Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[HistoryNut]

TL was not stating the "intimidation and manipulation" words as legal charges, I know, but this is how Indiana law defines "Intimidation." Just for anyone curious...
Indiana: Statutory Criminal Law | Without My Consent
Intimidation

1. Introduction
   
   Under Indiana’s intimidation statute, an individual is prohibited from communicating with the intent to create fear of retaliation for a prior lawful act, or to force a person to engage in conduct against his or her will. Under the statute, the term “threat” is defined to include, among other things, an expression intended to “expose the person threatened to hatred, contempt, disgrace, or ridicule.” The State may be able to charge an individual with intimidation if the individual threatens to publish, or publishes, intimate photographs or videos of the victim without his or her consent as retaliation for a prior lawful act (e.g., ending a prior relationship) or forces the victim to engage in conduct against his or her will (e.g., continuing a relationship).

Wow! This definition makes me wonder if BG had something on the girls, especially considering LE’s focus on the Anthony-shots profile.

 

[AC4RD]

... 2022 will be the year the monster is finally charged and facing spending the rest of their life in jail with no possibility of parole.

Indiana has the death penalty. If there was EVER a case in which the death penalty was appropriate, it's this one. :-(

 

[carbuff]

Wow! This definition makes me wonder if BG had something on the girls, especially considering LE’s focus on the Anthony-shots profile.

Yeah, that did make me wonder.

As I said, at this point nothing would really surprise me. But that might come close.

 

[AC4RD]

It occurs to me that there MUST be some true-crime authors already working on books about the Delphi murders. I just did a quick web search for this and didn't find anything. Maybe some of you with Delphi-area connections or relatives have heard talk about any of these people visiting the Delphi area?

 

[minazoe]

writing the quintessential book on this will take a keen perspective and a great deal of devotion...no one should just "write a book" on this case...there will be many but I hope someone great will write it. Like Lawrence Schiller for Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, which for me is the most important book on JonBenet Ramsey. mOO

 

[Lavender Moon]

It was a joke. I just meant that I can't see well enough to tell what the bump is. It could be anything.

I knew you were joking. It just made me think of all the times I've read about killers enjoying a meal right after they've done their horrible deeds.

 

[gregjrichards]

Indiana has the death penalty. If there was EVER a case in which the death penalty was appropriate, it's this one. :-(

I would have no issue with BG getting put on death row because the monster absolutely deserves this punishment. You’re right Indiana does have the death penalty but nobody has been executed in Indiana since 2009. Currently there are no executions planned in the future and it is possible no other individuals will be executed in the state of Indiana in the future.

I don’t know if convicting an evil murderer and putting them on death row and for them to likely never be executed is helpful to the families of victims. If these monsters are sentenced to life without parole it means the families are spared years of uncertainty regarding whether or not the individual who murdered their loved ones will ever be executed or not. At least if they are sentenced to life without the possibility of parole and there is no possibility of appealing the sentence it brings the legal case to a conclusion and they can start the process to grieve the devastating loss of their loved ones.

 

[gregjrichards]

It occurs to me that there MUST be some true-crime authors already working on books about the Delphi murders. I just did a quick web search for this and didn't find anything. Maybe some of you with Delphi-area connections or relatives have heard talk about any of these people visiting the Delphi area?

I am certain there must be many true crime books in the works about the girls murders and I expect most of them will be released after there has hopefully been a successful conviction after a trial. No doubt cable movies will be made about the murders at some point too. I understand that many people are interested in true crime books and reading about horrendous crimes and trials like this one but the possibility of anyone profiting from the extremely tragic murders of victims like Abigail and Liberty makes me very uncomfortable.

I do not agree with movies like Chris Watts: Confessions of a killer being made and find it morally reprehensible. Personally I think the families of murder victims should be given the legal right to stop movies like this being made if they do not wish them to. Murders cause the families of the victims unimaginable suffering and pain and the devastating loss of their loved ones should not be used as a means to create entertainment for financial gain. I’m fearful that BG will gain notoriety by being given the moniker ‘The Snapchat Killer’ or something similar by the media like other murders in the past. No doubt many of these monsters get a sense of satisfaction when they are given titles like this.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to cause any offence to any true crime authors and anyone here who reads true crime books. I understand that not all true crime authors and books are the same and that books which do a thorough analysis of killers and crimes can be useful in gaining a greater insight into how these murderers think and operate. Hopefully BG will not gain notoriety for the evil crimes they have done and I hope respect will be shown to the memories of Abigail and Liberty and the tremendous suffering and loss their families feel every day.

 

[MollyDDD]

Why assume it was not seen or being hidden? I possibly see it.

Someone may have brought a dog to a murder at some point. Do you know for a fact no one has brought a dog to a murder?

There could be evidence of a dog, we don’t have a list of evidence.

Completely ruling out possibilities…seriously?

 

[Charlot123]

I remember the time when BG had everything. I saw a nebulizer, someone, a goat, someone, a respirator, someone, a dog. But to quote @MassGuy, who said, “with this, he will blend right in”.

If BG was seen by even a single witness, he looked normal enough. That means, no dogs, I think. If no one saw him, then of course, he could lure in the girls with a puppy, but that makes him even more local, i think. (And gives the topic for the conversation with the person walking the dogs, whom he saw, if that indeed happened).

Anything can be seen on that grainy photo, but his face…

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I am certain there must be many true crime books in the works about the girls murders and I expect most of them will be released after there has hopefully been a successful conviction after a trial. No doubt cable movies will be made about the murders at some point too. I understand that many people are interested in true crime books and reading about horrendous crimes and trials like this one but the possibility of anyone profiting from the extremely tragic murders of victims like Abigail and Liberty makes me very uncomfortable.

I do not agree with movies like Chris Watts: Confessions of a killer being made and find it morally reprehensible. Personally I think the families of murder victims should be given the legal right to stop movies like this being made if they do not wish them to. Murders cause the families of the victims unimaginable suffering and pain and the devastating loss of their loved ones should not be used as a means to create entertainment for financial gain. I’m fearful that BG will gain notoriety by being given the moniker ‘The Snapchat Killer’ or something similar by the media like other murders in the past. No doubt many of these monsters get a sense of satisfaction when they are given titles like this.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to cause any offence to any true crime authors and anyone here who reads true crime books. I understand that not all true crime authors and books are the same and that books which do a thorough analysis of killers and crimes can be useful in gaining a greater insight into how these murderers think and operate. Hopefully BG will not gain notoriety for the evil crimes they have done and I hope respect will be shown to the memories of Abigail and Liberty and the tremendous suffering and loss their families feel every day.

Why are people interested in reading about horrendous crimes? I seriously don’t know the answer which is why I’m asking.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I am certain there must be many true crime books in the works about the girls murders and I expect most of them will be released after there has hopefully been a successful conviction after a trial. No doubt cable movies will be made about the murders at some point too. I understand that many people are interested in true crime books and reading about horrendous crimes and trials like this one but the possibility of anyone profiting from the extremely tragic murders of victims like Abigail and Liberty makes me very uncomfortable.

I do not agree with movies like Chris Watts: Confessions of a killer being made and find it morally reprehensible. Personally I think the families of murder victims should be given the legal right to stop movies like this being made if they do not wish them to. Murders cause the families of the victims unimaginable suffering and pain and the devastating loss of their loved ones should not be used as a means to create entertainment for financial gain. I’m fearful that BG will gain notoriety by being given the moniker ‘The Snapchat Killer’ or something similar by the media like other murders in the past. No doubt many of these monsters get a sense of satisfaction when they are given titles like this.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to cause any offence to any true crime authors and anyone here who reads true crime books. I understand that not all true crime authors and books are the same and that books which do a thorough analysis of killers and crimes can be useful in gaining a greater insight into how these murderers think and operate. Hopefully BG will not gain notoriety for the evil crimes they have done and I hope respect will be shown to the memories of Abigail and Liberty and the tremendous suffering and loss their families feel every day.

Wow! I think this is the best comment I have ever read here on WS!!!
Thank you for sharing.

 

[kalvis]

I would have no issue with BG getting put on death row because the monster absolutely deserves this punishment. You’re right Indiana does have the death penalty but nobody has been executed in Indiana since 2009.

Terre Haute Indiana Federal Prison had 10 executions in 2020 and 3 in 2021. I live close to Terre Haute and remember the news talking about them.

 

[kalvis]

BOP: Federal Executions

 

[TL4S]

My thoughts this morning are on whether or not BG had a weapon. I have taken time to consider other theories, like BG using a lure, or pretending to be an authority, or having something over one of the girls, or anything other than the use of a weapon to gain control. These things should be considered when we don't know exactly what happened.

But I'm just not comfortable that a killer would risk this crime in a public place, where other people were around (albeit fairly isolated), during daylight hours, engaging two teenage girls, walking them to a separate location from the bridge (including a creek crossing), and murdering them all without the use of a weapon for control. I just can't let myself believe the "intimidation and manipulation" factor of anything less than a weapon would accomplish all of that.

I keep coming back to one of the only basic facts that we know in this case: BG cornered them at the south end of the bridge and told them "guys...down the hill." They were then killed across the creek (and yes, I still believe it could have been farther east than the spot below the cemetery, but I digress...). LE officer JH said there isn't much more that would be helpful in the audio, so there's just nothing to indicate to me that anything was said to the girls about him being an authority, or having a dog, or talking about something he has on them, or anything else. If he did, in actuality, walk right up to them at the end of the bridge and immediately order them down the hill, in the tone he did, without any kind of initial explanation to who he was, then I just cannot see it happening that way without a weapon.

Just my thoughts, of course.

 

[Charlot123]

I would have no issue with BG getting put on death row because the monster absolutely deserves this punishment. You’re right Indiana does have the death penalty but nobody has been executed in Indiana since 2009. Currently there are no executions planned in the future and it is possible no other individuals will be executed in the state of Indiana in the future.

I don’t know if convicting an evil murderer and putting them on death row and for them to likely never be executed is helpful to the families of victims. If these monsters are sentenced to life without parole it means the families are spared years of uncertainty regarding whether or not the individual who murdered their loved ones will ever be executed or not. At least if they are sentenced to life without the possibility of parole and there is no possibility of appealing the sentence it brings the legal case to a conclusion and they can start the process to grieve the devastating loss of their loved ones.

I am trying to be logical. Remembering Anna, who said something along the lines, that whatever he could, he had already taken from her, so in the big scheme of events, it may not matter what happens to him. I am not quoting verbatim, but this is how I understand it.

I am very much interested in the killer being caught, for safety, and for justice. Personally, I would also like to know what the heck was going on in his mind, how the Delphi murderer made that horrible decision, and at what step of human development prevention would still be possible?

As to capital punishment, I am for: 1) what is cheaper; 2) what would be safer for the community. Errors in the context of capital punishment are unbelievably costly, so maybe keeping him in prison for the rest of his life would suffice. JMO.

 

[carbuff]

I knew you were joking. It just made me think of all the times I've read about killers enjoying a meal right after they've done their horrible deeds.

Gotcha! Just wanted to make sure; it's so easy to misunderstand somebody when there's nothing but words on a page and most of us are coming in stressed from real life even before the strong emotions of a difficult case.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I am certain there must be many true crime books in the works about the girls murders and I expect most of them will be released after there has hopefully been a successful conviction after a trial. No doubt cable movies will be made about the murders at some point too. I understand that many people are interested in true crime books and reading about horrendous crimes and trials like this one but the possibility of anyone profiting from the extremely tragic murders of victims like Abigail and Liberty makes me very uncomfortable.

I do not agree with movies like Chris Watts: Confessions of a killer being made and find it morally reprehensible. Personally I think the families of murder victims should be given the legal right to stop movies like this being made if they do not wish them to. Murders cause the families of the victims unimaginable suffering and pain and the devastating loss of their loved ones should not be used as a means to create entertainment for financial gain. I’m fearful that BG will gain notoriety by being given the moniker ‘The Snapchat Killer’ or something similar by the media like other murders in the past. No doubt many of these monsters get a sense of satisfaction when they are given titles like this.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to cause any offence to any true crime authors and anyone here who reads true crime books. I understand that not all true crime authors and books are the same and that books which do a thorough analysis of killers and crimes can be useful in gaining a greater insight into how these murderers think and operate. Hopefully BG will not gain notoriety for the evil crimes they have done and I hope respect will be shown to the memories of Abigail and Liberty and the tremendous suffering and loss their families feel every day.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I would be against such legislation. It's my opinion that the family of victims suffer regardless. Furthermore, one can't legislate tact, compassion, or ethics. That being said, it doesn't mean I'd be supporting such a film with my money. I have no interest in seeing something like that. If one is made, I hope a portion of the proceeds go to a worthy cause, selected by the families. (MOO, we have enough legislation on the books.)

 

[HistoryNut]

My thoughts this morning are on whether or not BG had a weapon. I have taken time to consider other theories, like BG using a lure, or pretending to be an authority, or having something over one of the girls, or anything other than the use of a weapon to gain control. These things should be considered when we don't know exactly what happened.

But I'm just not comfortable that a killer would risk this crime in a public place, where other people were around (albeit fairly isolated), during daylight hours, engaging two teenage girls, walking them to a separate location from the bridge (including a creek crossing), and murdering them all without the use of a weapon for control. I just can't let myself believe the "intimidation and manipulation" factor of anything less than a weapon would accomplish all of that.

I keep coming back to one of the only basic facts that we know in this case: BG cornered them at the south end of the bridge and told them "guys...down the hill." They were then killed across the creek (and yes, I still believe it could have been farther east than the spot below the cemetery, but I digress...). LE officer JH said there isn't much more that would be helpful in the audio, so there's just nothing to indicate to me that anything was said to the girls about him being an authority, or having a dog, or talking about something he has on them, or anything else. If he did, in actuality, walk right up to them at the end of the bridge and immediately order them down the hill, in the tone he did, without any kind of initial explanation to who he was, then I just cannot see it happening that way without a weapon.

Just my thoughts, of course.

I agree with your theory. It's been reported here that one of the girl's family members heard them say, "he's got a gun" in the extended audio, and I think BG concealed it in whatever was around his waist. Like you, I cannot see the girls complying with him for any other reason. I also think he had an accomplice to help him overpower the girls. Just curious, why do you think they were killed farther away than where they were found?

 

[minazoe]

I think they were killed farther away because everything was set up away from prying eyes.
everything went as planned and this was done as part of an elaborate fantasy by a psychotic individual. mOO