Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[AC4RD]

I know I will not be popular and I in no way question the goodwill, integratory or abilities of a well-known True Crime Personality.
[... ... ]

Sorry for my alternative thoughts and no offence meant to the Youtube Personality ultimately you plotted where the girls were and where the video was taken from like us you do not know what happened after the video.

(snipped for focus) Snow, amigo, nobody here is likely to think you're questioning our goodwill, intelligence, or personal hygiene. Thing is, I suspect that MOST of us who have wondered about this case for very long have re-thought things, changed their minds about this or that, found new data that changed their opinions. Speculate freely, Brother (or Sister, or Non-Binary Member)!

We've almost all been there and the overwhelming majority of us are absolutely used to people with different opinions. We don't mind! We welcome speculation, theories, ideas, and WAG (wild-a55 guesses.) We're all still friends!

Speaking of half--baked speculation and guessing, I was pondering this recently. This may be absolutely incorrect, only true in the Southern Hemisphere (where theories go down the drain in the opposite direction), dumb, whatever, but I'll invite critical rebuttal. Ready?

It is often noted that police have not specifically called KAK a suspect or a POI in the Delphi murders, right? The lawn forcement community (I think!) has only discussed KAK's incarceration and approaching trial with reference to the CSAM. Not mentioning the murders in connection with KAK at all, is that still true?

So here's my wild-a55 speculation: What if LE and the prosecution already have some reasonably significant evidence linking KAK to the murders? We don't know what they have; they certainly aren't mentioning whatever actual evidence they may have. So imagine they have some evidence that incriminates KAK. Is it plausible to imagine that they're staying resolutely silent about KAK and the murders and this hypothetical evidence? KAK is in jail and he is clearly not going anywhere soon, so they don't have to worry that he will disappear.

And they are staying silent (in this hypothesis) because as soon as he is named as a POI his lawyers would have information they could use in whatever defense they prepare? I think there's no "discovery" until arraignment or a trial date is set, though I don't know for sure. But for now, he's safely in jail, and the police can develop a case (if they do have one) without legal interference?

Just speculating. BTW, thanks to all of you who welcomed me back.

 

[Ravenmoon]

where is the ethics in true crime as entertainment
when they released the interrogation .. they made the families and the living victims go thru the worst .. in what way do we advance a case by releasing something like that except to feed the curious public and they talk about justice !

I understand what you are saying (I think)
But, remember that the interest in true crime , for some, goes beyond entertainment.
Many people that follow these stories have suffered losses due to the devious actions of people that could not , or would not , adhere to normal societal standards .
The interrogation release may look like, and at times act like, a circus. But there IS information that could be valuable for others to learn and know. This could be community members, family members, people that knew or know the K family or even people that may have encountered them or seen something that could be valuable in helping add information to a case that is being built.
LE has dropped the ball several times ( by all accounts) NOT because they are awful, but because they are human. After 5 and a half years, releasing more information could actually be helpful.
I think all of us here at WBs, feel deeply for the family. None of us want to "feed" our egos or desire to know at expense of the families. We DO , however, deeply desire that they get answers. A lot happens in 5 and a half years. BP suffered from cancer ( I pray she is in remission and doing well) RL (Once a suspect , but by all probability just a lonely drinker) has died. TKs father has passed away. Many other things have happened as well, I am sure.
What I believe that we want is for the people that love Abby and Libby to have answers, to know who is responsible will not harm another child, and hopefully that they can begin to live in a way that allows them a minuscule amount of peace.
True Crime as entertainment seems almost like a mis-label, although sadly , I am sure you are right about a minority number of individuals.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe Holeman said that about the reenactments being wrong. However, DC has stated that "DTH" was the hill right by the south side of the bridge. It was during an interview at that end of the bridge, iirc.

Yes the reference was only to youtube re-enactments and years ago at that. I didn’t watch any of these utterly tacky dramas on youtube so I don’t have a clue what they entailed although I recall it being said some used actual actors.

So one reason he might have wanted to downplay them would be so viewers didn’t get the notion they were watching the actual crime videoed as it occurred, as well as discouraging curiosity seekers from believing the youtube creators had an inside scoop or were reporting “news”. JMO

 

[JnRyan]

where is the ethics in true crime as entertainment
when they released the interrogation .. they made the families and the living victims go thru the worst .. in what way do we advance a case by releasing something like that except to feed the curious public and they talk about justice !

The key word there is 'entertainment'. I don't consider them 'journalists'. As such the same rules or ethics that apply to real journalists don't really apply to them. They don't answer to a supervisor, editor or publisher. I suppose that civil rules that apply to slander apply but those apply to any public person or entity speaking through any medium. Therefore the ethics of journalism don't apply to them, because they are really closer to entertainment than the evening news or my morning newspaper. I see their value in keeping the cases out in front of the public as opposed to reporting the news.

 

[IQuestion]

(snipped for focus) Snow, amigo, nobody here is likely to think you're questioning our goodwill, intelligence, or personal hygiene. Thing is, I suspect that MOST of us who have wondered about this case for very long have re-thought things, changed their minds about this or that, found new data that changed their opinions. Speculate freely, Brother (or Sister, or Non-Binary Member)!

We've almost all been there and the overwhelming majority of us are absolutely used to people with different opinions. We don't mind! We welcome speculation, theories, ideas, and WAG (wild-a55 guesses.) We're all still friends!

Speaking of half--baked speculation and guessing, I was pondering this recently. This may be absolutely incorrect, only true in the Southern Hemisphere (where theories go down the drain in the opposite direction), dumb, whatever, but I'll invite critical rebuttal. Ready?

It is often noted that police have not specifically called KAK a suspect or a POI in the Delphi murders, right? The lawn forcement community (I think!) has only discussed KAK's incarceration and approaching trial with reference to the CSAM. Not mentioning the murders in connection with KAK at all, is that still true?

So here's my wild-a55 speculation: What if LE and the prosecution already have some reasonably significant evidence linking KAK to the murders? We don't know what they have; they certainly aren't mentioning whatever actual evidence they may have. So imagine they have some evidence that incriminates KAK. Is it plausible to imagine that they're staying resolutely silent about KAK and the murders and this hypothetical evidence? KAK is in jail and he is clearly not going anywhere soon, so they don't have to worry that he will disappear.

And they are staying silent (in this hypothesis) because as soon as he is named as a POI his lawyers would have information they could use in whatever defense they prepare? I think there's no "discovery" until arraignment or a trial date is set, though I don't know for sure. But for now, he's safely in jail, and the police can develop a case (if they do have one) without legal interference?

Just speculating. BTW, thanks to all of you who welcomed me back.

AC4RD Great to read your thoughts..."Get Out Of My Head" (Shane Codd song says it all!)
Time for KK to man up and make decisions on his current charges.
Heck, for all I know, KK's current attorneys may be hoping for the case to move forward with the current charges as well. They may want an excuse to gracefully bow out of having to work with him. It is a lot easier to swing a deal for a client with no priors. I'm sure they are getting tired of being asked to bring snacks in their briefcases.

 

[FromGermany1]

Refreshing the timeline:

Murdered: Liberty German | Timeline | Uncovered

Timeline of events and locations for Liberty German

uncovered.com

 

[Snow_In _June]

Refreshing the timeline:

Murdered: Liberty German | Timeline | Uncovered

Timeline of events and locations for Liberty German

uncovered.com

Wow what a great resource

 

[Snow_In _June]

(snipped for focus) Snow, amigo, nobody here is likely to think you're questioning our goodwill, intelligence, or personal hygiene. Thing is, I suspect that MOST of us who have wondered about this case for very long have re-thought things, changed their minds about this or that, found new data that changed their opinions. Speculate freely, Brother (or Sister, or Non-Binary Member)!

We've almost all been there and the overwhelming majority of us are absolutely used to people with different opinions. We don't mind! We welcome speculation, theories, ideas, and WAG (wild-a55 guesses.) We're all still friends!

Speaking of half--baked speculation and guessing, I was pondering this recently. This may be absolutely incorrect, only true in the Southern Hemisphere (where theories go down the drain in the opposite direction), dumb, whatever, but I'll invite critical rebuttal. Ready?

It is often noted that police have not specifically called KAK a suspect or a POI in the Delphi murders, right? The lawn forcement community (I think!) has only discussed KAK's incarceration and approaching trial with reference to the CSAM. Not mentioning the murders in connection with KAK at all, is that still true?

So here's my wild-a55 speculation: What if LE and the prosecution already have some reasonably significant evidence linking KAK to the murders? We don't know what they have; they certainly aren't mentioning whatever actual evidence they may have. So imagine they have some evidence that incriminates KAK. Is it plausible to imagine that they're staying resolutely silent about KAK and the murders and this hypothetical evidence? KAK is in jail and he is clearly not going anywhere soon, so they don't have to worry that he will disappear.

And they are staying silent (in this hypothesis) because as soon as he is named as a POI his lawyers would have information they could use in whatever defense they prepare? I think there's no "discovery" until arraignment or a trial date is set, though I don't know for sure. But for now, he's safely in jail, and the police can develop a case (if they do have one) without legal interference?

Just speculating. BTW, thanks to all of you who welcomed me back.

I loved your post, Thanks for bringing me back down to earth again . Mind you I will probably go off on another tangent tomorrow.

Cheers
Snow in June

 

[Prime8]

Snow in June (July, August & September and all year long, I hope!) Thank you for keeping an open mind to all possibilities. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. Hmmm, a parked car near/in a cemetery would be less likely to attract LE's attention. But, a car parked for 5 hours, next to an abandoned building, might imply vandalism or break in to me. (If I was LE cruising the area.) Maybe it is just me, but I think a car sitting unoccuppied in the middle of nowhere is a lot more suspicious than one in a frequented location. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. ....something about a truck battery/unable to start in the cemetary and parents coming to retrieve it the next day? (Thud....now I wish I hadn't typed the last line.ugh.)
I want all sleuths to have a safe holiday and hug your family!

IMO, having been to the area, I don't think a car parked at the abandoned CPS building would draw suspicion. In a town with a lot of crime, it could be suspicious, or at least indicate that someone may have abandoned their car there. It's not quite the middle of nowhere, just not somewhere that probably gets a lot of outside traffic. There's a small parking lot at the trail head. It wouldn't surprise me if people parked at the CPS building who were also interested in going to the trails. I do believe it was past hunting season but it's not unusual in areas with hunting and fishing to see cars parked in random places.

 

[sandy_80]

I understand what you are saying (I think)
But, remember that the interest in true crime , for some, goes beyond entertainment.
Many people that follow these stories have suffered losses due to the devious actions of people that could not , or would not , adhere to normal societal standards .
The interrogation release may look like, and at times act like, a circus. But there IS information that could be valuable for others to learn and know. This could be community members, family members, people that knew or know the K family or even people that may have encountered them or seen something that could be valuable in helping add information to a case that is being built.
LE has dropped the ball several times ( by all accounts) NOT because they are awful, but because they are human. After 5 and a half years, releasing more information could actually be helpful.
I think all of us here at WBs, feel deeply for the family. None of us want to "feed" our egos or desire to know at expense of the families. We DO , however, deeply desire that they get answers. A lot happens in 5 and a half years. BP suffered from cancer ( I pray she is in remission and doing well) RL (Once a suspect , but by all probability just a lonely drinker) has died. TKs father has passed away. Many other things have happened as well, I am sure.
What I believe that we want is for the people that love Abby and Libby to have answers, to know who is responsible will not harm another child, and hopefully that they can begin to live in a way that allows them a minuscule amount of peace.
True Crime as entertainment seems almost like a mis-label, although sadly , I am sure you are right about a minority number of individuals.

JMO

true crime is a very successful entertainment biz now.. thats a fact
you see how crimes are advertised oN oxygen and ID channel ? exactly like horror films *advertiser censored*...podcasts are even worse .. many times i even question myself if i should keep watching and indeed i have cut my true crime shows watching
I will respectfully disagree that the release of the sensitive info about minors was of any use to anyone ...the dark web is no secret and we all know minors and even many adults are in much risk today cause of SM AND ONLINE DATING AND SO ON
if it turns out that this ( part) has nothing to do with the murders then all we did was to tarnish something ...
if you can answer how is this LEAK can advance this case at all...ill change my mind and consider

 

[Ravenmoon]

true crime is a very successful entertainment biz now.. thats a fact
you see how crimes are advertised oN oxygen and ID channel ? exactly like horror films *advertiser censored*...podcasts are even worse .. many times i even question myself if i should keep watching and indeed i have cut my true crime shows watching
I will respectfully disagree that the release of the sensitive info about minors was of any use to anyone ...the dark web is no secret and we all know minors and even many adults are in much risk today cause of SM AND ONLINE DATING AND SO ON
if it turns out that this ( part) has nothing to do with the murders then all we did was to tarnish something ...
if you can answer how is this LEAK can advance this case at all...ill change my mind and consider

No need to change your mind at all.
I think the point that I was trying to make is that for many of us - we have known someone that has suffered a terrible crime or we have personally lost someone that was victimized. Others are connected by jobs/careers. These things have drawn us to the true crime community.

I can say that I personally take zero pleasure in any suffering by family members or victims.
We are not all ghouls that want to jump on a telephone game and play.

I The release of the KAK docs actually renewed interest in the case and brought in more tips . But, like I said - you shouldn't have to change your mind. All opinions are valid when they come from the right place.

JMO

 

[IQuestion]

I loved your post, Thanks for bringing me back down to earth again . Mind you I will probably go off on another tangent tomorrow.

Cheers
Snow in June

Promise?

 

[M. Kay]

But, like I said - you shouldn't have to change your mind. All opinions are valid when they come from the right place.

JMO

I've visited here intermittently for some years, never for "true crime entertainment." Never have watched televised crime shows, reality or fiction.
Most of all I am seeking up-to-date information, as accurate as possible, with clear deductive thinking. I welcomed a recent post in good humor with wit! I'm replying to these sentences from above post for 'Ravenmoon's insight on open minds. Sometimes an opinion here seems crackpot; then later I see the clarity of it. Disagreeing is not disagreeable, nor inherently aversive. People here care.

 

[minazoe]

there has always been lively debate and interest in true crime journalism since the invention of newspapers...and there should always be open public discourse on solving crimes and justice in our justice system...this is modern open society
and the money it generates should be a secondary consideration.

 

[Boxer]

IMO, having been to the area, I don't think a car parked at the abandoned CPS building would draw suspicion. In a town with a lot of crime, it could be suspicious, or at least indicate that someone may have abandoned their car there. It's not quite the middle of nowhere, just not somewhere that probably gets a lot of outside traffic. There's a small parking lot at the trail head. It wouldn't surprise me if people parked at the CPS building who were also interested in going to the trails. I do believe it was past hunting season but it's not unusual in areas with hunting and fishing to see cars parked in random places.

Agree.Looks like lot of choice for someone who wants to walk the trail but not my cross the Freedom Btidge, a local person who knows oh intuits the van get to the trail through either highway ROW property or through the back of some 300 facing private property.

 

[IQuestion]

Refreshing the timeline:

Murdered: Liberty German | Timeline | Uncovered

Timeline of events and locations for Liberty German

uncovered.com

FROMGERMANY1 It is always nice to recap/review. I did not know a young woman had encountered BG on the path and her "instinct/feeling" on her attempt to offer a cordial salutation was rebuffed. This, at least for me, reinforces my scenario of a targeted/angry/determined crime.
The old proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." immediately came to mind. What robber passes up an easy mark and says, "No, I think I'll rob two victims at the same time."? Or kidnapper who passes up a single victim and instead decides to kidnap two people at the same time? It has just never made sense to me. (If you are polling...please enter me in the column of premeditated murder.)
I am negative <13> on a tech score of 1 to 10, so must ask: Have any of you been advised to reset your "high tech phones" in order to stop it from freezing up? Is that a common occurrence /solution young people use? Had she ever done that before? Can others intentionally send "a virus" to make your phone act up/freeze up?
I'm sure this has been discussed many times in the past, so if you just want to insert Y Or N it might work better on my simple mind.
PS...I cringe when asked ,"What kind of phone do you have?" or "Do you have a smart phone?" answer.... "I DON'T KNOW."

 

[sandy_80]

FROMGERMANY1 It is always nice to recap/review. I did not know a young woman had encountered BG on the path and her "instinct/feeling" on her attempt to offer a cordial salutation was rebuffed. This, at least for me, reinforces my scenario of a targeted/angry/determined crime.

its interesting but whenever we try to discuss this young teen witness who was ON the phone with her mom ...the post is deleted as a rumor
she is supposed to be the main witness for OBG
IN my opinion it reinforces someone who wanted a female victim and was angry ..and if this girl wasnt in an open spot with other ppl i theorise it might have her
also reinforces random picking of victims

 

[Always Stay Hopeful]

Just woke up in the middle of the night with a thought. KAK says he was supposed to meet up with LG but she never showed up. (the day the girls went missing) Has anyone heard or read where they were to meet up?

That's interesting of you to mention. That makes me wonder if it was prior to the day of her murder. Like if she made plans because she wanted to see who would show up, and had evidence that A_S wasn't who he said he was. That might be a motive to end her life. She could have hidden and waited for him to arrive.

 

[ashhouston]

that <modsnip> guy isn't the killer IMO they blew this case in the beginning by not disclosing info and then taunting a psycopath making a fool of themselves on tv. It's probably a creepy dude that lives near and just saw them alone its sad. obviously no DNA or this would be solved

 

[IQuestion]

that fat guy isn't the killer IMO they blew this case in the beginning by not disclosing info and then taunting a psycopath making a fool of themselves on tv. It's probably a creepy dude that lives near and just saw them alone its sad. obviously no DNA or this would be solved

ASHHOUSTON I appreciate your direct approach and bluntness. The "creepy dude" is a given. But, there just seems too much planning (weapons/gear) for the narrow time line, disappearing into the background and thwarting LE at every turn. Absolutely amazing to have so much randomness go unchecked. Is this a person who harbors intense hate while appearing to be a nameless nobody, milk toast ne'er do well in every day life? Would you change your mind if KK were thinner?