Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

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I feel like I am missing something. Is there some reason that people naturally associate motorcycles with the murder of these girls?

On another note, the ride was organized by a friend of the mother of Abby. Apparently, thousands of people signed up. It looks like the weather was beautiful that day, too, and it seems that when the weather is nice, people in the area don't really consider biking to be unusual.

From cookies to motorcycles, Delphi reaches out to support girls' families | wthr.com
That’s a good question. I don’t think there’s a great reason to associate a motorcycle with the case. My lackluster reason at first was because someone I suspected for unrelated reasons had posted about a long ride around Indiana then. Secondly, although the killer is considered likely to be from the area or familiar with the area, if it’s an outsider then I consider motorcyclists more likely than others to discover the side roads, byways, and pretty nooks and crannies of a state. (Also truckers.) Thirdly, the current people being discussed ride motorcycles. Others may have additional reasons. But I don’t think known facts of the case otherwise give us a motorcycle.

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I agree with your assessment that KAK or his father may have been responsible for setting BG up with meetings. IMO - At least that’s how it seems from LE’s interview of KAK.

Interestingly enough one of the very early on POI’s discussed has an interesting connection in that he also worked at the Chrysler plant with KAK’s father. He was also a violent sexual offender of attempted rape of an 11 year old. He pretended he was a police officer to lure her. He is from Kokomo ~20 minutes away. I personally would be shocked and enraged if it was this type of POI because he should never have been let out of prison in the first place to commit an even more heinous crime. Just one more possible theory in this very confusing case. All just my opinion.

Duvall v. State

Indiana Offender Database Search
 
I recall this individual as well, I remember his face from five years ago. His work connection intrigues and I especially appreciate the link with detailed information you provide.
 
... So how did it get missed, and how did it get found? Where was it during the search, and did it reappear while KAK was away?
[...]
KAK reports that when he got home, he told his dad he had been questioned about the Delphi girls. Then, suddenly, he's deleting stuff. A_shots stuff. All of it. Then his dad lies on FB saying KAK hadn't been at home for a long time... It all stinks.

First, JMHO: "Where was (the phone) during the search?" <modsnip - derogatory names for any of the case players is not appropriate> hid it because he knew how incriminating it could be. A while back I told about the murder of a friend--the police overlooked a spent bullet from the murder weapon, underneath the bed my friend was murdered in. Didn't bother to look under the bed, murder committed during a burglary. :-( I don't know how long the police spent searching KAK's house the week after the murders but unless a team of a half-dozen cops spent a full day searching, that phone COULD have been hidden somewhere and missed. Then KAK said, "Oh, I found it!" because he knew the phone was an unresolved issue until found and studied.

But my big point was: "Wow, yes, I forgot that!" about TK's 2018 message: "My boy hasn't been home in two years!" Obviously a lie, and a clumsy one at that, and you're right; it stinks. TK probably wouldn't have bothered to lie if he had not been *covering up something*. Thus: TK was painfully aware that KAK's presence in the area in Feb 2017 was a big ol' red flag, and he lied to try to cover it up. He didn't do a very good job of it, either.

I said elsewhere: I'm still not saying KAK *is* the murderer. But the more I toss it around in my tiny little brain, the more reasons I find to think he very well COULD have been the murderer. As in (JMHO), clearly the most likely choice, given what I know about the case. Adding more people, planning, conspiracies, motives--you can make it more complicated but "KAK felt so inadequate that he wound up murdering two girls he had been catfishing (deliberately or during a rape attempt)" is the simplest explanation I see these days. Your reminder of TK's stupid lie adds weight to that. Again, JMHO.
 
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LE was in the Peru home and took every one of KAK's devices...except the iPhone5. In their interview on Feb. 25, 2017, at the house, LE reported that KAK told them his primary phone was the iPhone5, then it says he called days later to tell them he had found it. Clearly, he must have told LE he didn't know where it was, and LE never spotted it during their search, which was obviously for digital devices, since they took them all.

While KAK was away at his polygraph, and TK was at home, the phone shows up on "top of the microwave." Nothing was tampered with during the time KAK was away, seemingly. So how did it get missed, and how did it get found? Where was it during the search, and did it reappear while KAK was away? I mean, it could potentially indicate that TK was in possession of it just before the search, but didn't want that known. But at the very least, he maybe located it while his son was away, but how? It apparently wasn't where LE could find it.

I do NOT believe someone else outside the home was in possession of the phone, however, because if TK contacted someone else to bring it back, there would be a phone or digital trail of that communication (unless that was deleted, as well), not to mention someone swinging by the house to return it. Plus they had just gotten home from Vegas. IMO, that phone was in the house. I'd love to know if there was any activity on it immediately before LE showed up with the search warrant.

KAK reports that when he got home, he told his dad he had been questioned about the Delphi girls. Then, suddenly, he's deleting stuff. A_shots stuff. All of it. Then his dad lies on FB saying KAK hadn't been at home for a long time...

It all stinks.


Plus--NOBODY loans their smart phone out to anybody, except perhaps to a family member. MOO
 
First, JMHO: "Where was (the phone) during the search?" Poppin' Fresh, the Felony Doughboy, hid it because he knew how incriminating it could be. A while back I told about the murder of a friend--the police overlooked a spent bullet from the murder weapon, underneath the bed my friend was murdered in. Didn't bother to look under the bed, murder committed during a burglary. :-( I don't know how long the police spent searching KAK's house the week after the murders but unless a team of a half-dozen cops spent a full day searching, that phone COULD have been hidden somewhere and missed. Then KAK said, "Oh, I found it!" because he knew the phone was an unresolved issue until found and studied.

But my big point was: "Wow, yes, I forgot that!" about TK's 2018 message: "My boy hasn't been home in two years!" Obviously a lie, and a clumsy one at that, and you're right; it stinks. TK probably wouldn't have bothered to lie if he had not been *covering up something*. Thus: TK was painfully aware that KAK's presence in the area in Feb 2017 was a big ol' red flag, and he lied to try to cover it up. He didn't do a very good job of it, either.

I said elsewhere: I'm still not saying KAK *is* the murderer. But the more I toss it around in my tiny little brain, the more reasons I find to think he very well COULD have been the murderer. As in (JMHO), clearly the most likely choice, given what I know about the case. Adding more people, planning, conspiracies, motives--you can make it more complicated but "KAK felt so inadequate that he wound up murdering two girls he had been catfishing (deliberately or during a rape attempt)" is the simplest explanation I see these days. Your reminder of TK's stupid lie adds weight to that. Again, JMHO.
Yes. So now we have both KAK and TK lying on FB about KAK's whereabouts for Feb. 2017. Other family and friends would know those are lies, so who are they trying to fool?

I had a moment during the MS interview with "Bart." I kind of felt like he was leaning towards LE thinking KAK was the killer, too. And then, as the podcasters explained how LE told KAK the toilet story, it was like the ball dropped. Suddenly, "Bart" switched gears and thought TK was the suspect, and that shocked the crap out of him (jmo). It was eerie, imo. Why are they looking so deeply into TK's past? Why use that story to get a reaction out of KAK? Why is Dad covering for a son who is not only involved in the largest CSAM ring investigation in IN state history, but also being questioned about the murder of two young girls? Why would TK have his son contact prostitutes in Vegas for them? Does he always have his son do all the legwork for his own ultimate pleasure? What other paths might that lead us down?

Sure, there could be other pervs in the mix, but there are two men, with likely direct links to a_shots, and therefore L, who live together and have access to KAK's phones, who share sexual interests, with "my daddy stuff" being thrown around like confetti, with magically disappearing and reappearing phones despite no knowledge that LE was coming for them, who both have Mondays off, who looked up the Galveston address, even though KAK already knew it, then went to Vegas together the day after ski mask peeper appeared, and who outright lie about everything related to Feb. 2017.
 
One reason the motorcycle idea was originally looked at was some statement, I think from LE, that the killer was able to get around Delphi and the area quickly. Does anyone else recall this?

Yes, though the quote that the "got around quickly" came from pretty clearly also calls the vehicle in question a car:

"We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.

The car would have been seen between noon and five on Feb. 13, 2017 at the old DCS parking lot, according to police. The office is on County Road 300 North near the Hoosier Heartland Highway. The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant.


ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'
 
Remember its entirely possible the Bridge guy had nothing to do with it. which may explain why the FBI is changing the description of the bridge guy suddenly.

Its possible it was just someone walking in that area that day .

With what little info we have on the case, its open to speculation

This is just my opinion, but the idea of BG being just an innocent guy on a walk that day has about zero chance of being correct.

1) The photo of BG taken by Libby is still on on the FBI wanted poster, despite them tinkering with the written description of the suspect
2) After years, nobody has come forward to say "that was me, I was just out for a walk that day"
3)The "down the hill comment" was from the same video as BG walking towards Libby and Abby and so it was BGs voice

BG is the killer of Abby and Libby. MOO
 
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I feel like I am missing something. Is there some reason that people naturally associate motorcycles with the murder of these girls?

On another note, the ride was organized by a friend of the mother of Abby. Apparently, thousands of people signed up. It looks like the weather was beautiful that day, too, and it seems that when the weather is nice, people in the area don't really consider biking to be unusual.

From cookies to motorcycles, Delphi reaches out to support girls' families | wthr.com

"it seems that when the weather is nice, people in the area don't really consider biking to be unusual"

That was precisely the point in posting the link, Skigirl. It was posted as a rebuttal to the topic that was being discussed att. I cannot say if you are missing anything or not for that's for you to determine.

I've been on this case since Day One. There's likely not anything that I don't know about these horrific and senseless murders. Henceforth, I am aware of the fund raisers and who initiated them and when. I know who most of those were who rode motorcycles that fine day. Do you?

I believe in the truth. I believe in Justice for Abby&Libby. It's overdue but it's coming.
.
 
"it seems that when the weather is nice, people in the area don't really consider biking to be unusual"

That was precisely the point in posting the link, Skigirl. It was posted as a rebuttal to the topic that was being discussed att. I cannot say if you are missing anything or not for that's for you to determine.

I've been on this case since Day One. There's likely not anything that I don't know about these horrific and senseless murders. Henceforth, I am aware of the fund raisers and who initiated them and when. I know who most of those were who rode motorcycles that fine day. Do you?

I believe in the truth. I believe in Justice for Abby&Libby. It's overdue but it's coming.
.
I was simply agreeing with you. I have been following it off and on but am not as familiar with the particulars of this case as I am with some of the others. My question was exactly that -- a question -- about where certain ideas were coming from in the thread, so that I can get my bearings. Geez. I'm actually pretty good at this and would like nothing more than to see this case solved. FWIW, I am an expert in cognition/perception and have published studies involving face perception, which is why I made the comment about being pretty confident that video still is KAK.
 
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If KAK is not the murderer, but knows who the murderer is, I suggest he should be given immunity for his CP crimes in return for his testimony against Libby and Abby's murderer. Its crazy if the murderer is known to LEO and yet they can not arrest him. They need to do what it takes to put the killer of Abby and Libby behind bars for the rest of his life. Immunity to KAK might be one way to do it. MOO

I cannot believe what I am reading! These are innocent children he is corrupting for his own devious pleasures! KAK will be in prison for life after his numerous convictions. According to the newly released transcripts, he was the last one to be in contact with 14yo L.

No way should he be allowed immunity for his copious amounts of SCAM. What kind of message would that send to other perverted predators?

I trust ISP and the Sheriff's Dept to bring this case to a successful conclusion without offering KAK anything but a life behind bars.

MOVHO
 
I was simply agreeing with you. I have been following it off and on but am not as familiar with the particulars of this case as I am with some of the others. My question was exactly that -- a question -- about where certain ideas were coming from in the thread, so that I can get my bearings. Geez. I'm actually pretty good at this and would like nothing more than to see this case solved. FWIW, I am an expert in cognition/perception and have published studies involving face perception, which is why I made the comment about being pretty confident that video still is KAK.

TY. My apologies if my response was abrupt or offensive in any way, shape or form. WS values your participation as well as the other members here do, too.

Typically, I am more laid back but have been suffering from severe insomnia due to CPTSD. Neither can be cured although I've tried for two decades. Hypervigilance became a part of who I am.

It amazes me how well the family members are able to cope with such devastating losses of these two beautiful girls being brutally ripped from their lives. Their murders have left many of the community with PTSD. My favorite hat is off to the LEO and the ITeam for what they do is critically important for serving and protecting the citizens.
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One reason the motorcycle idea was originally looked at was some statement, I think from LE, that the killer was able to get around Delphi and the area quickly. Does anyone else recall this?

One reason this has always been a strong consideration for me is the thought of a bike/motorcycle being parked where nobody else could see it, behind/within the tree line along the highway or main road, providing an easy exit on foot initially, lending to a retreat through wooded area or trails where he would not be seen, then could get on his bike. Same goes with a vehicle, parked along the tree line. Or perhaps a dirt bike or even all terrain vehicle through the woods. These would make noises though, and I don’t recall anyone hearing or reporting the sound of a motorcycle? But again, if a leaf falls in the woods and nobody heard it, it doesn’t mean it didn’t make a sound, kwim?

I also think a dirt bike, bicycle are also a possibility, full entry and exit via the trails. At this point, what is NOT a possibility...
 
unless she tossed it. Or possibly what they recovered was because it had been backed up to her cloud? Someone could off me right now and investigators could retrieve a whole lot from all the backup cloud services I use.
again...it would be the first thing he asks for.. not wait for her to hide it in her pocket and record...the phone was recovered so it wasnt destroyed
 
While KAK was away at his polygraph, and TK was at home, the phone shows up on "top of the microwave." Nothing was tampered with during the time KAK was away, seemingly. So how did it get missed, and how did it get found? Where was it during the search, and did it reappear while KAK was away? I mean, it could potentially indicate that TK was in possession of it just before the search, but didn't want that known. But at the very least, he maybe located it while his son was away, but how? It apparently wasn't where LE could find it.

During the execution of a search warrant, everything and everywhere in and around the home should be checked and that includes inside fridges and freezers, washing machines, vacuum cleaner bags etc. Either KAK is lying or LE didn't do their job properly.
 
During the execution of a search warrant, everything and everywhere in and around the home should be checked and that includes inside fridges and freezers, washing machines, vacuum cleaner bags etc. Either KAK is lying or LE didn't do their job properly.
Either might be true.
But if he did the crime he was hiding stuff immediately.
 
First, JMHO: "Where was (the phone) during the search?" Poppin' Fresh, the Felony Doughboy, hid it because he knew how incriminating it could be. A while back I told about the murder of a friend--the police overlooked a spent bullet from the murder weapon, underneath the bed my friend was murdered in. Didn't bother to look under the bed, murder committed during a burglary. :-( I don't know how long the police spent searching KAK's house the week after the murders but unless a team of a half-dozen cops spent a full day searching, that phone COULD have been hidden somewhere and missed. Then KAK said, "Oh, I found it!" because he knew the phone was an unresolved issue until found and studied.

But my big point was: "Wow, yes, I forgot that!" about TK's 2018 message: "My boy hasn't been home in two years!" Obviously a lie, and a clumsy one at that, and you're right; it stinks. TK probably wouldn't have bothered to lie if he had not been *covering up something*. Thus: TK was painfully aware that KAK's presence in the area in Feb 2017 was a big ol' red flag, and he lied to try to cover it up. He didn't do a very good job of it, either.

I said elsewhere: I'm still not saying KAK *is* the murderer. But the more I toss it around in my tiny little brain, the more reasons I find to think he very well COULD have been the murderer. As in (JMHO), clearly the most likely choice, given what I know about the case. Adding more people, planning, conspiracies, motives--you can make it more complicated but "KAK felt so inadequate that he wound up murdering two girls he had been catfishing (deliberately or during a rape attempt)" is the simplest explanation I see these days. Your reminder of TK's stupid lie adds weight to that. Again, JMHO.
Agree.
Simplest thing.
But no arrest for any of the child exploitation till 2020.
So strange. Did he string the police along?
 
During the execution of a search warrant, everything and everywhere in and around the home should be checked and that includes inside fridges and freezers, washing machines, vacuum cleaner bags etc. Either KAK is lying or LE didn't do their job properly.
Question: Would they have been allowed to check KAK’s dad’s pockets if the search warrant was obtained based on KAK’s known activity?
 
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