Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

[sunshineray]

rsbm

Not trying to call you out at all, but do you have a source that first responders continued to search? It’s okay if you don’t, because it wouldn’t have done these precious girls any good.

But it’s my understanding they wished they had continued searching (and later wished they had searched more for ways the killer left the area) because they did make the assumption the girls were probably just not calling home.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

It was mentioned in the HLN Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders that the fire chief was asked to bring lights down to the area so searching could continue. IIRC it was Sheriff Leazenby who went and asked him and I believe it was because of Libby's phone still pinging. So there were still professionals searching that night, not just family and friends. I hadn't realized that until I watched this show.

Down the Hill: The Delphi Murders - CNN Video

 

[MollyDDD]

Because he thought it was true at the time.

Yes, thank you Yemelyan.

ok but just to add and be accurate..those on the scene alluded to the crime scene as something out of a horror movie..so it's not that far of a reach to imagine something with many aspects..or props. mOO

And IIRC (I may have been day dreaming) LE said the girls were “brutally murdered”. IMO, that would imply something more vicious than a single gun shot wound.
IMO, the killer have the CS already set up, props and all, as well as his escape plan. It still seems odd to me that he didn’t somehow know that they would be there. IMO

 

[Prime8]

It was mentioned in the HLN Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders that the fire chief was asked to bring lights down to the area so searching could continue. IIRC it was Sheriff Leazenby who went and asked him and I believe it was because of Libby's phone still pinging. So there were still professionals searching that night, not just family and friends. I hadn't realized that until I watched this show.

Down the Hill: The Delphi Murders - CNN Video

It's also mentioned in the HLN Down the Hill podcast and mentioned by the family in the People Magazine episode/special they did.

 

[Prime8]

And IIRC (I may have been day dreaming) LE said the girls were “brutally murdered”. IMO, that would imply something more vicious than a single gun shot wound.
IMO, the killer have the CS already set up, props and all, as well as his escape plan. It still seems odd to me that he didn’t somehow know that they would be there. IMO

ok but just to add and be accurate..those on the scene alluded to the crime scene as something out of a horror movie..so it's not that far of a reach to imagine something with many aspects..or props. mOO

Finding children murdered is horrific, it doesn't have to be more than that. Most first responders, even in a large city where they may encounter dead children more often, would find murdered children extremely traumatic.

 

[MistyWaters]

Finding children murdered is horrific, it doesn't have to be more than that. Most first responders, even in a large city where they may encounter dead children more often, would find murdered children extremely traumatic.

I completely agree, I’m sure nothing less than horrific describes such a discovery regarding murdered children regardless of the circumstances. It need not refer to anything more. I don’t think anyone would expect LE to normalize the finding of two dead teens and if they had, we’d be criticizing them for that as well. Sometimes I wonder, by extensively focusing on this case, if we become desensitized towards the human trauma which occurred after discovery of the two victims. Nobody has mentioned PTSD but it still must’ve been a horrible shock. JMO

 

[somequestions]

For a long while, I have sensed so much understandable frustration & almost a feeling of helplessness (here and elsewhere) from people who have been following this case from the beginning and from those who have joined in along the way.

There are so many posters and Moderators who bring a wealth of information about the Law, DNA, personal experience as well as wonderful ideas to these threads. People who direct us to, as well as transcribe podcasts and there are others who are so awesome about keeping the information here fact-based....and others who pull msm links out of thin air when the rest of us can't find them.

To those of you who post regularly, I appreciate each and every one of you for keeping these threads on page 1 when some of us can't be here regularly to do so ourselves.

Many of us feel we have no 'power' to do anything, but to come here and theorize or make suggestions about what we hope LE has already done or should do.

After all, it has been almost 5 very long emotional years.

It is heartbreaking to see the words 'cold case' connected with the names Abby and Libby.

We all want the person(s) who committed this crime to be arrested and have him nailed to the floor so he will never go free again.

We do have 'power' and we can make a difference though.

If you have not done so already or recently, please share this case on your social media platforms if you have them.

If you don't 'do social media' then bring it up to someone you feel connected with (a friend, family member, neighbor or co-worker) at your next 'social event' or maybe even during a facetime or Zoom call where there is a lull.

Bring as much awareness to this case as you can. No matter where you live.

Tell them about Abby and Libby and their families and how desperate hundreds of thousands and of people are to see justice. Tell people about what the City of Delphi has gone through for the past several years and about how many people's lives have been turned upside down by accusations that have later been found to be false.

Look at the # of views on many of the podcasts and videos that are out there. The number is very high and its because so many people out there care so much.

Let's work together to double or even triple that number.

I think it can be our 'job' to bring as much publicity to this case as humanly possible, in any way possible.

Use your knowledge about this case and your powers of persuasion to discuss this case with others in hopes that they too will dedicate their time to bringing awareness to this case.

Maybe....just maybe, one of us can reach the right person who has that 'one tip.'

All JMO on a Friday lunch break after a long and busy week

Anytime you can bring publicity to a case that needs it, that is probably a good thing. However, in this case, I have a hard time understanding what people are going to be looking for to help solve the case.

Are people supposed to be on the lookout for the most recent description of the suspect, the sketch #2 from April 2019 press conference or are they supposed to be on the lookout for the person from the video? Are they supposed to be looking for both? How are people going to differentiate between the two? According to the 2019 press conference, the person depicted in that sketch "is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls." If the person in the video is the suspect on the bridge, but the person from the second sketch is the person responsible for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, how can that be?

I think the police are wrong about the description and age of the suspect in this case, but I think many other people will circulate the second sketch because why wouldn't they? What if the reason this person is not caught is because even with circulating sketches, going on tv programs, and discussing this case publicly, the picture everyone has in their head about the suspect is wrong.

 

[sunshineray]

Finding children murdered is horrific, it doesn't have to be more than that. Most first responders, even in a large city where they may encounter dead children more often, would find murdered children extremely traumatic.

I also remember well the way ISP Carter said, "And I can assure you how you left them in that woods is not - is NOT - what they are experiencing today." That he specified "how you left them". I always thought it was different from just saying, what you did to them. "How you left them" brings up other possible horrific acts done, other than the act of taking there lives...most likely after that. So does the word "experiencing" I think is was an extraordinary crime scene. AJMO

 

[Detective Willy]

I have often wondered if the video and audio could have made it harder for this case to be solved?

Peoples eyes and ears could be deceiving them because of the low quality audio and video and BG might have intentionally dressed in a different way to how he normally looks.

Not to mention the 2 sketches that look nothing like each other.

 

[sunshineray]

I have often wondered if the video and audio could have made it harder for this case to be solved?

Peoples eyes and ears could be deceiving them because of the low quality audio and video and BG might have intentionally dressed in a different way to how he normally looks.

Not to mention the 2 sketches that look nothing like each other.

I think more video or audio, even just 5 secs or a couple words, could really help...if LE truly still has no idea of the killer's identity.

 

[Clawdia]

Hello, im a new poster here and recent follower of the thread, although i have a fairly good knowledge of the case.
Anyway.. i was wondering how often the theory of more perpetrators has been discussed, and why it might have been discredited?
Just speculating, it could help explain how A and L were coerced, and maybe even the two different sketches..

On a second note, i was wondering if there is a rumor masterpost, i know we're not to spread or link to rumors and such, but i have seen discussion of ie scarves and text messages before.
I heard SO many different things taken for "true" that i struggle to figure out what was fake and what "just might be real but probably not"

Thanks!

 

[FromGermany1]

I also remember well the way ISP Carter said, "And I can assure you how you left them in that woods is not - is NOT - what they are experiencing today." That he specified "how you left them". I always thought it was different from just saying, what you did to them. "How you left them" brings up other possible horrific acts done, other than the act of taking there lives...most likely after that. So does the word "experiencing" I think is was an extraordinary crime scene. AJMO

I don't know, how BG would have had time enough to act like "a berserk" at the crime scene. Always thinking, his time was verrry limited, IF the girls weren't abducted before and brought back to RL's woods.

 

[FromGermany1]

Anytime you can bring publicity to a case that needs it, that is probably a good thing. However, in this case, I have a hard time understanding what people are going to be looking for to help solve the case.

Are people supposed to be on the lookout for the most recent description of the suspect, the sketch #2 from April 2019 press conference or are they supposed to be on the lookout for the person from the video? Are they supposed to be looking for both? How are people going to differentiate between the two? According to the 2019 press conference, the person depicted in that sketch "is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls." If the person in the video is the suspect on the bridge, but the person from the second sketch is the person responsible for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, how can that be?

I think the police are wrong about the description and age of the suspect in this case, but I think many other people will circulate the second sketch because why wouldn't they? What if the reason this person is not caught is because even with circulating sketches, going on tv programs, and discussing this case publicly, the picture everyone has in their head about the suspect is wrong.

Your post brings me to one question:
What would you think of someone, who could have been there at the MHB area on Febr 13th (we won't ever know, it seems) and posted the sketch #1= OBG on his SM, but didn't post the sketch #2 in 2019= YBG, which was much more important to solve the murder, according to LE?
I for my part am thinking, there may be a certain reason for it. With sketch #2= YBG the person felt imminent danger to himself , perhaps. With sketch #1=OBG the danger wasn't too close yet, maybe because it was the painting of an accomplice, unknown to many people and in real life anyway with another optic. IMO MOO

 

[acutename]

I have often wondered if the video and audio could have made it harder for this case to be solved?

Peoples eyes and ears could be deceiving them because of the low quality audio and video and BG might have intentionally dressed in a different way to how he normally looks.

Not to mention the 2 sketches that look nothing like each other.

FBI Wanted Posters only have the BG video and the YBG photo

LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI

 

[sandy_80]

I don't know, how BG would have had time enough to act like "a berserk" at the crime scene. Always thinking, his time was verrry limited, IF the girls weren't abducted before and brought back to RL's woods.

not if the abduction and the murder were fast..
i think the abduction happened around 2:15 or a lil more ..the arguing couple or others at the scene would start to arrive after 3 ..so i would say thats round a 40 minutes window which isnt very limited

 

[sunshineray]

I don't know, how BG would have had time enough to act like "a berserk" at the crime scene. Always thinking, his time was verrry limited, IF the girls weren't abducted before and brought back to RL's woods.

It's been said by some former LE (3 former FBI Special Agents on a podcast) that they thought BG had prepared a lair ahead of time. I'm not a regular podcast listener so trying to find the correct one in so many is difficult. Maybe someone knows the one I'm referencing? TIA if anyone knows offhand.

It's also been mentioned that BG was still there when Libby's Dad arrived and started looking for the girls.

Timestamp 2:04:20 discussing the killer still being there after DG was there looking for the girls. So it seems, for whatever reasons, the Delphi killer could have hung around well after DG began looking for the girls. Quite chilling to consider.

Add into that the Abby photo time (was it 2:07?) and how quickly BG probably made it across the bridge. I'm thinking he most likely had quite a bit of time at the scene. AJMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I also remember well the way ISP Carter said, "And I can assure you how you left them in that woods is not - is NOT - what they are experiencing today." That he specified "how you left them". I always thought it was different from just saying, what you did to them. "How you left them" brings up other possible horrific acts done, other than the act of taking there lives...most likely after that. So does the word "experiencing" I think is was an extraordinary crime scene. AJMO

Once again I assume that to be a religious reference by DC because “what are they experiencing today”, rather than revealing evidence in a round about way. As they’re deceased some would say nada, what do dead people experience? My translation of what he said is the killer left them dead but now they’re with god in heaven. The killer would know how he left them, so what other reason would DC have for saying that? I think only in our imagination is anything said to drop hints or clue to benefit the curious general public.

 

[AC4RD]

Question; if the phone was in Libby’s pocket when BG spoke, and BG did not remove whatever was covering his face, could both cut off the higher notes in the speech? Is there a way to recreate it?

Basically, we are listening to the guy speaking through some cloth, and possibly recording through another cloth..

The first audio that the police released was not cleaned up--I only discovered that a month ago listening to podcasts on a trip. The original audio was very muffled and it was nearly impossible for me to tell what was being said. The version we are familiar with ("Guys ...") has been cleaned of noise by a very skilled lab process. I'm a bit under the weather and can't offer to find the original audio but I'm sure it's available--and you're right, the original is very different. For all we know, the speaker's actual voice differs from what we've heard in some ways--IMO.

 

[somequestions]

Your post brings me to one question:
What would you think of someone, who could have been there at the MHB area on Febr 13th (we won't ever know, it seems) and posted the sketch #1= OBG on his SM, but didn't post the sketch #2 in 2019= YBG, which was much more important to solve the murder, according to LE?
I for my part am thinking, there may be a certain reason for it. With sketch #2= YBG the person felt imminent danger to himself , perhaps. With sketch #1=OBG the danger wasn't too close yet, maybe because it was the painting of an accomplice, unknown to many people and in real life anyway with another optic. IMO MOO

That was my point essentially. It comes down to what you think. Some people probably think sketch #1 (OBG) is the person everyone should be looking for. Other people probably think sketch #2 (YBG) is the person everyone should be looking. In my opinion, I think most are going to follow the police and sketch #2. And still others, like myself, think neither sketch is the answer and that it is best to try and solve the case with the video(forget about the sketches).

The only reason I can think of for why the video still and sketch #2(YGB) is on the same poster is because the video is so grainy and unidentifiable that police think that when the suspect is found he will look at least somewhat like the person depicted in sketch #2. Or he will be a combination of sketch #1 and #2. That is a very wide window based on one sketch being older and the other younger. By that definition, the police could be chasing sketch tips for years from people who want to make the sketch fit their particular POI in this case.

I think anyone who comes across this case now is going to be looking for the person depicted in sketch #2. If this case is solved it will be interesting to see whether or not the right tip came in based on those sketches.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I also remember well the way ISP Carter said, "And I can assure you how you left them in that woods is not - is NOT - what they are experiencing today." That he specified "how you left them". I always thought it was different from just saying, what you did to them. "How you left them" brings up other possible horrific acts done, other than the act of taking there lives...most likely after that. So does the word "experiencing" I think is was an extraordinary crime scene. AJMO

Ita. This is what leads me to believe that these gruesome murders were premeditated, and that he spent time with them after the fact.
JMVHO. m()(). ymmv

 

[MistyWaters]

Ita. This is what leads me to believe that these gruesome murders were premeditated, and that he spent time with them after the fact.
JMVHO. m()(). ymmv

Further to that, the killer didn’t know his deceased victims had been discovered the very next day and so DC was informing him? Because otherwise, what meaning does “not experiencing today” carry? Seems to me the context of his entire statement is equally significant to “how you left them” IMO.