Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[MistyWaters]

The only place I’ve seen it said that the shoe was found on a driveway of any kind, is in individual posts in here on WS or or other forums. Early reports always say it was found on the creek bank. When and how it morphed to the driveway, I don’t know.

I believe the source was KG but I’m not sure which podcast.

Depending on the exact location of the discovery, theres an area where the road runs very close to the creek bank. Previously discussed, this is also around the same distance as LE’s statement “1/2 mile downstream from the bridge”, as opposed to immediately south of the cemetery. Possibly the reference to where the shoe was found is one and the same but all we can do is speculate as her interviews focus on recounting her emotional shock of the girls being found dead, rather than a precise location identification.

Red - my circle
Green - road ending as a private drive, Deer Creek nearby.
Blue - private property boundaries.


Source:
Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map

 

[Jax49]

I believe the source was KG but I’m not sure which podcast.

Depending on the exact location of the discovery, theres an area where the road runs very close to the creek bank. Previously discussed, this is also around the same distance as LE’s statement “1/2 mile downstream from the bridge”, as opposed to immediately south of the cemetery. Possibly the reference to where the shoe was found is one and the same but all we can do is speculate as her interviews focus on recounting her emotional shock of the girls being found dead, rather than a precise location identification.

Red - my circle
Green - road ending as a private drive, Deer Creek nearby.
Blue - private property boundaries.

View attachment 290229
Source:
Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map

bbm

It doesn't change your point, but in the interest of accuracy the girls were found upstream, not downstream.

ollowing an extensive search, at approximately 12:15 p.m. on February 14, 2017, the bodies of the two girls were found in a wooded area near the Delphi Historic Trail, approximately one-half mile upstream from the bridge.

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

 

[Boxer]

"In the driveway" of some house it couldn't have been the crime scene on RL-land, I think, but the opposite shore/bank of Deer Creek. Is that correct or is the location "driveway" still in dispute?

The driveway is the entire road under the bridge. As the private drive bends around south along Bridge Creek it eventually becomes CR N625W at W252N.

 

[MistyWaters]

bbm

It doesn't change your point, but in the interest of accuracy the girls were found upstream, not downstream.



ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

Thank you for correcting me - definitely it was Upstream!

 

[crhedBngr]

An enabling, controlling mother who bails him out and defends his every move since he was in grade school, imo ( along with a wife who is scared of him, has put up with his abuse and the excuses of a few friends)
"Well, you know how he is!!" "That's just the way he is "

JMO from small community neighbor who was the most rudest, loudest A-hole that most people could not stand, except his enabling mother and his abused wife and 2 other neighbors who for whatever reason tolerated him..probably because they lived right next door and felt it best just to be friends with him then against him, for their safety.

THIS^^^^

JMVHO.

 

[Boxer]

An enabling, controlling mother who bails him out and defends his every move since he was in grade school, imo ( along with a wife who is scared of him, has put up with his abuse and the excuses of a few friends)
"Well, you know how he is!!" "That's just the way he is "

JMO from small community neighbor who was the most rudest, loudest A-hole that most people could not stand, except his enabling mother and his abused wife and 2 other neighbors who for whatever reason tolerated him..probably because they lived right next door and felt it best just to be friends with him then against him, for their safety.

Yes. He looks volatile, not like a man who is a recluse, like like he tells people what he thinks of everything.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

 

[Laura456]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

They were hoping a certain person would be there.

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

A suspect who looked promising but turned out to have an alibi, maybe RL

MOO JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The driveway is the entire road under the bridge. As the private drive bends around south along Bridge Creek it eventually becomes CR N625W at W252N.

Oh, that I didn't know. I imagined a driveway branching off of this "road" to a single home.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

1. To give him a chance for participating in the PC? Maybe, they knew part of his schedule and business obligations? Maybe, he even announced, that he would be present and canceled at the last moment? When he canceled the participation, DC said anyway "BG might be in this room" as if he were there, for avoiding blowing up LE's secretly knowledge?
All question marks and speculation. MOO

 

[Fika]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

1. To give him a chance for participating in the PC? Maybe, they knew part of his schedule and business obligations? Maybe, he even announced, that he would be present and canceled at the last moment? When he canceled the participation, DC said anyway "BG might be in this room" as if he were there, for avoiding blowing up LE's secretly knowledge?
All question marks and speculation. MOO

Or to send the killer into panic mode for 4 days ( it has to be extremely stressful situation without knowing what police is about to say) which would be clearly visible to people around him and generate tips about certain behaviors. Moo

 

[news buff]

Or to send the killer into panic mode for 4 days ( it has to be extremely stressful situation without knowing what police is about to say) which would be clearly visible to people around him and generate tips about certain behaviors. Moo

That is a great answer.

 

[Bluebellz]

Hello I just wanted to comment on here as I’ve recently discovered WS following the disappearance and murder of Sarah Everard in the UK- another shocking case.
When I read about Abby and Libby’s case in the news it shocked me from the outset for many reasons - especially the fact these girls captured the man on their phone and yet here we are all these years later and he has still not been identified. Through reading this forum and listening to the DTH podcast I’ve learnt more about the case though there is so much information still that we do not know. As others have said, LE must have good reason for withholding it (I hope)
I truly hope that the killer is apprehended and that these two innocent girls and their families get justice. I believe it will happen.

 

[katydid23]

Hello I just wanted to comment on here as I’ve recently discovered WS following the disappearance and murder of Sarah Everard in the UK- another shocking case.
When I read about Abby and Libby’s case in the news it shocked me from the outset for many reasons - especially the fact these girls captured the man on their phone and yet here we are all these years later and he has still not been identified. Through reading this forum and listening to the DTH podcast I’ve learnt more about the case though there is so much information still that we do not know. As others have said, LE must have good reason for withholding it (I hope)
I truly hope that the killer is apprehended and that these two innocent girls and their families get justice. I believe it will happen.

Great First post, and welcome to WS...

 

[Laura456]

At some point, it makes sense to release all info that might point the public to who the killer might have been.
Unless, of course, they already know and need evidence for court, but giving such a broad age range indicates they don't know.
Seems like this person (the suspect) might be a loner or have family who are dependent on him and will lose everything if he's arrested.
It does really irritate me when the police say they are "one tip away" from solving this case, but that tip would be the killer's name and location.

 

[stattlich1]

One tip away.

That could be a number of things. I don't think necessarily the killers name though. A tip could come from someone who the killer had mentioned some detail to. Say the killer says something to an acquaintance, like (totally made up by me, it's just an example) did they ever find where that pink bunny rabbit was from that they found at the crime scene?

And that pink bunny rabbit was one of the items found by LE but never divulged to the public. Then LE would know that the person that gave that tip had actually spoken to, and/or knows the killer.

I can think of numerous scenario's such as this. I think this is why it was stated, something akin to, 'our LE professionals will know when the right tip comes in'.

Just MOO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

I think we all pretty much agree that the press conference was tightly scripted. The seemingly obvious answer to the first question is to rile up the suspect or make sure he was there. But that would only make sense if LE had a suspect in mind. If not then who would they be observing for irritation or changes in behavior before or during the press conference? I sure thought at the time they knew who it was and this was a final push and an arrest was imminent. I was wrong. Whatever their strategy was, it failed.
Your second question was one of the most interesting statements made at that press conference I think. I remember thinking I needed to go back and comb through the early info, posts and thoughts, but I haven’t done a very good job of that, mostly because it is a huge undertaking. Maybe I’ll try to get with it now. I wonder how early in the investigation he’s talking about?

 

[MistyWaters]

I think we all pretty much agree that the press conference was tightly scripted. The seemingly obvious answer to the first question is to rile up the suspect or make sure he was there. But that would only make sense if LE had a suspect in mind. If not then who would they be observing for irritation or changes in behavior before or during the press conference? I sure thought at the time they knew who it was and this was a final push and an arrest was imminent. I was wrong. Whatever their strategy was, it failed.
Your second question was one of the most interesting statements made at that press conference I think. I remember thinking I needed to go back and comb through the early info, posts and thoughts, but I haven’t done a very good job of that, mostly because it is a huge undertaking. Maybe I’ll try to get with it now. I wonder how early in the investigation he’s talking about?

The second question regarding “on to something”......when the first sketch was released July/17 it was initially described as depicting the man on the bridge. LE surely must’ve thought they were on to something back then.

 

[photographer4]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

1. To give people notice since it was open to the public, and they were hopeful the killer would actually attend. 4 days allowed time for word to spread that some big announcement was coming, and would ensure that the perp would hear about it (if he was still somewhat local at that point or if he had ties to the area still, or was generally still following the case). 4 days. This allows time to make arrangements for work / travel. It also helps to rile up the killer if he hears about it, making any changes in his behavior / attitude / etc noticeable to those around him.

2. I think there was some evidence of interest or a theory about something at the scene at the beginning that would normally trace back to someone specific and police thought at the time that it would, and then it didn't for some reason. I think they have a decent idea of what the motive was, and what the sequence of events was at the beginning and end of the scene, but the middle is still a bit unclear perhaps? I'm basing my comment off comments made by LE in various news media, all of which has been referenced more specifically by myself and others up thread.

 

[Nancy1954]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

Whoever the MONSTER is that murdered Abby and Libby has gotten away with it for FOUR YEARS. I do not.. and have never thought that LE believed it would be so simple that he would just show up at that press conference and give himself away through acting nervous or anything of the sort. This MONSTER is cunning. I have no doubt whatsoever though that he was sitting at home watching it, safe from prying eyes. Or perhaps on a computer if there is anyone else in the home so he won't risk showing interest. I don't even think LE has anyone specifically on their radar at this time, though I hope that I am wrong.