Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #136

[JnRyan]

I believe what has muddied the waters here on the infamous "couple under the bridge" is that original conversation was between Liberty's and Kelsie's father - who, according to Kelsie will not give interviews - and FSG - who, to the best of my knowledge has not done a public interview. So we have second hand information from Mike Patty to Gray Hughes. Was there a misunderstanding between MP, DG and FSG? Like the beginning of the telephone game. Did FSG say to DG "down underneath the bridge" OR simply "down at the bridge"? Gray Hughes, to the best of my knowledge, has not interviewed either of the two participants in the brief actual conversation, DG and FSG.

 

[JnRyan]

The April 2019 press conference left me with a different opinion about its effectiveness. It could end up having an undesired effect.

If LE is wrong about what they think, I think the April 2019 press conference would leave the killer realizing he got away with it. As long as he does not allow any other kids to record him on phone video, he is an unknown to LE. If the killer is in the local area, then there is always the possibility someone phones or emails the right tip. But if he is long gone from the area, then it becomes a much more difficult task to try to find someone when you do not know who you are looking for or where to start looking for them.

As the case dwindles from the public spotlight, memory will only serve to remind anyone who researches the Delphi case that LE is looking for someone who resembles the man in the second sketch between the ages of 18-40 who may appear younger than his true age. He either lives or lived, works or worked, visits or visited Delphi, Indiana in the past. This is how the case will be viewed by the public. And this is how the case investigation will progress from now on.

LE probably had to take a chance on that PC. To me, right now it appears that LE put all their money on this bet. If they were on point with the new sketch or the car at the CPS building or both then maybe this killer got shook up. OTH, if the killer is like what the comedian, Ron White, would say 'sitting naked in a beanbag chair eating Cheetos and watching TV' and knows LE is off base he is probably grinning and having another sip of beer.

 

[news buff]

I believe what has muddied the waters here on the infamous "couple under the bridge" is that original conversation was between Liberty's and Kelsie's father - who, according to Kelsie will not give interviews - and FSG - who, to the best of my knowledge has not done a public interview. So we have second hand information from Mike Patty to Gray Hughes. Was there a misunderstanding between MP, DG and FSG? Like the beginning of the telephone game. Did FSG say to DG "down underneath the bridge" OR simply "down at the bridge"? Gray Hughes, to the best of my knowledge, has not interviewed either of the two participants in the brief actual conversation, DG and FSG.

My post above was not MP, but a BP quote on Gray Hughes.

"The started up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit, he looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he thinks he started walking towards the High Bridge, he was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge and he asks him ‘Did you see a couple of girls there?’ and he said ‘No, but there's a couple down underneath.’" - Becky Patty, Timestamp 22:47, Interview with Mike And Becky Patty by Gray Hughes

 

[news buff]

I believe what has muddied the waters here on the infamous "couple under the bridge" is that original conversation was between Liberty's and Kelsie's father - who, according to Kelsie will not give interviews - and FSG - who, to the best of my knowledge has not done a public interview. So we have second hand information from Mike Patty to Gray Hughes. Was there a misunderstanding between MP, DG and FSG? Like the beginning of the telephone game. Did FSG say to DG "down underneath the bridge" OR simply "down at the bridge"? Gray Hughes, to the best of my knowledge, has not interviewed either of the two participants in the brief actual conversation, DG and FSG.

My post above was not MP, but a BP quote on Gray Hughes.

"The started up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit, he looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he thinks he started walking towards the High Bridge, he was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge and he asks him ‘Did you see a couple of girls there?’ and he said ‘No, but there's a couple down underneath.’" - Becky Patty, Timestamp 22:47, Interview with Mike And Becky Patty by Gray Hughes

 

[JnRyan]

My post above was not MP, but a BP quote on Gray Hughes.

"The started up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit, he looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he thinks he started walking towards the High Bridge, he was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge and he asks him ‘Did you see a couple of girls there?’ and he said ‘No, but there's a couple down underneath.’" - Becky Patty, Timestamp 22:47, Interview with Mike And Becky Patty by Gray Hughes

BP or MP, neither was a party to the actual conversation. It was between FSG and DG. I'd like to hear an interview with one or both, but as I said one of the two, DG, according to Kelsie, has no desire to make any public interviews or statements.

 

[news buff]

BP or MP, neither was a party to the actual conversation. It was between FSG and DG. I'd like to hear an interview with one or both, but as I said one of the two, DG, according to Kelsie, has no desire to make any public interviews or statements.

Most of what we have been given is hearsay. But we can only rely on the family or Gray Hughs by the rules.

 

[stattlich1]

"you want to know what we know"

Yep. I sure do. I'd love to know what LE knows. Wouldn't that be nice!

I have said over and over, and will repeat again. The constant discussion on this thread is so important. It keeps the memory of these girls alive, and keeps their case at the forefront of conversation. Maybe someday, soon, the answers will come.

 

[SMK777]

See, this has always been confusing to me. MP specifically asked this man about seeing “a couple of girls “. The man replies, “No, but I saw a couple down underneath.” The wording in this case baffles me A couple of what, exactly? He almost repeated MP’s question right back to him. It’s probably nothing at all, of course, just odd IMO. Idk it’s late and I’m probably just reading waaaay too much into this

It makes you wonder if they saw Libby and Abby but didn’t realize they were in distress.

 

[FromGermany1]

It makes you wonder if they saw Libby and Abby but didn’t realize they were in distress.

Rather one of the girls with BG perhaps?

 

[FromGermany1]

"you want to know what we know"

Yep. I sure do. I'd love to know what LE knows. Wouldn't that be nice!

I have said over and over, and will repeat again. The constant discussion on this thread is so important. It keeps the memory of these girls alive, and keeps their case at the forefront of conversation. Maybe someday, soon, the answers will come.

Sometimes I'm thinking, we could cut the discussion, but you are right: the case would get forgotten soon. Maybe, it's important to go on only for that?

 

[minazoe]

one other thing..Libby was big enough to appear as an older person from that view from above standing next to a 5 ft 8 male...so they could appear as a couple from the bridge looking down.

I hate thinking of this. mOO

 

[UnderstandBlue]

My interpretation is that it's a man and a woman that is also referenced by the witness here: Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Good morning everyone I apologize if I threw the discussion into chaos :/ I just find things odd about the case and probably shouldn’t look into it so deeply. ETA: Question was already asked

 

[sleuther0192837465]

It makes you wonder if they saw Libby and Abby but didn’t realize they were in distress.

Right! I mean, where is this “couple”? What did they see? Or were they actually BG, Libby or Abby? Or BG and an accomplice?

 

[MistyWaters]

So what BP says is not important? You believe anything from the families is pre-approved by law enforcement and not intended to be important? Did I understand that correctly? That would change a lot of things that have been discussed here.

Yes I firmly believe the family is withholding any important information from the public at the request of LE, if it would jeopardize the police investigation because their collaborative objective is identifying the killer. I’m not sure what you mean by that would change a lot of things that’ve been discussed here because our discussion is at best speculative.

 

[MistyWaters]

Right, the “couple arguing” might have been one or both of the girls in distress with BG. Nobody was expecting in broad daylight in the afternoon for any abduction/murder to be happening. If they heard shouting they would think it was hikers arguing.

If you can find a link for an “arguing couple” I’d appreciate it.

By best recollect is it sprung legs from totally wild speculation that the “couple” must’ve been one of the girls under the bridge with another male and an argument ensued prior to the murders.

 

[Yemelyan]

There's no reason to think that the "couple" mentioned by family on GH didn't come forward. LE doesn't usually release information about potential witnesses after the fact just so the public can know about it. I would assume that if LE are not continuing to issue appeals about it, then they are confident they've talked to the people they need to.

This article is valuable: State Police asking for public's help in Carroll County ·

In that it was based on ISP press releases and first published when police were asking anyone who was on the trails to come forward, and then was updated with more information over time.

The first appeal by ISP on February 14th was this:
We are asking for anyone to come forward with information or were in the area of the Delphi Historic Trails or Monon High Bridge that might have seen a person or persons, vehicles parked in the area or were taking pictures.

By Wednesday the 15th at 6:50 pm ISP were asking for this:

Indiana State Police have provided a photograph of a subject who was on the Delphi Historic Trails on February 13, 2017 around the time Abigail Williams and Liberty German were walking. The Indiana State Police are asking help from the public to help identify him so he can be contacted regarding what he might have seen.
Also, if you were parked at High Bridge Trail Head on February 13, 2017 between 1:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m., authorities would like to talk to you. If you can identify the subject or were parked in the lot, please contact the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department or the Delphi Police.

By Sunday, February 19th the ISP press releases no longer ask for people who were on the trails to come forward, but only ask for assistance identifying the man.

My conclusion from this is that LE were able to talk to everyone they felt they needed to....except the suspect.

JMO.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

There's no reason to think that the "couple" mentioned on GH didn't come forward. LE doesn't usually release information about potential witnesses after the fact just so the public can know about it. I would assume that if LE are not continuing to issue appeals about it, then they are confident they've talked to the people they need to.

This article is valuable: State Police asking for public's help in Carroll County ·

In that it was based on ISP press releases and first published when police were asking anyone who was on the trails to come forward, and then was updated with more information over time.

The first appeal by ISP on February 14th was this:
We are asking for anyone to come forward with information or were in the area of the Delphi Historic Trails or Monon High Bridge that might have seen a person or persons, vehicles parked in the area or were taking pictures.

By Wednesday the 15th at 6:50 pm ISP were asking for this:

Indiana State Police have provided a photograph of a subject who was on the Delphi Historic Trails on February 13, 2017 around the time Abigail Williams and Liberty German were walking. The Indiana State Police are asking help from the public to help identify him so he can be contacted regarding what he might have seen.
Also, if you were parked at High Bridge Trail Head on February 13, 2017 between 1:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m., authorities would like to talk to you. If you can identify the subject or were parked in the lot, please contact the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department or the Delphi Police.

By Sunday, February 19th the ISP press releases no longer ask for people who were on the trails to come forward, but only ask for assistance identifying the man.

My conclusion from this is that LE were able to talk to everyone they felt they needed to....except the suspect.

JMO.

I find it odd, though. There were other witnesses that we know came forward, but not this “couple”? Whatever has happened, I hope that means this “couple” know/saw something that helps with the case. MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I find it odd, though. There were other witnesses that we know came forward, but not this “couple”? Whatever has happened, I hope that means this “couple” know/saw something that helps with the case. MOO

LE cannot control if witnesses out themselves, by talking on social media or the like (which has occurred in this case, leading to some identities being known), but in this case LE have not officially confirmed much of anything about the witnesses or their identities. From LE, we've heard that at least one is a woman (the origin of the young sketch) and we've heard that the old sketch was made with input from more than one person. Other than that, they certainly haven't said who has come forward. It would be odd to me if LE announced "by the way, we found the couple you were all speculating about!" If LE aren't still issuing appeals to talk to someone, then I'd assume they have a handle on it.

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it odd, though. There were other witnesses that we know came forward, but not this “couple”? Whatever has happened, I hope that means this “couple” know/saw something that helps with the case. MOO

When you refer to coming forward, it seems there’s a tight lid over everyone with any firsthand direct or potential knowledge about that day. Neither the searcher nor search group who discovered the bodies, FSG, nor the couple, not even DG, nor people involved in creating either sketch have ever contacted the media to identify themselves and tell their story.

Not unusual though. I’d bet the killer doesn’t only want to know what LE knows, but also what other unidentified people might’ve witnessed and informed LE of. JMO