Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[infinit]

Personally I think the switch of the sketch and lines of enquiry after 2 years because someone connected to the group in someway actually offered up the info either for payment or as part of a plea deal. Take a closer look at CM originaly one of the 5 charged in the Nicole Brown murder in March 2019 he accepted a plea agreement and was released after being sentenced to time served.

My opinion only

It's an interesting theory. I'd actually think it's the other way around if it's the case and whatever has fallen down. It almost seems like at the 2 year press conference they've started acting like they should have in the first few weeks. Getting information of a suspicious vehicle out to the public and far more of what they've got with the suspect in it. Then the more recent mentions of their being touch DNA to give some confidence to anyone coming forward.

Seems like they've sat there for 2 years expecting someone to do their job for them.

JMO.

 

[keep-it-real]

It's an interesting theory. I'd actually think it's the other way around if it's the case and whatever has fallen down. It almost seems like at the 2 year press conference they've started acting like they should have in the first few weeks. Getting information of a suspicious vehicle out to the public and far more of what they've got with the suspect in it. Then the more recent mentions of their being touch DNA to give some confidence to anyone coming forward.

Seems like they've sat there for 2 years expecting someone to do their job for them.


JMO.

I think its a case of when push comes to shove.. Like I said its all very well until things dont go wrong big time. When a serious crime involves a group of people in the end they will always be out for themselves. Where does that leave LE if they have previously been involved with more than one of the members of that group... Take a look at the CM video by Open Secrets on U T*b* ... listen very carefully.

 

[Laura456]

From what I see so far its drug related and this is definately a group acting with or on behalf of a main person. Take note of what is said in LE press conferences and the audio it all points to a group. ( Im hoping to improve on the quality of the audio at some stage to post here).

What specifically at the conferences points to a group, in your opinion?

 

[infinit]

I think its a case of when push comes to shove.. Like I said its all very well until things dont go wrong big time. When a serious crime involves a group of people in the end they will always be out for themselves. Where does that leave LE if they have previously been involved with more than one of the members of that group... Take a look at the CM video by Open Secrets on U T*b* ... listen very carefully.

I do find it strange they came out with the vehicle 2 years later.

I’ve seen plenty of murder investigations where there are appeals for vehicles etc early on which turn out not to be involved. The preference always seems to be if in doubt about its involvement, get it out to the public quickly and at worst it can be excluded and the focus can be put on other leads. Dashcams were a thing in 2017, but no one has their footage 2 years later. Memories of everyday events are fickle, I’d certainly be no help 2 years later even if I noticed it at the time. A dashcam could at least give make, model and colour which starts to put a net around it.

If they've sat on that like the video for 2 years, I genuinely have no clue what they're doing.

 

[katydid23]

They're probably still winding their way through that mess.

I've gone through all the cases that I've followed since I've been here and every one has had drug involvement in one way or the other. With one exception and that is the Mollie Tibbetts murder.

Yes, but then at the end the defense threw a curve ball and tried to throw drug dealers and traffickers into the mix----thank goodness it didn't work.

 

[katydid23]

We have nothing to base accusations of JBC on, so far. Some superimpose YBG sketch on OBG and state that JBC, with his square face, looks like that combo. (I don't see it.) Then, some poorly executed tattoos of unknown age. JBC had closed his FB on that day...were he BG, he'd probably clean it first... he comes across as a guy with poor interpersonal skills desperately hoping to attract women.

Maybe the blackout should have been imposed on TL, limiting him with phrases like "no comments"? His answer, innocent per se, has created such hysteria on the internet...

JBC, IMHO, has nothing to do with the Delphi killings but is very guilty in molesting a nearly killing a 9-year old neighbor, which is enough.

Blaming the killings on him is dangerous because the moment he is convicted, too many would feel BG is behind bars, and feel safe. While IRL, BG is free to commit other crimes. JMO.

I think we have some justification for putting JBC on the hot seat for this.

He was in the area at the time, and has friends and possibly family in the surrounding area. He is a wanderer that commits various crimes while also working as a welder, to support his travels.

He came within minutes of raping and killing a young girl that he grabbed off the sidewalk in broad daylight, by luring her onto his porch. It was a brazen risky crime and he seemed to be getting off on the knowledge that the cops were outside on his block, calling her name while she was naked and chained in his basement.

They had already knocked on his door, because a neighbour saw her speaking with him---but he successfully steered the officer away and then went back to the basement to strangle and rape her. LUCKILY the cop returned when they saw that he had a criminal record.

But he is 42. This was not his first rape /abduction. It was too brazen to be the first one, imo. He just hadn't been caught before.

What is different now that got him caught? This was the first time he had his own house to live in. Before he was crashing with friends/family/girlfriends/...

So I think he had to do 'outdoor' attacks, like Delphi, where he does the deed and skedaddles. And he was a transient so he could be like a ghost.

It was only when he got his own home that he attempted to bring his victim into his basement and it was a major FAIL, Thank Goodness.

I feel like JBC is a very good suspect for this double murder. He loved to wander around bridges and rivers. He camped out under bridges and moved around like the wind. He is an opportunity predator. A brazen one that uses great force suddenly on his young victims. He fits the MO, in my opinion. JMO IMO MOO

 

[keep-it-real]

What specifically at the conferences points to a group, in your opinion?

Not wishing to clog up the thread with repeats could I ask you to look back my posts #129 and #141 in this thread

 

[Calcano]

From what I see so far its drug related and this is definately a group acting with or on behalf of a main person. Take note of what is said in LE press conferences and the audio it all points to a group. ( Im hoping to improve on the quality of the audio at some stage to post here).

Interesting theory that could certainly have a lot of layers to it. From my viewpoint, I haven't really seen anything to indicate that drugs or a group is involved. Just as I've seen nothing to definitively rule them out either. Respectfully, I don't know that there's anything left to be dissected in that audio but it never hurts to try. The version we're hearing has already been meticulously cleaned up by experts to more easily discern BG's voice. We already know that there's only moments between when BG addresses the girls with "Guys" and when he says "down the hill," because Anna Williams confirms this in an interview with Jason Herbert. AW has heard the original audio and states the gap removed/modified by LE for the public only contains a brief "teenage-like" response to BG to the effect of "what?" or "hmm?" I feel confident in saying that anything else we hear beyond those four words is just our mind playing tricks on us.

 

[Laura456]

Interesting theory that could certainly have a lot of layers to it. From my viewpoint, I haven't really seen anything to indicate that drugs or a group is involved. Just as I've seen nothing to definitively rule them out either. Respectfully, I don't know that there's anything left to be dissected in that audio but it never hurts to try. The version we're hearing has already been meticulously cleaned up by experts to more easily discern BG's voice. We already know that there's only moments between when BG addresses the girls with "Guys" and when he says "down the hill," because Anna Williams confirms this in an interview with Jason Herbert. AW has heard the original audio and states the gap removed/modified by LE for the public only contains a brief "teenage-like" response to BG to the effect of "what?" or "hmm?" I feel confident in saying that anything else we hear beyond those four words is just our mind playing tricks on us.

And if it were a group, I would expect someone from that group would have talked by now

 

[katydid23]

If it were a group, I think they would have been identified. LE spoke to everyone else that was there during that time, and there were not many other people around. Those that were have been described by others and interviewed by LE.

I don't think a group of people could have been there kidnapping the girls, without others having seen this group of people.

 

[keep-it-real]

Interesting theory that could certainly have a lot of layers to it. From my viewpoint, I haven't really seen anything to indicate that drugs or a group is involved. Just as I've seen nothing to definitively rule them out either. Respectfully, I don't know that there's anything left to be dissected in that audio but it never hurts to try. The version we're hearing has already been meticulously cleaned up by experts to more easily discern BG's voice. We already know that there's only moments between when BG addresses the girls with "Guys" and when he says "down the hill," because Anna Williams confirms this in an interview with Jason Herbert. AW has heard the original audio and states the gap removed/modified by LE for the public only contains a brief "teenage-like" response to BG to the effect of "what?" or "hmm?" I feel confident in saying that anything else we hear beyond those four words is just our mind playing tricks on us.

Thank you for being respectful in your reply. In respect of the audio opinions will differ thats understandable some people have told me that they never thought of slowing the speed of the video down to listen. Im not sure I agree with you make that LE have meticuluosly cleaned up the audio, my opinion is that it has been meticulously edited. LE are extremely careful on how they present the sketch the audio and the video to the public., and it takes care listening of what is actually beeing said. Take the Sketch we told by Dave Bursten that this is the man that killed those two little girls. But he didnt say this is BG! He said when replying to Rafeals question in open questions at the end of the conference he says We have other information that we are not sharing,keep in mind that there is a likiness of possibility of more than one person that the voice you heard is the same as this person over here ( he outstretches his hand to indicate a different place).
He then says this is all very complicated.Very involved.

There was also a question posed to him saying people have said said that that is not the voice of the person in the picture could he clarify that.. Bursten replies that could be or could not be.

It is difficult I think because they have some video footage which is inaduable and some audio without visual. But from what he says it appears they have more of both enough that they cannot pin this to one person which along with other things strengthens the argument that there is more than one person involved in this.

I was interested to read the comment one one of the members here that the audio they first heard appeared to have the rustling of leaves in which now longer is heard on the longer version. Is it possible the first version got clipped shorter when the guys was added and the first verson was the clip Anna Williams was commenting on? I really cant comment on that.

Its all interesting in is what is very complicaed and very involved case.

 

[keep-it-real]

And if it were a group, I would expect someone from that group would have talked by now

I would also look for someone who may have been in the group and has since been murdered.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I dont think LE is clueless but I think they probably find themselves in a difficult position. Their interactions like other LE all over the world has become complicated because of the way they interact with criminals to fight crime paying informants, plea deals etc. It works relatively well for both sides until things go wrong and go wrong big time.
Serious crimes and murders which involve people they have had these interactions with become 'complicated and involved' because those interactions can be used against LE when a criminal turns the tables to evade a serious crime conviction or demands the protection of the police from other criminals who commiting that although he might not be directly involved in could impliment him by the information he has passed to the police about a crime or criminal. . This is not something new.
But it creates a situation that LE refuse to allow to become public knowledge. Not only would the general look unfavourably on this but criminals would no longer come forward snitching on other criminals.

Its an unfortunate state of affairs but it is what it is .. and is a consequence of police not taking a zero approach to crime full stop!! But once you understand this it does help you when investigating and researching serious crime it takes you past the point of that 'stone wall' that many people find themselves at when they are unable to accept how LE now choose to interact with some criminals in the pursuit of information that would normally would not be available to them due to the code of silence the criminal groups operate under.

I appreciate what you’re saying.
Just my thoughts though, that I really don’t think this case is riding on LE’s relation to the criminal elements in Indiana. I do not think this case is stymied by a code of silence among criminals or LE plodding along trying to coax them to talk. That sort of thing is certainly true in other cases, and I understand that, and I accept that. But this case, I don’t think so.
This case is about a sick individual who murdered two little girls in broad daylight on a public trail. It is not about drugs or gangs. There is no connection to a wide group of people that are all trying to protect each other or save each other’s rear. There are no deals that need to be crafted. There is a reward of $325,000 and if those kinda people knew who did it they would say it, because the person who killed Abby and Libby is not part of their criminal enterprise.
LE is looking for and pleading with a friend or family member to come forward. I am sure early on they talked to informants and criminals but I think that ended long ago and probably only sporadically since then.
My original post was actually only to wonder why LE can’t clear people. Not just their own group of POIs but also the people mentioned and accused everyday on social media. That still seems pretty simple to do, so I don’t understand that.

 

[minazoe]

I might, let me look around. mOO


added...he has been on their radar...

Man arrested for kidnapping, assaulting 9-year-old may be connected to Delphi murders: sheriff | CIProud.com

 

[minazoe]

Delphi murders: Lafayette man charged in assault of 9-year-old girl being investigated in connection with Delphi murders

 

[minazoe]

duplicate

 

[Yemelyan]

Delphi murders: Lafayette man charged in assault of 9-year-old girl being investigated in connection with Delphi murders

To me this article reads as if when the reporter reached out to Leazenby in April 2021 he said "yes, we already know about him and he's on our radar." I don't see definitive information from this article that says he was on their radar prior to April 2021 or that he is a "POI" which is, as we all know, a specific term.

MOO, Leazenby was acknowledging that they had already received tips on this man but there's nothing to suggest it was prior to the crime JBC's accused of.

I understand that others' interpretation may be different.

 

[minazoe]

as a parolee with a violent history and endangering children in his past record...with a history of homelessness.. it would probably be unusual if he wasn't flagged early on just based on that alone.

 

[keep-it-real]

I appreciate what you’re saying.
Just my thoughts though, that I really don’t think this case is riding on LE’s relation to the criminal elements in Indiana. I do not think this case is stymied by a code of silence among criminals or LE plodding along trying to coax them to talk. That sort of thing is certainly true in other cases, and I understand that, and I accept that. But this case, I don’t think so.
This case is about a sick individual who murdered two little girls in broad daylight on a public trail. It is not about drugs or gangs. There is no connection to a wide group of people that are all trying to protect each other or save each other’s rear. There are no deals that need to be crafted. There is a reward of $325,000 and if those kinda people knew who did it they would say it, because the person who killed Abby and Libby is not part of their criminal enterprise.
LE is looking for and pleading with a friend or family member to come forward. I am sure early on they talked to informants and criminals but I think that ended long ago and probably only sporadically since then.
My original post was actually only to wonder why LE can’t clear people. Not just their own group of POIs but also the people mentioned and accused everyday on social media. That still seems pretty simple to do, so I don’t understand that.

$325,000 thats a huge reward he must has some pretty loyal friends and family... thats if hes got any of course

Just wondering is anyone up to speed on just how many tips have actually been to submitted to the tipline to date?

 

[Yemelyan]

$325,000 thats a huge reward he must has some pretty loyal friends and family... thats if hes got any of course

Just wondering is anyone up to speed on just how many tips have actually been to submitted to the tipline to date?

I don't think they've given an update on the total number of tips recently but in 2019 it was already over 42,000....https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/delphi-murders-over-42-000-tips-received-since-libby-abbys-death

In February 2020 they were saying they still get 4 or 5 per day. Delphi murders investigation still fueled by tips after three years

However, each time there is a new podcast, tv special, or speculation about a possible POI, I imagine the tip line goes crazy.