Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[MistyWaters]

LE says the crime scene begins at the trail head, but we say, no, it begins on the bridge, under the bridge, across the bridge...

LE says the body location is 1/2 mile from the bridge ( or 1/4 mile walk from video location, 3/4 miles from where the girls were dropped off, and 1 mile from Freedom Bridge), but we say, no, it's only 1/8 mile or less...

LE says, through two sketches, that the suspect has reddish-brown hair, but we say, no, it's this guy with black hair, or this guy with no hair...

LE says the girls died where they were found, but we say, no, they were carried there, moved there, staged there...

LE says "The Shack" was not a hidden message, but we say, no, it was...

LE says the killer gained control through "intimidation and manipulation," but we say, no, he lured them, he tricked them...

LE says "_________" (fill in the blank), but we say, no, because GH, AG, HLN reporters, RL, or some youtuber says "________" (fill in the blank).

This is so discouraging to me.

Very true and to top it off, LE is often criticized for not releasing more information.

 

[Megnut]

I too think the girls ran across the creek trying to escape.

It's pretty plausible that he was trying to get them into a car to take them elsewhere. If that happened, they might have been found miles away, if at all.

I'm with you.

And I think there'd be virtually no leads if he'd managed to remove the girls to the ominous 'second location." Would LE have recovered Libby's phone? An item of apparel? Any sign of a scuffle?

As horrifying as this case already is, it's chilling to think he might have disappeared them forever.

IMO something crashed his plan -- IMO he overestimated himself and underestimated the girls --

JMO

 

[Snow_In _June]

But why do you think BG appeared instantly after the SC photos were taken? The time gap could’ve been 20 minutes or more. Maybe he was standing off to the side of the trails watching them take photos on the bridge for several minutes before he approached?

Because he was not in any of the photograps. behind Abby or Infront of Libby If he was LE would have let us know.

Libby Caught him on video about 60/70ft away. So suppose I ask my self where and how did he catch up with them so quickly travel the other 700 ft of the bridge without being noticed

SIJ

 

[StarryStarryNight]

its simple

If Abby was photograped by Libby and there was nothing behind Abby and Libby photograpged the South East side of the bridge and there was nothing in front. BG appeared from fgriggin nowhere. The only way he can appear from nowhere without being seen is up and through the trusses and a gap big enough. I am almost sure we have all seen the video in a previous time of a person doing this.

Yes it can be done. Most everybody is familiar with the video. A person can climb up through the spaces in the bridge, but just because it can be done doesn’t mean that’s what happened. Maybe. Maybe not.
Also if you don’t see anyone behind Abby it doesn’t mean someone did not start crossing the bridge. A photo is a moment in time. It doesn’t cover the entire time period during the commission of this crime.

 

[Megnut]

Because he was not in any of the photograps. behind Abby and Infront of Libby If he was LE would have let us know.

Libby Caught him on video about 60/70ft away. So suppose I ask my self where and how did he catch up with them so quickly travel the other 700 ft of the bridge without being noticed

SIJ

How long does it take, in general, to walk the bridge?

After Libby took the photo/s, they may have noticed him on the bridge. It might've taken a few moments for curiosity to reach peak. Curiosity. Apprehension. Whatever it was that inspired Libby to start recording.

I wonder how long she was able to record after "guys.... down the hill."

Awful, awful, awful timing if her battery gave out just then.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm with you.

And I think there'd be virtually no leads if he'd managed to remove the girls to the ominous 'second location." Would LE have recovered Libby's phone? An item of apparel? Any sign of a scuffle?

As horrifying as this case already is, it's chilling to think he might have disappeared them forever.

IMO something crashed his plan -- IMO he overestimated himself and underestimated the girls --

JMO

I agree, and as tragic as it is, the investigation is much further ahead to have their bodies as proof of a double homicide rather than trying to solve an unexplained missing persons case.

 

[MistyWaters]

How long does it take, in general, to walk the bridge?

After Libby took the photo/s, they may have noticed him on the bridge. It might've taken a few moments for curiosity to reach peak. Curiosity. Apprehension. Whatever it was that inspired Libby to start recording.

I wonder how long she was able to record after "guys.... down the hill."

Awful, awful, awful timing if her battery gave out just then.

JMO

I recall it’s said to be a 5-6 minute walk from end to end. It’s been posted in these threads many times but I don’t have a link at hand.

 

[Snow_In _June]

How long does it take, in general, to walk the bridge?

After Libby took the photo/s, they may have noticed him on the bridge. It might've taken a few moments for curiosity to reach peak. Curiosity. Apprehension. Whatever it was that inspired Libby to start recording.

I wonder how long she was able to record after "guys.... down the hill."

Awful, awful, awful timing if her battery gave out just then.

JMO

Depends who you are. Been done in approx 3 1/2 mins and a breatless wreck at the end of it or as slow as 10/12 mins taking time and being careful from what i can gather from those who have been brave enough to cross it and film it Personlly I would have to crawl on all 4s over it.

SIJ

 

[Charlot123]

1. Has T.B. been discussed as a suspect here? Convicted of another homicide which some unusual if not to say bizarre elements and pastor of a defunct church. Perhaps it is o.k. to use his name (?), not sure.

2. is a bit of inevitable dissonance on the thread I think since profilers like Kelly are allowed and yet they consider and include non WS approved sources. Not complaining about this just stating.

If one could see anything on the video, T.B. at least looks like BG.

Edit: I assume that maybe DNA ruled him out, because he hasn't been discussed recently, but as a suspect, he fits well.

 

[carbuff]

If one could see anything on the video, T.B. at least looks like BG.

Sorry, I've lost track of all the initials. Which one's TB? The guy who committed the murders in St. Louis?

 

[Snow_In _June]

Yes it can be done. Most everybody is familiar with the video. A person can climb up through the spaces in the bridge, but just because it can be done doesn’t mean that’s what happened. Maybe. Maybe not.
Also if you don’t see anyone behind Abby it doesn’t mean someone did not start crossing the bridge. A photo is a moment in time. It doesn’t cover the entire time period during the commission of this crime.

Well that is just it. If BG was approx 100ft rounding up behind Abby when the photo was taken he should be visable. He wasn't therefore he made up some ground crossing the bridge very quickly without apparently being noticed until he was only 60/70 ft away I know what I mean I am just not good at articulating it

SIJ

 

[Charlot123]

BG watching Doug Carter at April 2019 press conference. Just my thoughts.

View attachment 328286

OMG! BG - here - looks like "Karlsson who lives on the roof".

 

[minazoe]

its a funky bridge, I will tell you what..mOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Sorry, I've lost track of all the initials. Which one's TB? The guy who committed the murders in St. Louis?

Yes. Recently convicted of the crimes associated with that.

 

[OverTheRhine]

<modsnip> It was literally just a movie he watched with religious overtones that he used to appeal to the killer's conscience. The girls were a combined 300ish lb's. This guy was not just casually moving all this weight around. It's pretty obvious they were killed where they were found. Nobody is moving that much weight through that terrain. It just isn't possible. Not to mention the amount of time it would take, time someone trying to get away with murder doesn't have.

<modsnip>

 

[carbuff]

Yes. Recently convicted of the crimes associated with that.

Thanks.

I was going to say he's one of the most likely candidates, but it's been shocking to me how many potential suspects there have been, TB and JBC and DN and and and it's effing horrifying.

 

[Baneone4u]

I have a somewhat different view on this statement he made. This is only my thoughts on it. I agree with him when he emphasizes the effect it has on him. I think he was mentioning this movie to get a message to the killer to watch this movie. We can reasonably assume the offender is obsessed with all media about the case and would surely see this. If this is the case, the offender would indeed watch this movie and possibly be moved in some way. Possibly in hopes to cultivate a response from the offender to reach out to police to send a msg back or break down and show telling behaviors. I can see referencing this movie could play into many things beneficial to the case and believe this was suggested to him via. FBI profiles to mention a movie with similar parallels in a drama like context to poke a hole in the offenders pride. It may if he has remorse provoke a possible confession to a loved one. This is all my opinions but, I think this was planned and a strategic decision. I am sure it (the shack) had a profound effect on all investigators who watched it in light of this case. So what he said in podcast would in fact be true, but minimizing it's reason for it's use in statement. Keep in mind offenders are often tempted to reach out to LE and we do not know if that's happened or not. If he has or does the chances of being caught are extremely high, and higher with every contact. The religious overtones of movie and in his statements are measured. In my mind, he maybe faithful but these statements are put together very very carefully.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Well that is just it. If BG was approx 100ft rounding up behind Abby when the photo was taken he should be visable. He wasn't therefore he made up some ground crossing the bridge very quickly without apparently being noticed until he was only 60/70 ft away I know what I mean I am just not good at articulating it

SIJ

I understand what you’re talking about. It’s possible. Just me, I don’t think that happened but it’s OK to disagree.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

BG watching The Shack after Doug Carter recommended it.

 

[LeBlack]

I agree, and as tragic as it is, the investigation is much further ahead to have their bodies as proof of a double homicide rather than trying to solve an unexplained missing persons case.

Everyone that's ever been in these girls lives would have been dragged through the mud without getting any closer to the culprit. INCLUDING the girls, any actions regarding did they run away, etc etc

moo