Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[sandy_80]

i am just curious why so many repeat the assumption ..that x had a rule in the murder or knew about it or BG ?
what exactly hints at others knowing about this crime and how exactly ...

 

[WildHuncher]

Interesting also that on pg. 2, item 4, it states that the girls were "found dead by wounds cause by a (blacked out ) weapon. If you compare the number of letters that would make up the blacked out word, to the lines of typing above and below, it appears that the word it approximately 6 letters long. I know that "sharp" contains 5 letters, but I'm assuming that is the word?

I've seen the claim somewhere that a longer redacted word describing the souvenir taken by the killer(s) is "undergarments." I tend to believe it. It's a long word for a long black bar in the text. It's also consistent with the FBI agent concluding the killer was a deviant taking pictures. There were clearly aspects of the scene that pointed her to that.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I don’t think KAK was ever at the bridge. If he was I’m sure LE could have placed him there by now, not to mention his phone was pinging at a house near his grandparents the day of the murders, according to the interview with him that was released.

I think KAK thinks he knows who did it and doesn’t want to tell, even though he may be wrong.

I think RL knew what happened and who was involved and that’s why he lied about an alibi.

RBBMFF

1. I agree with your statement about if KAK was at the bridge that LE could have placed him there by now. But how are we to know this info since LE has yet to release it to the public.
2. If in fact KAK himself was at the bridge, or rather more specifically, if it was one of his many phones that pinged at or near the bridge, who’s to say it was indeed KAK himself? Could it have possibly been someone other than KAK, that had access to one of his many phones used it to implicate KAK? In my humble amateur opinion I’m leaning toward the idea that this horrific crime was indeed pre-planned, perhaps extensively. And if it was, who’s to say that this specific phone of KAK’s that pinged at the bridge, was given to someone else either by KAK himself or by someone else who may have had access to any and all of his devices. LE may or may not know what person was actually at the bridge that day, but regardless we don’t yet know. And if one of his phones was used and he was not there at the bridge, it would explain why his (other) phone pinged at a house near his grandparents.
3. And I too agree with you, iamnotagolem, that I think KAK knows who did it and doesn’t want to tell (for whatever unbeknownst reason(s) to us).
4. I understand that some of this info came from the interview with him that was released, but who in the actual duck (duck goose) believes anything that that lying liar who lies, says!?!! (not me!)

moo. JMVHO. YMMV.

 

[IQuestion]

i am just curious why so many repeat the assumption ..that x had a rule in the murder or knew about it or BG ?
what exactly hints at others knowing about this crime and how exactly ...

The dropbox? Just like many can log in to view, listen to a podcast or read my/your post? Maybe multiple people could log into KK's site (s). He already admitted to making money designing websites, posting menus for restaurants. (Would no doubt include photos, locations, hours of operation etc.) Heck he probably even knows how to set an online payment system for the restaurants, too! And, he even bragged at how easy it was for him to create from his phone, alone! What if he had a site that required a "password to access" the content he posted. Why do you think detectives brought up the marijuana delivery company KK had??? HE DIDN'T SELL MARIJUANA, HE SOLD THE DELIVERY SERVICE.... We know he lies about everything, but none the less still leaves crumbs. He can't help but tell everyone how clever he is with technology, skirting the edges of the law, "service vs sales." Didn't he use a "pay for view" event as one of his alibis for that day?
Like I have always said, he is a lousy poker player..."he has a tell."
I kid you not, he is an internet stalker/creeper/manipulator and he had a 10 year head start... then he got too cocky, too comfortable. (IMO) He was a big catfish in a little pond, so to speak, until the killing of Libby and Abby. (paraphrasing) "Bud, because of you, we are working the largest *advertiser censored* ring in Indiana."
***ps "A tell" is a behavior or clue that a poker player gives off that alerts the observer to what he may have in his hand.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't put much stock in this. If we hear it directly from Anna, then yes. If I hear it from GH saying Anna told him then that is second hand information and I don't give it much weight, if any. But here this sounds like someone is telling GH that Anna told him and he is relaying this to GH. That would be, what, third hand information. We have no confirmation from Anna here or, to the best of my knowledge, anywhere else that Anna Williams actually said that about a gun. <modsnip>

Since Websleuths vetted GH to supply information to us, and they don't do so lightly, I believe whomever and whatever GH is discussing has being vetted by him to Websleuth's standards. IMO

 

[Marzipan]

I see MS has a new podcast out and the title includes RL and the Klines. Wonder if they have connected them. I’m in a family zone all day and can’t listen but very curious. I don’t think RL is involved but his activities do bring pause. If he knew Klines (like he knew GK) more pausing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't put much stock in this. If we hear it directly from Anna, then yes. If I hear it from GH saying Anna told him then that is second hand information and I don't give it much weight, if any. But here this sounds like someone is telling GH that Anna told him and he is relaying this to GH. That would be, what, third hand information. We have no confirmation from Anna here or, to the best of my knowledge, anywhere else that Anna Williams actually said that about a gun. <modsnip>

This is an interview with Anna Williams. I have listened to it and somewhere in it she talks about listening to the audio from the bridge that LE allowed the families to do. You’ll have to find it yourself, sorry, although all of the interview is worth a listen. I don’t remember for sure if she mentions a gun here, but I do remember hearing it said numerous times.

 

[HistoryNut]

i am just curious why so many repeat the assumption ..that x had a rule in the murder or knew about it or BG ?
what exactly hints at others knowing about this crime and how exactly ...

I think its because LE knew that two people were signing into the AS account, or least, that's what they claimed. KK admitted that he created the account and shared his password, and perhaps CSAM, with others. The AS account chatted with Libby the night before she died. IMO, KK knows who committed the crime.

 

[IQuestion]

RBBMFF

1. I agree with your statement about if KAK was at the bridge that LE could have placed him there by now. But how are we to know this info since LE has yet to release it to the public.
2. If in fact KAK himself was at the bridge, or rather more specifically, if it was one of his many phones that pinged at or near the bridge, who’s to say it was indeed KAK himself? Could it have possibly been someone other than KAK, that had access to one of his many phones used it to implicate KAK? In my humble amateur opinion I’m leaning toward the idea that this horrific crime was indeed pre-planned, perhaps extensively. And if it was, who’s to say that this specific phone of KAK’s that pinged at the bridge, was given to someone else either by KAK himself or by someone else who may have had access to any and all of his devices. LE may or may not know what person was actually at the bridge that day, but regardless we don’t yet know. And if one of his phones was used and he was not there at the bridge, it would explain why his (other) phone pinged at a house near his grandparents.
3. And I too agree with you, iamnotagolem, that I think KAK knows who did it and doesn’t want to tell (for whatever unbeknownst reason(s) to us).
4. I understand that some of this info came from the interview with him that was released, but who in the actual duck (duck goose) believes anything that that lying liar who lies, says!?!! (not me!)

moo. JMVHO. YMMV.

BRAVO!!! I feel as if we are circling similar thoughts. Do you remember the reference to the cell phone he "supposedly found" in the back seat of a cab??
(BTW..he would never use a cab..he is an Uber type.) He said he wiped it clean and then began using it? (Again another lie but he left crumbs/clues of his future actions...wiping phones clean/factory resets, etc)
How about something as simple as leaving a device (cell phone/camera/video) to the highest bidder, at a prearranged location for someone else to pick up and use?
And he knows who picked up that phone. And he knows his DNA is on that phone. So, I ask this: Do you think KAK is more afraid of 40 years in prison for "his internet problem"? More afraid of being an accomplice to murder? More afraid of associations with weed dealers? (Hah, perish the thought.) Or the wrath of exposing the names of all the individuals who used his "service portals" ? (possible) Or afraid his Daddy will never speak to him again? (I have no idea, but has anyone here had to turn in a parent for a crime?)

 

[sunshineray]

Just listening to Anna Williams interview again from last year to see if someone asked about the audio from the monents of confrontation with the girls and BG. It was touched on by one of the hosts vaguely but never by an online questioners or really addressed directly to Anna.


What I did notice and it's very upsetting in hindsight, as this interview was before the anthony_shots information and KAK's arrested occured, is that Anna mentions at
15:20 that the FBI looked at online stuff and gives the quick impression nothing came of it.


Then at 17:33 someone online asks a more pointed questioned about whether the girls were "tracked" online etc... Anna goes into a much more detail taljbabout that. As I said above it's just very upsetting to hear her confidently say the exact opposite to what was actually true.


Libby was catfished online by anthony_shots account (account creator KAK or possibly KAK's father using said account and/or any number of possibles if that account was shared as has been supposed).


A person using KAK account was the last to communcate with Libby on the day she was murdered as spoken about in the 194 page redacted interrogation by LE of KAK.


Libby and Abby, by way of her accompanying Libby that day, were lured to a meeting the day they were murdered via that same account, verified by anthony_shots user to Libby's friend mentioning the girls were killed. That was also in that 194 page redacted interrogation.


Finding the girl's murderer(s) was only one of the things the FBI was trying to accomplish early on after the KAK search warrant. I understand the reasoning behind wanting to investigate the huge Crimes Against Children network uncovered by KAK/anthony_shots...many children needing help, protection, justice vs the two. But for LE to mislead so thoroughly the Delphi families and the community about the catfishing facts was very sad, unfortunate and dangerous. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

This is a off topic of the current flow of conversation, but if anyone knows why there is no more video of bridge guy shown from the recording, I would love to hear it. I understand the concerns of showing the girls faces (can't you blur out faces?) and their voices (can't they be muted?), but is there really no more than a 2 second clip of this criminal available for the public to review?

I couldn't agree with you more. IF LE doesn't yet know the identity of the girl's killer(s), releasing more of BG's walking may be an important tool in identifying him. Same goes for any other audible words spoken by BG. That LE haven't either means there's no more viable media to release or there's no need to release anything more. JMO

 

[AC4RD]

... He already admitted to making money designing websites, posting menus for restaurants. (Would no doubt include photos, locations, hours of operation etc.) Heck he probably even knows how to set an online payment system for the restaurants, too! And, he even bragged at how easy it was for him to create from his phone, alone! What if he had a site that required a "password to access" the content he posted. Why do you think detectives brought up the marijuana delivery company KK had??? HE DIDN'T SELL MARIJUANA, HE SOLD THE DELIVERY SERVICE.... We know he lies about everything, ....

I agree with most of your post, absolutely. But I'd quibble about this: He CLAIMED to make money designing websites and creating menus for restaurants. On his cellphone. That he didn't have phone service for, so he had to use wifi. I think that's BS, personally. I know someone who does web design and he doesn't use a darned cellphone, no way. Creating menus on a celllphone with wifi? I'd say "more lies from a liar," in my opinion.

And the "Dandy Dope Delivery" business--c'mon. The guy didn't have a valid driver's license. If he's stopped with reefer AND no license, he's goiing to jail--and I've heard Las Vegas is tough on that. I think all that "online expertise" stuff is just like being a heavily armed park ranger, or a stand-in guitarist for a big band--a fantasy life created by a slug who has no skills, no money, and darned few friends.

As I say, most of your message is dead-on correct, IMO, but I don't believe a darned word he says about skills or money or popularity or anything else. There's not a single proven thing about KAK's life that shows any sign of any actual skills. I went to high school with a guy like that--it's sad. I would feel sorry for him except that he admits being a child-*advertiser censored* freak and sounds like he would have been a child molester if he hadn't been stopped. IMO if KAK hadn't gone to jail, he would have wound up, in a few more years, living in his car somewhere. MHO.

 

[sunshineray]

I see MS has a new podcast out and the title includes RL and the Klines. Wonder if they have connected them. I’m in a family zone all day and can’t listen but very curious. I don’t think RL is involved but his activities do bring pause. If he knew Klines (like he knew GK) more pausing.

Just starting to listen and I think the discussion is not that they're connected but that people think because of the new RL info that the K's are less suspect. In the written synopsis of the podcast it even mentions Libby and Abby posters being taken down in the area because of this. That's shocking, if true.

The Delphi Murders: Ronald Logan and the Klines

Today we are going to discuss both the case against Ronald Logan and the case against the Klines-- and we will also explain why we feel that the case against the Klines is more interesting. Over the last couple of weeks, we have received reports that people in the Delphi area have begun to...

art19.com

 

[JnRyan]

Since Websleuths vetted GH to supply information to us, and they don't do so lightly, I believe whomever and whatever GH is discussing has being vetted by him to Websleuth's standards. IMO

Do you have anything from WS where they vetted the gun story from Anna Williams? This is the only place I've seen it mentioned and I've not seen the third hand information corroborated with a direct quote from or an interview with Anna Williams.

 

[JnRyan]

This is an interview with Anna Williams. I have listened to it and somewhere in it she talks about listening to the audio from the bridge that LE allowed the families to do. You’ll have to find it yourself, sorry, although all of the interview is worth a listen. I don’t remember for sure if she mentions a gun here, but I do remember hearing it said numerous times.

I've heard this interview more than once and I don't believe a gun is mentioned. This is one of the better interviews of the family members. They also had two other good interviews - one with Liberty's grandparents and another with her mother.

 

[carbuff]

And the "Dandy Dope Delivery" business--c'mon. The guy didn't have a valid driver's license. If he's stopped with reefer AND no license, he's goiing to jail--and I've heard Las Vegas is tough on that. I think all that "online expertise" stuff is just like being a heavily armed park ranger, or a stand-in guitarist for a big band--a fantasy life created by a slug who has no skills, no money, and darned few friends.

snipped by me.

I think you're partly right, but I think the main function is to provide an explanation/cover for the money he made from the dropbox operation and related activities. No way he was doing that for free.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Interesting also that on pg. 2, item 4, it states that the girls were "found dead by wounds cause by a (blacked out ) weapon. If you compare the number of letters that would make up the blacked out word, to the lines of typing above and below, it appears that the word it approximately 6 letters long. I know that "sharp" contains 5 letters, but I'm assuming that is the word?

Could be. Or perhaps it could be a 7 word letter like hatchet?

Just guessing.

 

[DancingMuse]

Could be. Or perhaps it could be a 7 word letter like hatchet?

Just guessing.

UA,
I wonder too. Thank you for being so relentless in your questioning and examining of details.

"Bladed" weapon? (Only 6 letters though)

According to wiki:
Bladed weapons

Featured snippet from the web​

An edged weapon, or bladed weapon, is a melee weapon with a cutting edge. Bladed weapons include swords, daggers, knives, and bayonets. Edged weapons are used to cut, hack, or slash; some edged weapons (such as many kinds of swords) may also permit thrusting and stabbing.

 

[JnRyan]

This is another Jason Hebert/Grotto interview, this time with Mike and Becky Patty. Mike mentions the car at the CPS bldg that day at about 1:06:30

 

[ArmchairDefective]

That sounds like a wonderful childhood with all the fun and dangerous risks and not-too anxious parents of bygone generations for most of us. Fun. So, I like your point about age and balance, and it’s another good reason to think he is younger. But why don’t you see JBC or KK as potentially BG, if I may ask?

The pictures I've seen of KK are of an obese person. I would describe Bridge Guy as not more than possibly "stocky" (and layers could be making him look larger than he is). I don't think it's much a leap to assume that KK is somehow involved in the murders, but I don't see his build as being a match for BG.