Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[Falling Down]

I am almost through reading a book called.. 'American Predator'.. about a serial killer named Israel Keyes. What I have learned for sure from this book is that none of us know for sure exactly what/who we are dealing with here. And why should we if LE might not even know? Four years is an awfully long time in my opinion for no new information. Because LE just might not have any. Israel Keyes was an aberration, the first time LE had EVER come across a serial killer of THIS kind. So who is to say that there isn't another Israel Keyes out there? We can sit here and try to come up with any/all kinds of conjecture that we like but the bottom line is.. NOT A ONE OF US ACTUALLY KNOWS the MONSTER that we are dealing with here.

JMO

There are lots of unusual facts regarding the Delphi case, on my end it boils down to a lot of trouble the killer was willing to go through to murder, some of it having to do with the obvious recon and research he had to have done, beforehand. IK also did a lot of prep, in most of his murder adventures/fantasies.

JMO

 

[PaulaDC]

Agree with all of this.

My question is why did they leave any sound at all between guys ... DTH? They could have released it with no sound between or deleted the spaces completely.

The only reason I can come up with is they want BG to wonder and worry about what’s on the recording between the words. It’s totally possible BG was so high on adrenaline that he doesn’t remember the exact things spoken. I almost wonder if LE wanted him to worry they said something that points to his identity. For example, that guy in the blue coat or the weirdo with the funny hat.

But that doesn’t make much sense either because both AW and TL have said there’s nothing on the recording that suggests either girl knew him.

We just don’t know...

Being every other word I say is a swear word, in my head I'm thinking it could just be two words ~the f~ removed for listeners ears. Simple moo

 

[sandy_80]

I think LE has completely muddled the waters with their handling of the two sketches. If they would have stopped after saying new information has led us to believe this second sketch is the killer so forget about the first sketch, that would have been OK. But they didn’t. They have pretty much used every possible way to combine and swirl those two sketches together like a giant finger painting while at other times they have stated only the second one has any relevance.
In my opinion, the sketches themselves aren’t irrelevant, but all the confusion and backtracking and attempts to clarify by LE have made them irrelevant. That is a shame. By clearly explaining the situation with the second sketch when it was presented and putting it into context it could have mattered. Two years later after all LE has said, they don’t seem to know what the sketches mean either.
Just my thoughts.

well because they simply dont know .. they have implied they dont think anyone saw BG .. meaning they don't trust those witnesses much especially if they are contradictory ....I would call it a bad handling of witnesses as well

 

[JnRyan]

I have no doubt that when this killer is caught some of us might find out we had quite a few things right - in spite of ISP 1st Sgt Holeman says. But I also believe there is going to be some shocking revelations as well. The one I keep thinking about is that the tip, or tips, that could have led straight to the killer was there all along. In 2018, the GBI (GA Bureau of Investigation) was asked to review the case. This is the same organization that missed the tip very early on that could have cracked the nationally known Tara Grinstead case. Instead of an arrest a year or two after Tara's murder, it takes almost 12 years.
Tara Grinstead murder: Did authorities miss leads that could have potentially solved the case over a decade ago?

I would have hoped that the GBI could have had some lessons learned from Tara's case. Yet here we are 3 years later with a new sketch and one word added to the audio released.

LE tells us that we won't likely hear from them after calling in a tip. So I wonder IF that one tip has been called in and the person is "cleared" and the tipster is sitting at home thinking they've done all they can do. Or worse still, the person they tipped to LE was contacted and nothing happened and now they are in fear that the killer might find out who called in the tip. I know some believe that LE has an idea who did this and just needs more proof. I don't believe that LE has a clue at this point. However, I can't shake the feeling LE already has their one tip and just hasn't connected the dots.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have no doubt that when this killer is caught some of us might find out we had quite a few things right - in spite of ISP 1st Sgt Holeman says. But I also believe there is going to be some shocking revelations as well. The one I keep thinking about is that the tip, or tips, that could have led straight to the killer was there all along. In 2018, the GBI (GA Bureau of Investigation) was asked to review the case. This is the same organization that missed the tip very early on that could have cracked the nationally known Tara Grinstead case. Instead of an arrest a year or two after Tara's murder, it takes almost 12 years.
Tara Grinstead murder: Did authorities miss leads that could have potentially solved the case over a decade ago?

I would have hoped that the GBI could have had some lessons learned from Tara's case. Yet here we are 3 years later with a new sketch and one word added to the audio released.

LE tells us that we won't likely hear from them after calling in a tip. So I wonder IF that one tip has been called in and the person is "cleared" and the tipster is sitting at home thinking they've done all they can do. Or worse still, the person they tipped to LE was contacted and nothing happened and now they are in fear that the killer might find out who called in the tip. I know some believe that LE has an idea who did this and just needs more proof. I don't believe that LE has a clue at this point. However, I can't shake the feeling LE already has their one tip and just hasn't connected the dots.

I remember being excited when I heard Indiana LE had asked another agency to review the case, and being appalled when I heard it was GBI. Like you, I was aware they had failed miserably in the Tara Grinstead case, but living in a nearby state I knew they had messed up others too, and did not have a very good reputation at all. With 48 others to choose from, they should have been waaaay down toward the bottom of the list.
I share your concern about whether LE has, can or will recognize if that golden tip comes in. I fear that they are looking for one particular thing, and might ignore some other tip that might be helpful, but isn’t their golden tip.
In a side thought, I think LE made a big mistake early on by interviewing people about the murders and sometimes arresting those people for unrelated matters(I’m not talking about the guy who was arrested for killing his uncle or whatever it was; that was necessary). I think it caused some people to shut up.... “if I tell them what I know, they will arrest me for drug possession”. That kinda stuff. You’ve got to pick your battles. Murder investigation over shoplifting etc.

 

[JnRyan]

I remember being excited when I heard Indiana LE had asked another agency to review the case, and being appalled when I heard it was GBI. Like you, I was aware they had failed miserably in the Tara Grinstead case, but living in a nearby state I knew they had messed up others too, and did not have a very good reputation at all. With 48 others to choose from, they should have been waaaay down toward the bottom of the list.
I share your concern about whether LE has, can or will recognize if that golden tip comes in. I fear that they are looking for one particular thing, and might ignore some other tip that might be helpful, but isn’t their golden tip.
In a side thought, I think LE made a big mistake early on by interviewing people about the murders and sometimes arresting those people for unrelated matters(I’m not talking about the guy who was arrested for killing his uncle or whatever it was; that was necessary). I think it caused some people to shut up.... “if I tell them what I know, they will arrest me for drug possession”. That kinda stuff. You’ve got to pick your battles. Murder investigation over shoplifting etc.

Yes, the entire "We can't ignore other crimes..." statement after RL was arrested probably hasn't helped. And they plug along and seemingly ignore this.

In LE's defense maybe that one tip doesn't have enough detail. I know at the 2 year PC they had a list of what makes a 'good tip'. Did this emphasis stem from FBI/GBI looking at tips and saying what about this one or that one and they say it lacked detail or they couldn't ID the person in the tip?

I can just imagine a situation where someone is at a social affair and there is copious amounts of alcohol (or weed) involved and someone tells another participant, ''Yeah,that murder case in Delphi, my brother (or cousin, co-worker, etc.) recognized that person and their jacket - he's their neighbor (or co-worker, etc.)." The tip probably goes in as: "Call _____ _____ in _____. She knows someone who knows someone who recognizes the killer." To be sure this isn't unique to the Delphi case and probably happens in all cases.

The problem is this isn't a few hundred tips, but thousands. To handle the volume, LE established a task force with upwards of 100 or more investigators including borrowing LE from other local departments. (I know I read one news article where it was said other departments viewed it as an opportunity for one of their own to get some additional homicide investigation experience. ???) Another article has 11K tips in less than a month with 2K cleared: Police have cleared 2,000 tips and checked all registered sex offenders in Carroll County
LE cleared more tips in 3 weeks than some cases receive in total over a period of years. Then there is the registered sex offenders list and my last check has 46 in Carroll County so all those alibis have to be checked out as well. Between the 2K tips and 40+ RSO's that is about 100 per day on average. All those tips and velocity with which they came in has probably created a situation where it is like trying to drink from a fire hose.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
A separate thread can be set up to discuss the recent arrest but the two cases must be kept separate and discussed as separate cases unless LE indicates a connection.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Thread for recent arrest in Lafayette case: IN - Lafayette: Man arrested after missing girl found in his home

 

[BNA]

I have no doubt that when this killer is caught some of us might find out we had quite a few things right - in spite of ISP 1st Sgt Holeman says. But I also believe there is going to be some shocking revelations as well. The one I keep thinking about is that the tip, or tips, that could have led straight to the killer was there all along. In 2018, the GBI (GA Bureau of Investigation) was asked to review the case. This is the same organization that missed the tip very early on that could have cracked the nationally known Tara Grinstead case. Instead of an arrest a year or two after Tara's murder, it takes almost 12 years.
Tara Grinstead murder: Did authorities miss leads that could have potentially solved the case over a decade ago?

I would have hoped that the GBI could have had some lessons learned from Tara's case. Yet here we are 3 years later with a new sketch and one word added to the audio released.

LE tells us that we won't likely hear from them after calling in a tip. So I wonder IF that one tip has been called in and the person is "cleared" and the tipster is sitting at home thinking they've done all they can do. Or worse still, the person they tipped to LE was contacted and nothing happened and now they are in fear that the killer might find out who called in the tip. I know some believe that LE has an idea who did this and just needs more proof. I don't believe that LE has a clue at this point. However, I can't shake the feeling LE already has their one tip and just hasn't connected the dots.

I remember being excited when I heard Indiana LE had asked another agency to review the case, and being appalled when I heard it was GBI. Like you, I was aware they had failed miserably in the Tara Grinstead case, but living in a nearby state I knew they had messed up others too, and did not have a very good reputation at all. With 48 others to choose from, they should have been waaaay down toward the bottom of the list.
I share your concern about whether LE has, can or will recognize if that golden tip comes in. I fear that they are looking for one particular thing, and might ignore some other tip that might be helpful, but isn’t their golden tip.
In a side thought, I think LE made a big mistake early on by interviewing people about the murders and sometimes arresting those people for unrelated matters(I’m not talking about the guy who was arrested for killing his uncle or whatever it was; that was necessary). I think it caused some people to shut up.... “if I tell them what I know, they will arrest me for drug possession”. That kinda stuff. You’ve got to pick your battles. Murder investigation over shoplifting etc.

I've been thinking that this referral might have been political in nature.

But, beyond that, we cannot discuss politics here....and that is all I am going to say about it.

 

[Charlot123]

they do look up to other SK's and try to top them..as repugnant as IK is, he did get caught, he really screwed up and interestingly was also caught on film. the thing about him is that he did not clear up all the killings he was responsible for and also did not display his victims..( as far as we know)...I cant remember if they decided the mother daughter murdered on the parkway side by a national park picnic bench were no longer attributed to IK....I wondered a while back if Delphi could be related to the Seattle case..

moving around has long been one strategy to keep ahead of authorities.

mOO

God, we have a very suspicious area in WA, trails in Snohomish County, it has been long believed that a SK has a "lair" nearby. The only thing, the guy on the Delphi recording speaks with a typical Midwestern accent. He doesn't sound like a Seattle local, unless ISP has not correctly reconstructed who was who, and who was the guy on the recording.

 

[sandy_80]

he is not the ONE..I still firmly believe that bg is not necessarily a peado .. and that age played a different role in the murder

 

[OverTheRhine]

So in the People Investigates Delphi episode, Mike said he got his kayack out and went down the creek to look for the girls. Imagine if BG was just kayaking down the creek and saw the girls walking alone and viewed this as an opportunistic time. I used to think this was kinda far fetched, but I don't know anymore. I wonder if it's viable and if they're a lot of shallow areas that would make it difficult?

 

[TL4S]

So in the People Investigates Delphi episode, Mike said he got his kayack out and went down the creek to look for the girls. Imagine if BG was just kayaking down the creek and saw the girls walking alone and viewed this as an opportunistic time. I used to think this was kinda far fetched, but I don't know anymore. I wonder if it's viable and if they're a lot of shallow areas that would make it difficult?

I've always considered it, too. I don't think it's implausible. Jmo.

 

[Inthedetails]

So in the People Investigates Delphi episode, Mike said he got his kayack out and went down the creek to look for the girls. Imagine if BG was just kayaking down the creek and saw the girls walking alone and viewed this as an opportunistic time. I used to think this was kinda far fetched, but I don't know anymore. I wonder if it's viable and if they're a lot of shallow areas that would make it difficult?

I used to think that was far fetched too, but willing now to consider it.

I'm not a kayaking expert by any means, but in shallow water, you can get out of the kayak and guide it along without you in, or even carry it over a low-water spot.

jmo

 

[braidbold]

he is not the ONE..I still firmly believe that bg is not necessarily a peado .. and that age played a different role in the murder

I agree. I think it's much more likely that these girls were targeted because they represented a specific trauma that BG never got over. Bullying by girls around their age when BG was still in school, maybe?

 

[kai]

he is not the ONE..I still firmly believe that bg is not necessarily a peado .. and that age played a different role in the murder

Are you willing to elaborate on what you mean by "age played a different role in the murder" ? Just curious what you mean by this.

 

[Nancy1954]

Agree with all of this.

My question is why did they leave any sound at all between guys ... DTH? They could have released it with no sound between or deleted the spaces completely.

The only reason I can come up with is they want BG to wonder and worry about what’s on the recording between the words. It’s totally possible BG was so high on adrenaline that he doesn’t remember the exact things spoken. I almost wonder if LE wanted him to worry they said something that points to his identity. For example, that guy in the blue coat or the weirdo with the funny hat.

But that doesn’t make much sense either because both AW and TL have said there’s nothing on the recording that suggests either girl knew him.

We just don’t know...

Exactly, Peppery! LE could have simply left no sound between "guys and "down the hill." No one would have been the wiser. Instead we hear that sound between those words (me of shattering glass.. a different sound to others) that makes us wonder what LE was trying to hide.

JMO

 

[sandy_80]

Are you willing to elaborate on what you mean by "age played a different role in the murder" ? Just curious what you mean by this.

my hunch is that the young age of the victims wasn't so obvious at first and that it might have played a role in how the murder happened ..and how the scene was set...a reaction that I cant define was there ..it might have been extra rage or /with other things..
just a hunch

 

[kai]

my hunch is that the young age of the victims wasn't so obvious at first and that it might have played a role in how the murder happened ..and how the scene was set...a reaction that I cant define was there ..it might have been extra rage or /with other things..
just a hunch

Thanks for explaining more! That could have been, and makes sense if it's what happened.

 

[Angels Advocate]

One further thing - to me Bridge Guy behaved as if he knew he would find them there at the exact time he did.

I agree.