Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[WildHuncher]

Secondary staging - When there is an intentional alteration or manipulation of the scene for the offender's pleasure or fulfilment.

Again we can't be sure if the FBI agent didn't mean what a terminology purist would call "posing."

 

[Yemelyan]

Again we can't be sure if the FBI agent didn't mean what a terminology purist would call "posing."

No, we absolutely cannot be sure - and that was part of my point of the post, besides being (hopefully) informational - posing is a form of secondary staging; to merely call it "staging" is not that informative but an affidavit for a search warrant is not, say, a profile of a killer and does not need to be extremely informative as to that point and give every bit of information that LE know or suspect. Whether it was primary staging to mislead or secondary staging for the offender's fulfillment, it was not totally inaccurate, strictly speaking, on the part of LE to call it staging if the bodies had been moved around or rearranged post-mortem. Though it wasn't that informative either, and probably was not meant to be. IMO of course.

A bigger problem to understanding what went on at the crime scene is that some people here in this forum first heard of "staging" and assumed this meant that props were pre-arranged at the scene (conversations about this pre-date the search warrant info).

 

[Yuletide]

I have always thought the BG picture resembled RL. I suggested way back when that he had used a temporary hair dye. I was laughed off the forum. RL certainly had reason to be at or close to the murder site, with it being on his own property. He also had plenty of time the evening of the murders and the following morning to destroy, bury, burn any evidence.

 

[AC4RD]

My late cop friend used to say that whatever formal definitions of staging and posing exist, most working cops use the terms pretty much interchangeably to mean anything the murderer did to the bodies or the scene.

... and it may be true that, if we don't all have the same definitions of "staging" and "posing," perhaps not all of the police, including rural deputies, don't have the same definitions, either. Maybe.

EDITED TO ADD: I see many people also agreed with the point that different LE people may mean different things by the terms. I'm leaving the message, though, rather than leaving a blank with "deleted by me" because. Just because.

 

[Yuletide]

... and it may be true that, if we don't all have the same definitions of "staging" and "posing," perhaps not all of the police, including rural deputies, don't have the same definitions, either. Maybe.

It’s my humble opinion that any movement of the body after the murder would be considered staging and any placement of arms, legs, head, or additions to the crime scene would fall under posing.

 

[wary]

It’s my humble opinion that any movement of the body after the murder would be considered staging and any placement of arms, legs, head, or additions to the crime scene would fall under posing.

I think that the distinction between staging and posing is more a case of the motivation for changing the crime scene, rather than the distinction made above.

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I think that the distinction between staging and posing is more a case of the motivation for changing the crime scene, rather than the distinction made above.

MOO

This is correct, IMO.

 

[Yuletide]

Also very strange that RL fabricated a false alibi ahead of time

 

[Justice101]

As another posted said, he knew there was a big search on for the girls and probably heard by way of mouth from someone that they went missing at 3pm. He really needed an alibi to cover his driving offense.

 

[Sillybilly]

As another posted said, he knew there was a big search on for the girls and probably heard by way of mouth from someone that they went missing at 3pm. He really needed an alibi to cover his driving offense.

IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO

 

[insearchoflight]

If we just take what little facts we have and piece them together it seems most logical it went down like this..

KK communicates over time with a Libby via social media/Snapchat as “Anthony shots”. TK also communicates as Anthony Shots. After grooming for some time he convinces her to meet up. Libby chooses the location (my speculation). Abby and Libby act like it’s a spur of the moment decision to go there but really they have it pre-planned with Anthony shots. They go out there and walk around waiting for the hot guy Anthony to show up. But when TK shows up Libby immediately starts filming at first not scared just “oh my gosh look this guy is NOT the photo”. When he gets closer they see he has a gun. He uses the gun to order them down the hill and control them. He uses the gun to control the entire event but ultimately uses a cutting instrument as murder weapon, most likely a knife. The crime is sexually motivated. After the murder he moves and poses the girls to take photographs to memorialize the event. He also takes a piece of clothing as a souvenirs. He doesn’t bother unposing them because at this point he has completed his goals. He leaves.

I think LE have this all pieced together but it’s complicated because there were two people communicating as Anthony shots and they are related. They need to spend a great deal of time compiling evidence that will slam dunk this and not screw it up.

All moo

 

[MuddyTires]

* There were copious amounts of blood at the Crime scene indicating the killer would have been covered in blood*
This is the worst bit to discuss , for me personally...but sadly, also it is likely one of the most useful pieces of information. This person was doused with his victims DNA making all of us wonder what became of those clothes? Did anyone encounter someone that had bloody laundry , some blood spatter on their shoes, etc? I don't know- but IMO this bit would help nail someone in quick time.

LOGAN WARRANT final_Redacted.pdf

et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. ...

www.docdroid.net

The Indiana Packers Corp. meat packing plant is just 2.5 miles away from the bridge.

 

[ReadySet]

IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO

Agree. I do not, and never have, believed RL is BG. However, I am suspicious that he had some nexus to the crime and/or BG. I think he knew things. As you said, he didn't want to tell what he knew, so he tried to fix it as if he wasn't there.
IMO

 

[M. Kay]

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

This quote above better expresses my own recent thoughts already posted about RL. He wanted to distance himself and "give the impression he was away" says it better.
Over five frustrating years ago, when I first saw video of BG, I suspected RL; since then, closeups of video indicate reddish facial hair tones and a definitely younger man. There are more likely suspects.

 

[MistyWaters]

The thing about one sided information without explanation is we don’t know the other side of the story and we’re only left to speculate. But LE certainly questioned RL about the false alibi (that’s if his cousin was telling the truth, maybe that person was motivated to try collect the reward?) and it’s possible the reason was RL also drove on his suspected licence someplace else that afternoon. I’m assuming the dump captured him on CCTV so he couldn’t get out of that one.

Nobody has ever said his false alibi was created because it was proven he was at his home that afternoon. If LE believed RL was aware of information about the murders and that’s the reason for it they would have good reason to charge him as an accessory or aiding and abetting. JMO

 

[arielilane]

Has this been shared?

Delphi victim's mom on handling of case: 'They don't know what they're doing, still'

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The mother of one of the girls murdered in Delphi five years ago said she has lost faith in law enforcement. Libby German’s mom, Carrie Timmons, is making that statement one week after I-team 8 revealed stunning new details in the case. Last week, I-Team 8 with the help of...

www.wishtv.com

Has this been shared?

Delphi victim's mom on handling of case: 'They don't know what they're doing, still'

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The mother of one of the girls murdered in Delphi five years ago said she has lost faith in law enforcement. Libby German’s mom, Carrie Timmons, is making that statement one week after I-team 8 revealed stunning new details in the case. Last week, I-Team 8 with the help of...

www.wishtv.com

 

[arielilane]

Hello, Schatz, thanks for posting the article. "DC and I don’t particularly see eye to eye. We never have." That quote from the article is bothersome to me, IMO. Probably making more out of it than I need to but come on Libby's mom deserves better than than from LE.

 

[Yuletide]

It’s easy to criticize and difficult to do. That’s my quote. Although I feel Libertys biological mothers pain, I also see that the people actually raising Liberty aren’t criticizing law enforcement.

 

[FromGermany1]

It’s my humble opinion that any movement of the body after the murder would be considered staging and any placement of arms, legs, head, or additions to the crime scene would fall under posing.

I actually agree, BUT:
To arrange the girls' arms/legs/head in a certain position, it probably would have been necessary to put one girl near the other, IF they (their bodies) together were used to show some sort of "picture". I wonder, why this process should be differentiated in "staging" and "posing", if one process wasn't possible without the other process.

 

[FromGermany1]

I have always thought the BG picture resembled RL. I suggested way back when that he had used a temporary hair dye. I was laughed off the forum. RL certainly had reason to be at or close to the murder site, with it being on his own property. He also had plenty of time the evening of the murders and the following morning to destroy, bury, burn any evidence.

If RL isn't the killer, the real killer could also have used temporary hair dye in reddish-brown, and some weeks after the murder the hair tone had faded or/and was overtoned to middle ash blonde. I wouldn't laugh off the possibility of some hair dye. Hadn't to be done FOR the murder, but afterwards changed because of the murder, and the hair never became reddish-brown again since. IMO