Anyway, if memory serves, he said something like "they don't even know a cause of death in that case" referring to his discussions with Evansdale investigators. Does anyone else have a link or transcripts? It was a great interview from early on.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence | Fox 59

 

[photographer4]

I should clarify: in the quoted article, police were indicating they had someone they'd like to question regarding the Delphi murders. THat is what that quote was in reference to. Clarifying for those who haven't the time or inclination to read the actual article.

Indiana double-murder case holds similarities with Evansdale case

 

[minazoe]

I distinctly remember this..no cause of death. mOO

 

[minazoe]

In Evansdale, the killer(s) took some sort of pains to place the bodies somewhere remote though, no? They knew the girls were unlikely to be found anytime soon... unless by pure coincidence. In Delphi, the killer had to have known that someone was going to be looking for the girls, and he could probably have figured out that people would be looking by that evening at the latest, nearest to where they were last seen / dropped off / meant to be. With that in mind, he killed the girls in a place where he was sure they'd be found fairly soon after death. He arranged it that way to shock people. He didn't hide them. He LEFT them where they were found. That's quite different than Evansdale (to me anyhow).

That said, he quite probably could have stalked them at some point before the murders. He may have been watching one or both for days or weeks. Online, in person, who knows. Have you ever read the book "You" or watched the show on Netflix? The killer in that one makes it quite clear how he stalked his victims in person and online, and even befriended them prior to killing them! Its creepy!

I definitely think that the way the girls were murdered in the park was an escalation due to the killer wanting more attention and narcissistic supply, also more sadomasochistic pleasure.

mOO

 

[carbuff]

One of the things I wonder about Libby and Abby's case is whether the killer thought he was going to have more time to maybe take them somewhere else, but had to change plans when the search started so quickly.

 

[Yemelyan]

There used to be a 27 minute interview with JH at the bottom of this article, but I can't see it anymore.

Anyway, if memory serves, he said something like "they don't even know a cause of death in that case" referring to his discussions with Evansdale investigators. Does anyone else have a link or transcripts? It was a great interview from early on.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence | Fox 59

I believe that interview with JH is transcribed in the media threads.

The parent might have misspoken, but my speculation about the Evansdale COD being at least partially known to investigators (in order to be compared to Delphi) was based on an interview with Drew Collins from 2019. It was the podcast The Murder in My Family and the whole episode was devoted to this case. At minute 28:18, Collins says "After hearing what they went through, it might be worse...they (LE) haven't told me anything of what happened to them. They know but they aren't telling me." The interviewer then clarifies: "Was cause of death not determined or they chose not to release it?" Collins: "They chose not to release it."

Later in the episode he is asked about DNA and he reiterates: "They do not tell us anything about the case....Later on it will be better for the case that this stuff doesn't get out."

So you can see from these comments that they echo what we often hear from the families of the Delphi victims. LE in both cases are playing a strategy where they apparently do not reveal, even to the parents, details relating to COD or DNA.

 

[JnRyan]

There used to be a 27 minute interview with JH at the bottom of this article, but I can't see it anymore.

Anyway, if memory serves, he said something like "they don't even know a cause of death in that case" referring to his discussions with Evansdale investigators. Does anyone else have a link or transcripts? It was a great interview from early on.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence | Fox 59

In the media thread, posts 757 and 758?
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[photographer4]

Just speculation but I have a feeling authorities do have a handle on what the COD was for the Evansdale victims, and IMO it doesn't match what was seen in Delphi when investigators in Carroll County compared their notes. In a recent podcast, one of the Evansdale parents said that it was his understanding that LE have a COD but they have made the decision not to share with the parents exactly what it was.

Ok so what exactly is the point of witholding COD from parents? Could it really hinder the case for parents to know? Even if they tell people, a basic COD eg: suffocation (don't say with what), or stabbed to death (don't say with what, where or how many times)... could it REALLY hinder either case? If so, how? I'm not sure I understand exactly.

 

[JnRyan]

The Evansdale case. Crimes involving 2 children are not that common and, in fact, I thought I read that over a 30-40 year period the FBI had identified something like 15. In August of 2017, ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman states in an interview (see my post above) that they discussed the Delphi case with Iowa LE. He seems to indicate that they had to look at it due a few things being the same, but due to the condition of the bodies the Evansdale case is hard to compare to this one.

There just isn't enough in Evansdale, it seems, to rule it out as connected OR being connected. I don't know what to think about a connection, but LE seemed to believe it was worth checking out and I'm glad about that part. A 'connection' could be as simple as a copycat, though.

 

[Yemelyan]

Ok so what exactly is the point of witholding COD from parents? Could it really hinder the case for parents to know? Even if they tell people, a basic COD eg: suffocation (don't say with what), or stabbed to death (don't say with what, where or how many times)... could it REALLY hinder either case? If so, how? I'm not sure I understand exactly.

Probably just because it is human nature to talk, tell one person, then another person, then before you know it it is well known. It would be very difficult for "just the family" to know anything and keep it completely secret without slipping up. The theory is that it's easier not to tell family at all.

Edited to add, if you are really interested in why police might keep it a secret, maybe give the podcast I listed above a listen as the father of one of the Evansdale victims gives his advice for other parents going through a similar situation, tells what to expect from LE, and talks at length about why they have not been told details about evidence or COD. The same parent actually contributed to one of the Delphi podcasts as well. He was briefly interviewed and described how he reached out to the Patty family after the Delphi crime and gives the information that investigators could draw no connection between the two cases.

 

[carbuff]

LE usually looks at it from the opposite side we do. We think, "What harm could it do to release the information?" They think, "What reason is there to release information? Nobody needs to know."