Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Poor woman! One feels incredibly compassionate towards her.

Poor woman! One feels incredibly compassionate towards her.

I agree. How can someone not have compassion towards her. Especially those of us who are a mothers.
(This next part is not meant for black lash towards you whatsoever. I’m just using the article/media source for reference to my post from yesterday towards the other WS members):
What I don’t understand is why this article (Delphi victim's mom on handling of case: 'They don't know what they're doing, still') which is what you based your post about being compassionate towards CT was accepted as truth from that news/media source, but the article from the same news/media source that I used when I created my post about the girls being “moved and staged” was completely disregarded. x infinity

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Remember that LE isn't obligated to be truthful when interrogating suspects. To me, the most likely scenario is that LE was floating the "two different AS profile users" to lock KAK into a firm statement that he was responsible for all the messages. Just MHO, as always.

Respectively snipped for focus by me.

Apparently LE isn’t obligated to be truthful to Abby and Libby‘s families, nor to the entire world (the public) for that matter about insisting that social media was not at all tied to this case for almost 5 years.
Makes me wonder what else have they been untruthful about!??

Just MOOing.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

@Kell1 Item 6 on page 3 of the probable cause states that it appeared that the girl's bodies were moved and staged.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/LOGAN-WARRANT-final_Redacted.pdf

FrostedGlass, thank you so, so, so much for pointing this out back on 5/30/22.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Q. In the public domain there have been descriptions of the crime scene, descriptions of items found and the positioning of the bodies. Do you feel there was an excessive number of persons present once it was determined to be a crime scene?

A. Once secured by law enforcement as a crime scene, no. I would surmise that searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon.

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

This last statement or rather answer was bolded by you, is that because you were implying that the scene was staged? Or for some other reason?
I’m just trying to ascertain what or rather why you bolded that statement.

Thank you for your future clarification.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I am more than curious to know if RL regularly took his trash to the county dumping station? As in before 2/13/17, and/or if he had broken one (or any) of the conditions of his probation.
I believe that LE has the answers to these questions but will not be sharing them with the public until the proper time, if at all.
Knowing the answers would certainly help me (us?) to have a better understanding of how RL may or may have not (directly or indirectly) had a role of the murders of Abby and Libby, even if it was just a small role.

Just a reminder that there is video of RL at the dump before A&L were even at the trail.

MOO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

From all that we know right now, I believe that the press conference in 2019 answers the question of who BG is. However in 2019 we didn’t know what & who we about right now.

At/around min 4:13, Doug Carter said: “for more than two years you never thought that we would switch gears to a new investigative strategy”.

So me being the unintelligent n00b that I am, as far as following missing persons cases go, I googled what the definition of an ‘investigative strategy’ is, and what a ‘new investigative strategy’ encompasses. And wouldn’t you know it, those searches led me to this PDF from January 2018: https://www.policeforum.org/assets/ChangingNatureofCrime.pdf
In the 1st & 2nd paragraphs of this PDF, it says: “To say that computers, communication systems, and other technologies are changing the policing profession is a vast understatement.”, “For this report, we stepped back and assessed the impact of computers and other technologies on the nature of crime itself, and on how technology is changing investigations. We learned about new types of computer-related crimes, and also about criminals’ use of technology to commit many old types of crime.”.

After reading this, and re-watching the 2019 press conference is what led me to believe that what DC said in that PC about ‘taking a new direction, implementing a new investigative strategy, it is likely that we have interviewed you before’, etc. was/is about KK & TK. Or at the very least someone connected to them.

MOO. YMMV.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Just a reminder that there is video of RL at the dump before A&L were even at the trail.

MOO

Just to clarify you mean before February 13, 2017, correct?
Because I know that he was there before The girls were even dropped off (sometime between 11 and 12-ish, iirc?).

 

[FrostedGlass]

I always trip over this statement:"it appeared that the girl's bodies were moved and staged." If the scene itself was staged, the bodies would not necessarily have to be moved. OTOH, if just the bodies were staged, one would automatically assume that they were moved in some way. So that leads me to think they were moved from one place to another within the crime scene. But why would he do that?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just to clarify you mean before February 13, 2017, correct?
Because I know that he was there before The girls were even dropped off (sometime between 11 and 12-ish, iirc?).

RL lived out in the country and we don't know if he had trash service or not. It's not uncommon for country folks have things that they can't get picked up by a service so they take them to the dump. He probably used the dump a lot.

 

[AC4RD]

[...] After reading this, and re-watching the 2019 press conference is what led me to believe that what DC said in that PC about ‘taking a new direction, implementing a new investigative strategy, it is likely that we have interviewed you before’, etc. was/is about KK & TK. Or at the very least someone connected to them.

MOO. YMMV.

Interesting! That might be why KAK's arrest only happened in 2020, after the "new direction" was implemented? I'd never made that connection in my mind but it certainly seems logical.

BTW, speaking just for myself, I don't know that your message about that article was "disregarded"; sometimes things sound logical but I (or we) just don't have anything significant to add. For instance, I probably wouldn't have made the comment above except that I also wanted to add that I didn't think you necessarily had been "disregarded." You're a very productive and helpful contributor, Aspie!

 

[carbuff]

I always trip over this statement:"it appeared that the girl's bodies were moved and staged." If the scene itself was staged, the bodies would not necessarily have to be moved. OTOH, if just the bodies were staged, one would automatically assume that they were moved in some way. So that leads me to think they were moved from one place to another within the crime scene. But why would he do that?

"Move" could cover something as simple as dragging somebody a couple of feet to line up better with his perverse idea of what he wanted the scene to look like.

 

[MistyWaters]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

This last statement or rather answer was bolded by you, is that because you were implying that the scene was staged? Or for some other reason?
I’m just trying to ascertain what or rather why you bolded that statement.

Thank you for your future clarification.

I bolted the statement in response to whatever was the topic of discussion when I posted that reply, which as I recall was from several days ago. As far as staging, it depends what is your definition of the word but it appears the searchers did not recognize a gruesome murder “set-up” scene when they initially sighted the bodies.

For all we know the girls could’ve been “moved” from nearby after death and placed in a shallow dip, covered in leaves which then blew around in the night to reveal an arm or a leg which was later spotted by the searchers, appearing as a natural death due to falling or hypothermia. Other than that, what “…..did not know what they had come upon” IMO mainly implies it was not viewed an obvious murder scene for some reason. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

"Move" could cover something as simple as dragging somebody a couple of feet to line up better with his perverse idea of what he wanted the scene to look like.

Perhaps it was attempt to hide the bodies from early discovery? Countless SM comments have been made criticizing LE along with the searchers for not having found them sooner.

 

[IQuestion]

Sorry for my narrow focus...but I've got to continue with this train of thoughts before I lose them. (Yah, sometimes I forget why I walked into a room, Lol) Up and till page 53, no one has mentioned or asked about a murder. Investigators are just establishing ownership of the phones/KAk's fake identities A_S and EmAn etc. The age of the online victims gets younger and younger. He confesses to contacting 17 year old, "YEAH" then the ages drop down to 16 "YEAH", then the ages drop to a 13 year old. (Remember, these investigators are setting up a foundation and each step is more damning than the last.) And now that KAK has admitted the contact with the 13 year old, he has no problem admitting to ages of 16 to 13. He even says, (paraphrasing) he is OK is the ages are "teens." (Fifteen, Fourteen, Thirteen etc.) Then he throws a bombshell comment (IN MY OPINION IT IS A BOMBSHELL.)
Pg 54 Line 7 "-okay someone shoots someone and then they're with the person that happens a lot and then they get charged for it. And they say that they killed them. That doesn't mean that they killed them."
Shut-the-frontdoor! The detectives had not asked one question about a murder or an accomplice/witness to a murder and yet, that is the comment KAK throws out!!
Wow, I mean double wow. Where did that come from KAK? I'm going to suggest you are the world's worst poker player. You went "All In" on pocket aces even before the flop!!! Nothing like telling the whole world what is in your hand/head, huh?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I always trip over this statement:"it appeared that the girl's bodies were moved and staged." If the scene itself was staged, the bodies would not necessarily have to be moved. OTOH, if just the bodies were staged, one would automatically assume that they were moved in some way. So that leads me to think they were moved from one place to another within the crime scene. But why would he do that?

Great question.

Why would he murder the girls in the first place? Why would he try to allude LE, making them think that the crime scene was different than it actually was?

I have so many “but why’s, how’s, who’s, where’s, etc. I wish I could answer your question. Hopefully one day all of our questions will be answered. (Fingers crossed)

 

[raja]

Sorry for my narrow focus...but I've got to continue with this train of thoughts before I lose them. (Yah, sometimes I forget why I walked into a room, Lol) Up and till page 53, no one has mentioned or asked about a murder. Investigators are just establishing ownership of the phones/KAk's fake identities A_S and EmAn etc. The age of the online victims gets younger and younger. He confesses to contacting 17 year old, "YEAH" then the ages drop down to 16 "YEAH", then the ages drop to a 13 year old. (Remember, these investigators are setting up a foundation and each step is more damning than the last.) And now that KAK has admitted the contact with the 13 year old, he has no problem admitting to ages of 16 to 13. He even says, (paraphrasing) he is OK is the ages are "teens." (Fifteen, Fourteen, Thirteen etc.) Then he throws a bombshell comment (IN MY OPINION IT IS A BOMBSHELL.)
Pg 54 Line 7 "-okay someone shoots someone and then they're with the person that happens a lot and then they get charged for it. And they say that they killed them. That doesn't mean that they killed them."
Shut-the-frontdoor! The detectives had not asked one question about a murder or an accomplice/witness to a murder and yet, that is the comment KAK throws out!!
Wow, I mean double wow. Where did that come from KAK? I'm going to suggest you are the world's worst poker player. You went "All In" on pocket aces even before the flop!!! Nothing like telling the whole world what is in your hand/head, huh?

I say double wow also.

 

[Spartygirl]

The piece of land/parcel highlighted in blue, next to the 3.92 acres which is the one that you have highlighted in turquoise, where are the girls bodies were found, is 6.2 acres which abuts initial crime scene was (turquoise), before it was expanded in February 2018.

In February 2018, specifically February 5, 2018, those 6.2 acres had a quitclaim deed transfer to an unknown grantee. The reason that the transfer to the “grantee” is unknown is because it is sealed. Sealed records. This piece of land that I am talking about, the one that is 6.2 acres, has an outbuilding with Electric and a paved road to it. This outbuilding is only 300 feet away from the crime scene, NNE. The paved road is not accessible via any other roads, but only accessible via RL’s main property where his house sits.

All of the above, including maps and layers (from 2011-2021)to choose from to see various things, like parcels and more, can be found on the Indiana Beacon Portal which is public to anyone who wants to look/research/sleuth: Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Report: 08-06-27-000-001.000-006

(It is my opinion only that the reason that RL needed an alibi was because he knew that some person (BG?) unbeknownst to us, was going to use this outbuilding to murder the girls, and because he already had a record he didn’t want the authorities to find out because that would mean that he was going back to jail. It is my belief that the times that he had an alibi for were the times that the murders took place in his outbuilding, and subsequently when the girls were moved to the original crime scene, where they were found/moved to. In my out of the box neurodivergent mind, all of this is connected! We the public just don’t know about these things, YET. And if not all of this is one heck of a coincidence!
In February 2019 LE told the public that BG had fold them and that they were going in a new direction. I believe that when the transfer of the deed took place on 2/5/18 is when they went in the new direction but they didn’t say anything about it until a year later. I believe that the reason that they waited was because they had recently figured that out in 2018 and between 2018 and 19 they were collecting more evidence. Additionally the pic attached is the quitclaim deed transfer, which can also be found on the beacon portal.)

ETA: typos & to clarify that I don’t think RL murdered A&L. But I think he knew who did.

Yes...I remember digging into the sale of the property back then.

I also spent a lot of time researching during the new acquisition of the bridge and park there.

I do NOT believe RL knew that someone was going to use any building around the area for a murder.
I think RL may have had a few suspected people in mind, but did NOT know anything in reference to this tragedy that happened that day on the bridge with Libby and Abby.

I do think RL only needed an alibi due to his violating probation issues of not driving, etc. That is the only reason.
JMO

 

[Schatz]

Sorry for my narrow focus...but I've got to continue with this train of thoughts before I lose them. (Yah, sometimes I forget why I walked into a room, Lol) Up and till page 53, no one has mentioned or asked about a murder. Investigators are just establishing ownership of the phones/KAk's fake identities A_S and EmAn etc. The age of the online victims gets younger and younger. He confesses to contacting 17 year old, "YEAH" then the ages drop down to 16 "YEAH", then the ages drop to a 13 year old. (Remember, these investigators are setting up a foundation and each step is more damning than the last.) And now that KAK has admitted the contact with the 13 year old, he has no problem admitting to ages of 16 to 13. He even says, (paraphrasing) he is OK is the ages are "teens." (Fifteen, Fourteen, Thirteen etc.) Then he throws a bombshell comment (IN MY OPINION IT IS A BOMBSHELL.)
Pg 54 Line 7 "-okay someone shoots someone and then they're with the person that happens a lot and then they get charged for it. And they say that they killed them. That doesn't mean that they killed them."
Shut-the-frontdoor! The detectives had not asked one question about a murder or an accomplice/witness to a murder and yet, that is the comment KAK throws out!!
Wow, I mean double wow. Where did that come from KAK? I'm going to suggest you are the world's worst poker player. You went "All In" on pocket aces even before the flop!!! Nothing like telling the whole world what is in your hand/head, huh?

I have GOT to comb through this again, and not during what felt like a fever dream of an all nighter. And make notes. WOW.

 

[FromGermany1]

RL lived out in the country and we don't know if he had trash service or not. It's not uncommon for country folks have things that they can't get picked up by a service so they take them to the dump. He probably used the dump a lot.

For having no license at the time, he was on the road a lot, it seems, even two times a day. But cleaning out and buying aquarium fish, having a beer here and there, are reasons. LE could have caught him much earlier than after the crime, in Delphi and between town and his property. Someone closed both eyes for some time. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I always trip over this statement:"it appeared that the girl's bodies were moved and staged." If the scene itself was staged, the bodies would not necessarily have to be moved. OTOH, if just the bodies were staged, one would automatically assume that they were moved in some way. So that leads me to think they were moved from one place to another within the crime scene. But why would he do that?

bbm
Because he is sick in his head? Mentally ill? Has to pretend to be normal all his life, but is not in the remotest?