Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Ravenmoon]

Do we know what app the A_S account was on?

At least:
Yubo
Instagram
Kik

JMO

 

[Nobody_special]

At least:
Yubo
Instagram
Kik

JMO

And Snapchat.

 

[BNA]

While I agree it is possible that the K(s) were basically the middle man between the killer and L, I have to ask myself why the K(s) would do all the communicating and meetup planning for a third party who would never take over communications for himself? What would the K(s) get from that, really, aside from maybe some money?

In kind payments, perhaps?. For instance, complementary tickets to events like Colts games and such. (Which is, admittedly, a reference to my personal POI,making my opinion on this a possible case of confirmation bias. No apologies, tho.)

 

[IQuestion]

While I agree it is possible that the K(s) were basically the middle man between the killer and L, I have to ask myself why the K(s) would do all the communicating and meetup planning for a third party who would never take over communications for himself? What would the K(s) get from that, really, aside from maybe some money?

Even if L's location on Feb. 13 was shared with a third party, known or unknown to the K(s), then what about the ski mask peeper one week later? Another shared communication and location with a silent third party? And always local? This goes way beyond CSAM sharing, if that's the case.

I have a hard time with that. I believe the motive behind creating the a_shots account, which subpoenas linked directly to the Peru house, was for the sole benefit of the user(s), who again, apparently used it from the Peru house (and Vegas) over days, weeks, and month, via KAK's devices. JMO

I am a slow reader. Lots of information to absorb, filter and process. It is impossible for me to ignore details from the transcript. Among the most obvious was the mention of "drop box accounts" and KAK was literally exposed as "the middle-man" with his smart aleck comment, "Lots of people have drop boxes." Maybe someone should tell KAK unemployed young men without an on-going business, DO NOT HAVE/OWN DROP BOX ACCOUNTS. (Little out of my depth technically...but here goes) KAK owned a drop box, for peer-to-peer communications, which required a code to access its contents/data/photos (shots?). Did he willingly give access to the account, or did users have to purchase the code to access the drop box? Gamers can charge viewers money to watch them play/compete. KAK could have charged $$ to access the encrypted codes to his drop box. Remember, they are not paying for the product, just for the access! Sound familiar? Iirc marijuana, menus, Mondays and minors (and a few more unwritten "M's".)
PS. You can obtain a drop box for free, but it has only limited storage.

 

[TL4S]

I am a slow reader. Lots of information to absorb, filter and process. It is impossible for me to ignore details from the transcript. Among the most obvious was the mention of "drop box accounts" and KAK was literally exposed as "the middle-man" with his smart aleck comment, "Lots of people have drop boxes." Maybe someone should tell KAK unemployed young men without an on-going business, DO NOT HAVE/OWN DROP BOX ACCOUNTS. (Little out of my depth technically...but here goes) KAK owned a drop box, for peer-to-peer communications, which required a code to access its contents/data/photos (shots?). Did he willingly give access to the account, or did users have to purchase the code to access the drop box? Gamers can charge viewers money to watch them play/compete. KAK could have charged $$ to access the encrypted codesto his drop box. Remember, they are not paying for the product, just for the access! Sound familiar? Iirc marijuana, menus, Mondays and minors (and a few more unwritten "M's".)
PS. You can obtain a drop box for free, but it has only limited storage.

Indeed, that CSAM dropbox was likely a heavily trafficked two-way street, with CSAM being bought, sold, traded and shared. It's quite possible that L's photos, personal details, and whereabouts were shared in this manner. I think that's plausible, just like the wifi pirating is plausible.

Where I get caught on, though, is that the dropbox, while sickeningly disturbing at its core, was for CSAM. If L's information was shared and it led to their deaths, that goes beyond CSAM and into murder. There's a niche for that online, too (unfortunately), so admittedly, this all could have been part of the normal flow of data for that dropbox. Who knows. But due to KAK's devices constantly searching Delphi related stuff in Vegas, along with DNA and IP address, and continued communication with L and her friends, post death, and a_shots confessing they were supposed to meet, etc., it seems suspicious to me that whoever was doing that in Vegas was more invested than just a shared link through dropbox.

And then, after knowing fully that the two girls had been killed, if KAK or other user knew their shared information had resulted in death, and they were concerned enough it would be traced back to them that they were researching it and following the case, why would they then share another girl's information one week later to ski mask peeper? This is assuming BG and ski mask peeper are the same person (I think they are). Now the user would be knowingly setting up murders, maybe snuff. If they were so worried about being linked digitally or through DNA to the Delphi crime, why continue sharing this kind of information? i guess that's where I'm stuck with the idea of a third party. Jmo.

 

[TL4S]

Whether or not that 2020 interview was released purposefully or by accident, I don't think it being in the public is necessarily damaging to the case IF LE has other, more specific communications. For example, if they have a communication with L on the morning of Feb. 13, where she says she's heading to the bridge, or maybe search history on KAK's device, looking up her address, or directions to the bridge, etc. Those would be pieces of evidence they might very well have held back from KAK during the interview.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Indeed, that CSAM dropbox was likely a heavily trafficked two-way street, with CSAM being bought, sold, traded and shared. It's quite possible that L's photos, personal details, and whereabouts were shared in this manner. I think that's plausible, just like the wifi pirating is plausible.

Where I get caught on, though, is that the dropbox, while sickeningly disturbing at its core, was for CSAM. If L's information was shared and it led to their deaths, that goes beyond CSAM and into murder. There's a niche for that online, too (unfortunately), so admittedly, this all could have been part of the normal flow of data for that dropbox. Who knows. But due to KAK's devices constantly searching Delphi related stuff in Vegas, along with DNA and IP address, and continued communication with L and her friends, post death, and a_shots confessing they were supposed to meet, etc., it seems suspicious to me that whoever was doing that in Vegas was more invested than just a shared link through dropbox.

And then, after knowing fully that the two girls had been killed, if KAK or other user knew their shared information had resulted in death, and they were concerned enough it would be traced back to them that they were researching it and following the case, why would they then share another girl's information one week later to ski mask peeper? This is assuming BG and ski mask peeper are the same person (I think they are). Now the user would be knowingly setting up murders, maybe snuff. If they were so worried about being linked digitally or through DNA to the Delphi crime, why continue sharing this kind of information? i guess that's where I'm stuck with the idea of a third party. Jmo.

Does LE have digital record of the A_shots account telling L’s friend he was supposed to meet up with her and she never showed? Or was it a verbal statement from the friend? Just curious.

 

[TL4S]

Does LE have digital record of the A_shots account telling L’s friend he was supposed to meet up with her and she never showed? Or was it a verbal statement from the friend? Just curious.

Good question. I'm not sure.

 

[IQuestion]

Indeed, that CSAM dropbox was likely a heavily trafficked two-way street, with CSAM being bought, sold, traded and shared. It's quite possible that L's photos, personal details, and whereabouts were shared in this manner. I think that's plausible, just like the wifi pirating is plausible.

Where I get caught on, though, is that the dropbox, while sickeningly disturbing at its core, was for CSAM. If L's information was shared and it led to their deaths, that goes beyond CSAM and into murder. There's a niche for that online, too (unfortunately), so admittedly, this all could have been part of the normal flow of data for that dropbox. Who knows. But due to KAK's devices constantly searching Delphi related stuff in Vegas, along with DNA and IP address, and continued communication with L and her friends, post death, and a_shots confessing they were supposed to meet, etc., it seems suspicious to me that whoever was doing that in Vegas was more invested

Respectfully snipped for focus:
"Indeed, that CSAM dropbox was likely a heavily trafficked two-way street, with CSAM being bought, sold, traded and shared. It's quite possible that L's photos, personal details, and whereabouts were shared in this manner. I think that's plausible, just like the wifi pirating is plausible.

Where I get caught on, though, is that the dropbox, while sickeningly disturbing at its core, was for CSAM. If L's information was shared and it led to their deaths, that goes beyond CSAM and into murder. There's a niche for that online, too (unfortunately), so admittedly, this all could have been part of the normal flow of data for that dropbox. Who knows. But due to KAK's devices constantly searching Delphi related stuff in Vegas, along with DNA and IP address, and continued communication with L and her friends, post death, and a_shots confessing they were supposed to meet, etc., it seems suspicious to me that whoever was doing that in Vegas was more invested than just a shared link through dropbox."

Oh TL4S I don't think you'll be stuck on anything for very long!! LOL...you already figured out the other 2 "M's" Murder and money.
Your posts really makes me think, explore other possibilities. So, was KAK planning to "runaway" because he suspected his father? Or did he want to runaway before his father found out he might (albeit through internet access) be involved in the heinous murder of two beloved girls? Does anybody really believe KAK went to Vegas with his Dad, failed to score a big marijuana buy on Craig's List, found a phone in a rental car, immediately began using the "fortuitously found phone" for another online enterprise/site "Kline Photos." (Wonder what type of photos could be accessed from Kline Photos? I sincerely doubt he was planning a travel log.) Ha! Yah, that's what I would do if my Craig's List drug buy fell through...besides, the Fed's and FAA probably don't look fondly on suitcases full of marijuana being flown to Indiana. Go figure.
Anybody typing the transcript of his session with Det V must have stopped to laugh an awful lot. I tried to tell someone the scenario KAK presented about his Vegas Vacay and couldn't help but laugh out loud myself.
****edited to ask: How was KAK going to get the seed money to pay for the "mega dope deal" he claims was going to net him thousands???

 

[Arkay]

I am a slow reader. Lots of information to absorb, filter and process. It is impossible for me to ignore details from the transcript. Among the most obvious was the mention of "drop box accounts" and KAK was literally exposed as "the middle-man" with his smart aleck comment, "Lots of people have drop boxes." Maybe someone should tell KAK unemployed young men without an on-going business, DO NOT HAVE/OWN DROP BOX ACCOUNTS. (Little out of my depth technically...but here goes) KAK owned a drop box, for peer-to-peer communications, which required a code to access its contents/data/photos (shots?). Did he willingly give access to the account, or did users have to purchase the code to access the drop box? Gamers can charge viewers money to watch them play/compete. KAK could have charged $$ to access the encrypted codes to his drop box. Remember, they are not paying for the product, just for the access! Sound familiar? Iirc marijuana, menus, Mondays and minors (and a few more unwritten "M's".)
PS. You can obtain a drop box for free, but it has only limited storage.

I'm a very quick reader, but I'm a tech idiot.

Yesterday is the first time I could bring myself to read the entire 194 page transcript.

I was lost in the questions and answers regarding dropboxes, but certainly understood the text and image exchanges between Emily Anne and children, and between Anthony_shots and children. Also the conspicuous lies told by KAK as he tried to outmaneuver the detectives.

I can't unsee those descriptions of how the children were exploited and I feel filthy just for having read it. It did clarify issues for me, but ugh.

 

[IQuestion]

I'm a very quick reader, but I'm a tech idiot.

Yesterday is the first time I could bring myself to read the entire 194 page transcript.

I was lost in the questions and answers regarding dropboxes, but certainly understood the text and image exchanges between Emily Anne and children, and between Anthony_shots and children. Also the conspicuous lies told by KAK as he tried to outmaneuver the detectives.

I can't unsee those descriptions of how the children were exploited and I feel filthy just for having read it. It did clarify issues for me, but ugh.

ARKAY...I totally understand your feelings about reading the sordid details! After the first description I just "highlighted that section," indexed it as the "bad stuff" and moved on with the transcript. (I'm the kind of person who has to walk out of the room or plug my ears and humm loudly so as not to hear the audio.) LE and prosecutors deal with these cases/pervs on a daily basis. I know I could never do their job and they have my total support.

 

[TL4S]

Respectfully snipped for focus:
"Indeed, that CSAM dropbox was likely a heavily trafficked two-way street, with CSAM being bought, sold, traded and shared. It's quite possible that L's photos, personal details, and whereabouts were shared in this manner. I think that's plausible, just like the wifi pirating is plausible.

Where I get caught on, though, is that the dropbox, while sickeningly disturbing at its core, was for CSAM. If L's information was shared and it led to their deaths, that goes beyond CSAM and into murder. There's a niche for that online, too (unfortunately), so admittedly, this all could have been part of the normal flow of data for that dropbox. Who knows. But due to KAK's devices constantly searching Delphi related stuff in Vegas, along with DNA and IP address, and continued communication with L and her friends, post death, and a_shots confessing they were supposed to meet, etc., it seems suspicious to me that whoever was doing that in Vegas was more invested than just a shared link through dropbox."

Oh TL4S I don't think you'll be stuck on anything for very long!! LOL...you already figured out the other 2 "M's" Murder and money.
Your posts really makes me think, explore other possibilities. So, was KAK planning to "runaway" because he suspected his father? Or did he want to runaway before his father found out he might (albeit through internet access) be involved in the heinous murder of two beloved girls? Does anybody really believe KAK went to Vegas with his Dad, failed to score a big marijuana buy on Craig's List, found a phone in a rental car, immediately began using the "fortuitously found phone" for another online enterprise/site "Kline Photos." (Wonder what type of photos could be accessed from Kline Photos? I sincerely doubt he was planning a travel log.) Ha! Yah, that's what I would do if my Craig's List drug buy fell through...besides, the Fed's and FAA probably don't look fondly on suitcases full of marijuana being flown to Indiana. Go figure.
Anybody typing the transcript of his session with Det V must have stopped to laugh an awful lot. I tried to tell someone the scenario KAK presented about his Vegas Vacay and couldn't help but laugh out loud myself.
****edited to ask: How was KAK going to get the seed money to pay for the "mega dope deal" he claims was going to net him thousands???

Yeah...he's a liar, just like all his fb posts are inflated falsehoods of who he wishes he was. But he obviously had reason to think he was "f'ed" and plan ahead to pack an extra bag to leave in Vegas, specifically so he could take off after they got home. He was worried enough to do that, research IP addresses, see how long DNA lasts, etc., so why would he share another girl's info to this silent third party who he likely figured had already killed two girls, especially when he was already worried about it all tracing back to him? That doesn't make sense to me.

According to KAK's half-brother, via the MS podcast, the Vegas trip was was planned way in advance. I do believe he and his dad went, his dad's buddy met them there, and maybe KAK did try to do some kind of weed transaction. IDK, but I wouldn't doubt any of it. The significance of the Vegas trip, IMO, is that the crimes (murders and ski mask) happened all within about a week before they left, the two people who had full-time access to KAK's devices and the Peru house internet were the same two people with access to his devices in Vegas, and the type of information looked up on his devices in Vegas doesn't seem to add up to a wifi pirate or silent third party. That's just my take on it, though.

Regardless of what KAK's role in the murders actually was, the bits and pieces of information we have (if we believe them), look very bad on KAK. I think he knew it would, which is why he thought he was "f'ed." But I also think, because it makes him look so bad, he would give up the silent third party, if that was the case. He's not doing that, imo, because he's much closer to the situation than that. JMO.

 

[minazoe]

I cannot see how this is at the very least not before a grand jury. Perhaps KAK needs to be presented with actual reality in order to give it up. I think 1st degree murder charges in a DP state would loosen his mouth considerably. I mean maybe they could do the charge where he is responsible, even though they cannot place him at the scene...or prove it..kind of like in the Rebecca Zahau case..although that was in a civil court.

there has to be a way to push this mystery forward..to not rely so heavily perhaps on the electronic footprints etc..maybe more door to door detective work is needed.

It is possible the FBI has infiltrated this pile of pedophiles..there is no doubt..so possibly bigger issues at play with coming forward now and putting the case out there...especially a case with so many tentacles and possible connecting cases..

sadly a lot of bad stuff going down in Indiana.

mOO

 

[IQuestion]

At least:
Yubo
Instagram
Kik

JMO

Thank RAVENMOON.... also found on/used Safari , Meetme and Fb (from the probable cause affidavit). And, this little nugget or boulder (depending on your view point) "The evidence contained in these applications were destroyed when the user deleted them from the device before turning it into law enforcement."
***The following is only my opinion: Destroying evidence in a double homicide investigation, wow. And he(KAK) knew why LE took him to the station in the first place. So his destruction of evidence was not accidental, it was an intentional act. Tech actions I don't think his father was capable of performing on his own.

 

[M. Kay]

Though I've watched Monan High Bridge and park footage, I've never seen spaces
portrayed as well as this drone from YouTube. I don't know how to source it other than to say the manager comments carefully in respect for the girls. He appears in some shots from far away, just to show proportion. SoI think this is within TOS:

.

Title is "Drone Footage Mary Gerard to Monan High Bridge." Could be it's already been posted here and I missed?

 

[M. Kay]

Title is "Drone Footage Mary Gerard to Monan High Bridge." Could be it's already been posted here and I missed?

Video posted a moment ago did not open here correctly. I apologize and don't know how to remove #495 two minutes ago; hope someone will delete it for me. WOOPS

 

[Pitsleuth]

I cannot see how this is at the very least not before a grand jury. Perhaps KAK needs to be presented with actual reality in order to give it up. I think 1st degree murder charges in a DP state would loosen his mouth considerably. I mean maybe they could do the charge where he is responsible, even though they cannot place him at the scene...or prove it..kind of like in the Rebecca Zahau case..although that was in a civil court.

there has to be a way to push this mystery forward..to not rely so heavily perhaps on the electronic footprints etc..maybe more door to door detective work is needed.

It is possible the FBI has infiltrated this pile of pedophiles..there is no doubt..so possibly bigger issues at play with coming forward now and putting the case out there...especially a case with so many tentacles and possible connecting cases..

sadly a lot of bad stuff going down in Indiana.

mOO

I completely agree. I was leaning toward KAK not being involved…until I read the transcript. I now fully believe there is no way that and/or his CSAM accounts are not involved. He talked to her the DAY OF the murders. And subsequently deleted everything on the second phone that would link him directly to LG. I’m guessing it’s the lack of physical evidence tying him to the scene that is holding back a Grand Jury hearing. My only lingering question: is KAK smart enough to pull of something like this and leave no (physical) evidence? I always pictured a cold, calculated killer that had done it before and likely would again. And he just doesn’t strike me as such. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

I completely agree. I was leaning toward KAK not being involved…until I read the transcript. I now fully believe there is no way that and/or his CSAM accounts are not involved. He talked to her the DAY OF the murders. And subsequently deleted everything on the second phone that would link him directly to LG. I’m guessing it’s the lack of physical evidence tying him to the scene that is holding back a Grand Jury hearing. My only lingering question: is KAK smart enough to pull of something like this and leave no (physical) evidence? I always pictured a cold, calculated killer that had done it before and likely would again. And he just doesn’t strike me as such. MOO

I think, KAK/TK could have had more motive to kill than any other person, BUT: how did he/they escape so very quickly? Can't imagine KAK or TK or even both to be able to disappear from the crime scene into nothing. That would require a quite different type of man/men, I'm always believing. Much bolder and, above all, incredibly fast in everything, he/they did.

 

[minazoe]

you know I think this person stayed calm cool and collected and got out of there with ease...wether in a car, on a bike or if he simply walked off into the woods to emerge later for the search. He just didn't get caught..he blended into the environment.

this is another piece that dogs could have helped to discover..

 

[IQuestion]

We’re 5+ years out and I was thinking maybe it’s time to see where we all are on this case.

THE basic questions:
-who do you think BG is
-who do you think killed Libby and Abby
The rules are:
-names only, no commenting on why you think this(we’ve all been here long enough, we know)
-if it’s a WS approved POI, name them
-if it’s a name only from social media, just say “named other“
-“unknown” is a choice too
-if it‘s more than one, name them

Of course there is no right and wrong answer. I’d happily be wrong for LE to finally make an arrest.

I’ll go first.

BG: James Brian Chadwell
Killer: James Brian Chadwell and Tony Kline

STARRYSTARRYNIGHT...You indicating JBC as BG got me searching his history. OMG...he is so creepy. No matter what, he'd be on my radar for every criminal violation for the last two decades within a 100 mile radius!! His photos of train trestles & sleeping under bridges actually caused a virtual OMG moment for me. He is one scary dude. These "millennial criminal pervs" really take to the internet stuff...TikTok, FB etc. Suddenly, I find my fear of tech and lack of skills not so embarrassing. The only issue I have about him is "He is too obvious." If that makes sense? ISP Carter's "you are hiding in plain sight" makes me equate this crime to someone who doesn't have a criminal past, someone who you would never expect, someone who is quickly discharged as a suspect because they looked/sounded clueless.
I can kind of seeing an officer saying, "We picked up the phone of an over weight 22 year old guy who lives in his dad's house and his phone has some *advertiser censored* on it." Response: Yah, him and 20,000,000 others and he doesn't have a criminal past...move along to someone else." IMO, KAK is the "wall flower" suspect hiding in plain sight. Just look at what he was able to get minors to do just by hiding behind a hand held cell phone and pretending to be an attractive, high flying hottie?
The most dangerous snake is not the one you see on the path, it is the one you didn't see.