Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #133

[zencompass]

That's honestly what I think. I think he had set up camp in the area and just happened to come up on them. A case of being in the wrong place at the worst possible time. JMO.. I could be wrong

This does make me wonder if J.C. had set up a camp near the Monon Bridge area if he was homeless between those two jobs - the Moon Fabrication company and the next job which started in April, 2017. JMO

I found an interesting news article about a homeless man , Timothy B. Watt, who traveled throughout Indiana to raise money for the homeless.

The reporter at the beginning of the news cast (below) states that "9 Delphi charities received money" as a result of Mr. Watt's journey to raise awareness of the homeless and to raise money for them. She interviews Mr. Watt in Delphi and the news cast is around 2017 (or 2016). I will find out.

It would be interesting to find out information from Mr. Watt about the homeless situation in Delphi when he was there. In particular, where homeless persons camped out around Delphi.

Could the large wooded area on the far side of the Monon bridge have been one place? It is close to the highway and connects to other trails.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

TIM WATT (HARRY HOMELESS HIPPIE)-FORMERLY HOMELESS (DURING HIS ADVENTURE, NOW HOUSED BY HVAF)

 

[Spartygirl]

If we don’t hear anything from LE about this guy and Delphi by this time next week, we can all stand down I think.

Not sure of timeline
DN took a month or so but of course, that was LE traveling to CO also so might be less time for JBC

 

[GA_Peach]

Personally, even from the limited details I've read about this case, I would be surprised if this type of murder scene was a first offense for this killer. I struggle somewhat though to really get a feeling for just what types of offenses he might have committed. I do feel like this wasn't the first time he had killed. But I'd really like more details on this crime scene before I'd want to speculate too much further. As always, this is My Opinion Only.

In one of the very first pressers, Carter, I think, alluded to this. He said something about this probably not being BG's first time and likely won't be the last (unless caught). The word Carter used was AGAIN (something along the lines of "you will do this again"). I am going to try and find that clip.

 

[Inthedetails]

This is a very, very good post. If we want to brainstorm - what type of evidence found at the scene of a crime would be useful to a 1960s detective?

- a wallet
- clothes with some identifying mark (tshirt from a local company, etc)
- shoe prints
- fingerprints
- a weapon
- a signature tying the killer to previous crimes

What else? There’s a lot of possibilities here.

He also describes the evidence as odd....so I'm thinking it's not on a list we could easily come up with because we would think of normal things.

jmo

 

[Doghairrules]

This is a very, very good post. If we want to brainstorm - what type of evidence found at the scene of a crime would be useful to a 1960s detective?

- a wallet
- clothes with some identifying mark (tshirt from a local company, etc)
- shoe prints
- fingerprints
- a weapon
- a signature tying the killer to previous crimes

What else? There’s a lot of possibilities here.

-hair on victims that clearly doesn’t belong to them
-Something missing from the victims that is potentially a trophy kept by the killer

 

[kkdj]

MOO - JCB2 has killed whenever he has felt out of sorts and the opportunity presented itself.
He was caught in the middle of killing a 9 year old.

One has to wonder how many other times times he felt out of sorts and the opportunity presented itself.
I'll bet some rapes and unsolved murders will be solved now.

 

[Spartygirl]

Could the “signature” or thing left behind be a dog bite? Dog feces?

I am thinking more like dog hair

 

[everybodhi]

Not sure of timeline
DN took a month or so but of course, that was LE traveling to CO also so might be less time for JBC

The actual DNA match can be done in four hours but usually takes 24-72 hours
Fast forensic test can match suspects DNA with crime samples in four hours

However, backlogs, interpretation, technical review, review writing, can add weeks or months to the result.
Indiana has a turnaround time of 2-6 weeks for sex crimes and homicide.
FORENSIC TESTING TURNAROUND TIMES IN 50 STATES

 

[zencompass]

This does make me wonder if J.C. had set up a camp near the Monon Bridge area if he was homeless between those two jobs - the Moon Fabrication company and the next job which started in April, 2017. JMO

I found an interesting news article about a homeless man , Timothy B. Watt, who traveled throughout Indiana to raise money for the homeless.

The reporter at the beginning of the news cast (below) states that "9 Delphi charities received money" as a result of Mr. Watt's journey to raise awareness of the homeless and to raise money for them. She interviews Mr. Watt in Delphi and the news cast is around 2017 (or 2016). I will find out.

It would be interesting to find out information from Mr. Watt about the homeless situation in Delphi when he was there. In particular, where homeless persons camped out around Delphi.

Could the large wooded area on the far side of the Monon bridge have been one place? It is close to the highway and connects to other trails.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

TIM WATT (HARRY HOMELESS HIPPIE)-FORMERLY HOMELESS (DURING HIS ADVENTURE, NOW HOUSED BY HVAF)

I just had another thought. If J.C. had set up camp somewhere in that wooded area behind Monon bridge - there would possibly be DNA from J.C. being there.

This would have at least shown that he was in the vicinity nearby the crime scene.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

we need a timeline because a court doc I reviewed puts him in TN in 1999 after getting in trouble in IN and now I’ve gone down a whole rabbit hole of cases in TN.

Good
then follow the LE trail for Libby and Abby case ..you will see TN in there also. IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Can you post a link to the interview you are referencing in case others want to check it out?
Thanks

Why yes, of course, it's all from the podcast Down the Hill, the Robert Ives interview is the episode entitled "Signatures." The episode is about 35 minutes long and was a bombshell at the time because this interview was the first time the public heard that there were "signatures" at the Delphi crime scene.

For those who don't want to listen, there's a transcript of the Ives interview here: Delphi Murders 3 Signatures: Robert Ives Interview Transcript from 'Down the Hill' Podcast - CrimeLights

And the relevant quote where he talks about the evidence not leading to a particular person is:

"And it turned out there was no obvious suspect, and even though at the crime scene there was a lot of physical evidence of one sort or another– which would lead normally to logical paths of investigation– it never led to a particular person."

 

[kkdj]

I was thinking he spent those 13 years in prison maybe he’s not as aware as you or me that everyone over 8 has one now. Idk IMO

I think he is aware. He seemed to be at least somewhat social media savvy and played internet games. I would guess some of the games he played were with children too.
Imo he knew his way around FB and Tiktok at least, as far as social media. He admittedly spent a lot of time alone and I'll bet a lot of that time was spent perusing on social media. jmo

 

[Spartygirl]

Thank you, @ClaireNC !
:YouRock:

Ditto
thank you Claire

 

[Alethea]

Why yes, of course, it's all from the podcast Down the Hill, the Robert Ives interview is the episode entitled "Signatures." The episode is about 35 minutes long and was a bombshell at the time because this interview was the first time the public heard that there were "signatures" at the Delphi crime scene.

For those who don't want to listen, there's a transcript of the Ives interview here: Delphi Murders 3 Signatures: Robert Ives Interview Transcript from 'Down the Hill' Podcast - CrimeLights

And the relevant quote where he talks about the evidence not leading to a particular person is:

"And it turned out there was no obvious suspect, and even though at the crime scene there was a lot of physical evidence of one sort or another– which would lead normally to logical paths of investigation– it never led to a particular person."

Random late night thought: what if he used tools of some trade in the attack and left them behind. LE would see what looks like a plumbers tool bag for example and think: gotcha, just have to check the plumbers in town and we have our man. I could imagine some of those things could fit into the “odd” territory too.

Not that we’ll figure it out by guessing but it has me thinking. You’d also think if it were such a lead they would have released the information to the public, right? Or not because it would cause everyone to call in tips about their creepy dentist or carpenter.

 

[CrimeAway]

IIRC, on one of the CNN specials, LE thought the crime scene may have been somewhat compromised because searchers had been all over the woods in the dark.

I think that contamination of crime scenes happens more than it should.

Unfortunately, IMO, there are first responders, and even police officers who do not seem to understand scene control and basic forensic science principles. If prosecutors are then faced with juries who think real life is like "CSI" they face an uphill battle, IMO.

It seems that the UK police forces take scene preservation, and the collection of forensic evidence very seriously. However, I have heard rumblings from online news sources, that the forensic science services have been outsourced. I don't know much more on that, but maybe @Angleterre might be able to elaborate more.
All MOO.

Edited to fix formatting.

 

[margarita25]

Anybody know where JBC was living in 2003?

Check media thread here, not sure if answer is there (yet) - still gathering data & bringing over everyone’s posts.

 

[CrimeAway]

Reading about the alleged 1960’s serial killer John Norman Collins, it’s kind of amazing how little they had to go on back then, most of it is circumstantial.
Collins was only charged with one murder, last in a string of seven, that was tied to hair trimmings on the victim’s clothing.
He was house sitting for his uncle who was state police, they had cut the kids hair in the basement before going on vacation. Even blood evidence was only matched by type back them. Matching blood “type O” and hair analysis (used for the first time in this case) was all the hard evidence they had.
Most of the evidence was circumstantial things like witnesses saying they saw the victim on his motorcycle the last day she was seen.

Circumstantial Evidence can still be very valid, especially if there is enough of it, AND if it is specific enough to rule someone in, and others out (beyond reasonable doubt). JMO. Having DNA is obviously preferable though.

 

[GA_Peach]

Personally, even from the limited details I've read about this case, I would be surprised if this type of murder scene was a first offense for this killer. I struggle somewhat though to really get a feeling for just what types of offenses he might have committed. I do feel like this wasn't the first time he had killed. But I'd really like more details on this crime scene before I'd want to speculate too much further. As always, this is My Opinion Only.

In one of the very first pressers, Carter, I think, alluded to this. He said something about this probably not being BG's first time and likely won't be the last (unless caught). The word Carter used was AGAIN (something along the lines of "you will do this again"). I am going to try and find that clip.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please move over to Thread #134.

This thread will close in about 10 minutes.

 

[margarita25]

Quote / source

JC: “I’ve had this school boy crush on this girl since the car wash and train trussle. I’m not what she deserves but I’m trying to be something. Even if she never talks to me again, at least I’ll know I was a part. Baby. Please don’t make me keep searching for you, when I know exactly where you are. You will always be my dream girl. Can we just skip all the formalities?”