Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[stattlich1]

Either LE was lying, or fabricating if you will, when pointing out things to KAK, and asking him directly if he sees how things are beginning to "stack", or they were not. I think not.

Stack in terms of what?

KAK's involvement in CSAM?

or, KAK's involvement in the murders?

I wager context points to involvement in the murders.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@IQuestion I don't think we know for sure that KAK kept his searches to within an hour radius. Here's what the probable cause said regarding the locations:

PG 29
Apple iPhone 3G:
The user saved over 200 still images to this device which contained location data that was embedded into the file. Approximately 27 of the still images (ages and sex acts).... Some of the 27 images were geo-located in Indiana cities including: Bunker Hill, Galveston, Indianapolis, Kokomo, Monterey and Royal Center.

PG 32
Apple iPod Touch
There were multiple still images found on this device...
Four still images contained location data; ... were from Hammond or Royal Center, IN.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

We the general public have no idea what happened after the 43-second video, nor do we know when or where the words” Down the hill” which later became “Guys down the hill” were recorded or even which hill they were directed down.

RSBM

MOO, In the back of my mind I still question if the word ‘guys’ was said solely by BG or was it by a possible accomplice.
Since the 2019 presser LE has firmly stated that the word ‘guys’ was said by the same man who said DTH. But I’m not so sure.
With the knowledge we have now versus what we had from 2017-2021 and even part of 2022, before LE released to the public info about KAK, the a_shots account, that someone(s) was logging in and out with different devices from the same place, etc. I just can’t help but wonder if the word ‘guys’ was in fact said by the same person. I continue to question if ‘guys’ was really said right before DTH. I question these things because LE has known from the get that KAK (and/or his device/a_shots) was the last person that Libby had contact with, and they knew about the CSAM, and his house was searched, and they said that social media was NOT a factor when in fact it really was a factor. I personally don’t think everything they’ve said to us over the last 5.5 years is 100% credible. And because we now know for a fact that they omitted the truth about social media being a factor, I just cannot believe them. Not 100% anyway.
We all know that in general LE holds back a lot of information while their investigation is still active, and we know that they held back the info about KAK & a_shots for several years, so who’s to say that what they said in 2019 about the person saying ‘guys’ is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
I certainly am not convinced not am I holding them to their word, anymore.

Just thinking out loud. YMMV.

 

[MistyWaters]

Anyone think it’s a possible that the reason LE didn’t announce a possible catfishing connection previously, until they were able to put a name to it, was to prevent fuelling an online frenzy of SM participants attempting to solve the case themselves, knowing the suspect also has an online presence?

Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi murders

DELPHI, Ind. – In the three years since Abby Williams and Libby German were killed, investigators have fielded nearly 50,000 tips. But one area that could hurt their investigation are online …

cbs4indy.com

“In the three years since Abby Williams and Libby German were killed, investigators have fielded nearly 50,000 tips.

But one area that could hurt their investigation are online web sleuths who attach names and faces to online gossip attempting to solve the Delphi murders. Police warn that this practice could slow the case and put the public at risk.

Some online groups have upwards of 20,000 members, and accusations within the groups run rampant. Police stress, the bottom line is, if you have a tip, send it to the tip line.

“When you have people who are trying to solve this case with unorthodox methods, it could not only be detrimental to innocent people, but it could harm the case as well,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine.

Police concede social media is both good and bad in a years-long case like this one. It allows investigators to get messages to the public in real time. But an alternate side exists.

“We’ve seen some people trying to make their own connections by putting side-by-side photos on social media, and they’ll put names and where these suspects, that they believe, live,” said Sgt. Perrine….

….One Delphi group on Facebook has 24,000 members; another on Reddit has 30,000. Countless smaller groups exist boasting thousands of members each….”

 

[M. Kay]

yet now if you only suggest that bg has nothing to do with the klines.. you are completely shut off..we cant even speculate on that anymore its that bad

We're not shut off when suggesting speculative initials are we? KK as A_Shots was last to 'speak with' Libby', yet I don't think BridgeGuy is limited to "K's". Their business was merchandizing young girls, so guesses are proposed about possible client/gang ideas. What are these hidden persuasions in media and podcasts? Agreeing with heavy sigh, that investigation erred, yet also agreeing here with several other posters that we don't yet know what LE knows. I sure hope so!
Libby's sister "thinks she knows" (on record) She was the first person to read Libby's phone the night they went missing; told entire CrimeCon (this year?) she was so angry that she went to the grave and screamed at Libby's tombstone.
She's quoted as saying loosely, if only her little sister had told her about A_Shots.

 

[evilwise]

Why would the girls who are clearly not supposed to be meeting a boy talk about it on their Instagram? It's very likely that to cover their plans they made a lot of content about any and every possible reason to be where they were other than to meet a boy.

 

[JnRyan]

I wonder about the meet up with someone on anthony_shots being an actual plan for that day. I've heard from a couple of parents of teenage girls about the girls attire and the way they were wearing their hair. That is, if they were expecting to meet some good looking guy they weren't putting forth their best effort to impress. In the August 2020 interview with KAK, LE mentions that KAK states there was a meeting planned but they didn't show. I would think that if LE had evidence of such meet from Liberty's phone they would 'stacked' that in there. I believe KAK was just talking to be talking.

KAK talking with them online sometime before the murders has to be looked at just like any person KNOWN to be the last person to have seen a victim. But that is not evidence of being involved with the murders and that communication could have nothing to do with the murders.

I do wonder about the photos along with addresses that KAK had and who had access to those. Yet, so far I'm seeing the matter as one of LE trying to do their due diligence. This entire anthony_shots could be just another dead end and the killer was simply an opportunistic stranger who doesn't know a thing about anthony_shots.

 

[IQuestion]

@IQuestion I don't think we know for sure that KAK kept his searches to within an hour radius. Here's what the probable cause said regarding the locations:

PG 29
Apple iPhone 3G:
The user saved over 200 still images to this device which contained location data that was embedded into the file. Approximately 27 of the still images (ages and sex acts).... Some of the 27 images were geo-located in Indiana cities including: Bunker Hill, Galveston, Indianapolis, Kokomo, Monterey and Royal Center.

PG 32
Apple iPod Touch
There were multiple still images found on this device...
Four still images contained location data; ... were from Hammond or Royal Center, IN.

FROSTEDGLASS, Okay, I think I understand. The affidavit mentions those towns, but could have included other places outside of Indiana. Hmm, thinking the Feds could also file charges against him if his crimes crossed over to other states, right?

 

[FrostedGlass]

FROSTEDGLASS, Okay, I think I understand. The affidavit mentions those towns, but could have included other places outside of Indiana. Hmm, thinking the Feds could also file charges against him if his crimes crossed over to other states, right?

The way I understand is those images they mentioned were the only ones that were showing their locations. Or at least they were the only ones they needed for the probable cause.

I don't know about Federal charges but I think you're right.

When Brian Kil was trying to terrorize Plainfield, he was also texting females in other states. He lived in CA and he's in federal prison in another state. When they cross state lines, I have no idea of how the decision is made as to where to file charges or what prison to send them to.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Back in the day, there was an ironclad rule in the newspaper business that went something like this: Don't ever bring me a story using un-named sources because if you can't name your sources, you do not have a story. The other rule was: Never go off record in an interview.

As we've learned over the past few years, when sources are anonymous, even the most outrageous lies can become the truth. So I have a bit of a problem with podcasters and others who won't name their sources.

Journalists have been jailed for contempt of court over refusing to name their sources. Vetting your sources and keeping them confidential when asked are fundamental to the practice of journalism.

 

[Falling Down]

RSBM

MOO, In the back of my mind I still question if the word ‘guys’ was said solely by BG or was it by a possible accomplice.
Since the 2019 presser LE has firmly stated that the word ‘guys’ was said by the same man who said DTH. But I’m not so sure.
With the knowledge we have now versus what we had from 2017-2021 and even part of 2022, before LE released to the public info about KAK, the a_shots account, that someone(s) was logging in and out with different devices from the same place, etc. I just can’t help but wonder if the word ‘guys’ was in fact said by the same person. I continue to question if ‘guys’ was really said right before DTH. I question these things because LE has known from the get that KAK (and/or his device/a_shots) was the last person that Libby had contact with, and they knew about the CSAM, and his house was searched, and they said that social media was NOT a factor when in fact it really was a factor. I personally don’t think everything they’ve said to us over the last 5.5 years is 100% credible. And because we now know for a fact that they omitted the truth about social media being a factor, I just cannot believe them. Not 100% anyway.
We all know that in general LE holds back a lot of information while their investigation is still active, and we know that they held back the info about KAK & a_shots for several years, so who’s to say that what they said in 2019 about the person saying ‘guys’ is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
I certainly am not convinced not am I holding them to their word, anymore.

Just thinking out loud. YMMV.

I've wondered since April of '19 why the "guys" part was left out from the original sharing of the recording at the 1st big presser. Baffles me.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I wonder about the meet up with someone on anthony_shots being an actual plan for that day. I've heard from a couple of parents of teenage girls about the girls attire and the way they were wearing their hair. That is, if they were expecting to meet some good looking guy they weren't putting forth their best effort to impress. In the August 2020 interview with KAK, LE mentions that KAK states there was a meeting planned but they didn't show. I would think that if LE had evidence of such meet from Liberty's phone they would 'stacked' that in there. I believe KAK was just talking to be talking.

KAK talking with them online sometime before the murders has to be looked at just like any person KNOWN to be the last person to have seen a victim. But that is not evidence of being involved with the murders and that communication could have nothing to do with the murders.

I do wonder about the photos along with addresses that KAK had and who had access to those. Yet, so far I'm seeing the matter as one of LE trying to do their due diligence. This entire anthony_shots could be just another dead end and the killer was simply an opportunistic stranger who doesn't know a thing about anthony_shots.

I've thought in recent weeks Libby may have suspected the account was 100% bogus. However a meet-up may have been arranged, anyway. If you catch my drift.

JMO

 

[cbeagle]

I wonder about the meet up with someone on anthony_shots being an actual plan for that day. I've heard from a couple of parents of teenage girls about the girls attire and the way they were wearing their hair. That is, if they were expecting to meet some good looking guy they weren't putting forth their best effort to impress.

Are there pictures of Libby that day, at the trail? If not, how do we know her attire/hair?

 

[Boxer]

Are there pictures of Libby that day, at the trail? If not, how do we know her attire/hair?

MOO teens do not dress up to meet, MOO they rather try to be utterly casual.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I do have one question for anyone following...why did KK keep his geographic search for minors within a one hour radius if his intent was never to meet a victim of his catfishing?

In order to appear to be local and easily fit references to places and people into the conversation. Showing a connection to friends of friends of friends. He knows what his victims are talking about when they name landmarks, schools, and local events.
All a part of looking harmless and gaining trust, to eventually get a picture or video.
Catfishers typically make up lots of excuses as to why they can't meet someone in person, it's the victim that is usually asking to meet face to face.
There's been no reliable evidence that KK ever meet one of his victims in person. I'm of the opinion that KK wanted to remain anonymous and continue collecting *advertiser censored*.

 

[sunshineray]

Just came across this from 5 months back. It breaks the heart </3 I pray BP can be helped by justice soon.

Libby’s grandma speaks out about new revelations in Delphi investigation

Libby German’s grandma, Becky Patty, says she and her family were as stunned as everyone else was when a transcript of an interview investigators did with Kegan Kline went public.

www.google.com

 

[Arkay]

right ..many crimes goes against any sense, I know ... but in this case , I feel that logic might be used because we have many crumbs left to us by libby and abby along the way
like the fairy tale..
and my true feeling is that we must listen to the girls first and most telling us their story ..cause this LE has never listened to them ..not truly

I'm unsure of your intent....do you mean to suggest that we, the public, should be able to see and hear the entirety of the 43-second video from Libby's phone?
So that we can figure out who killed them due to the "breadcrumbs" they left in the video?
Because it's your opinion that LE has not paid full attention to what they see and hear on that tape?

If that is what you meant, I certainly would disagree.

For one thing, if those were your daughters, would you want a world full of strangers watching as they are attacked?

For another, LE has fine-tooth combed that video for YEARS. What are we, the public, going to figure out that they haven't yet?

Unless you think someone would recognize the killer. If that's the case I could see LE having selectively shown it in private just to very local people or someone who otherwise may have a potential knowledge of the murderer.

But that's not you nor me nor anyone else who has nothing personally to do with this case.

Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

right ..many crimes goes against any sense, I know ... but in this case , I feel that logic might be used because we have many crumbs left to us by libby and abby along the way
like the fairy tale..
and my true feeling is that we must listen to the girls first and most telling us their story ..cause this LE has never listened to them ..not truly

In what way have investigators not "listened" to the girls? I assure you they're the ones listening the most as the see every bit of forensic evidence and hear/ read every tip that comes in. In what way can the public ever know more than the investigators of an on-going murders investigation? For clarity...I mean the facts of physical evidence, interviews conducted and the combined educated/seasoned work of techs, field teams and researchers.

 

[TL4S]

Anyone think it’s a possible that the reason LE didn’t announce a possible catfishing connection previously, until they were able to put a name to it, was to prevent fuelling an online frenzy of SM participants attempting to solve the case themselves, knowing the suspect also has an online presence?

Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi murders

DELPHI, Ind. – In the three years since Abby Williams and Libby German were killed, investigators have fielded nearly 50,000 tips. But one area that could hurt their investigation are online …

cbs4indy.com

“In the three years since Abby Williams and Libby German were killed, investigators have fielded nearly 50,000 tips.

But one area that could hurt their investigation are online web sleuths who attach names and faces to online gossip attempting to solve the Delphi murders. Police warn that this practice could slow the case and put the public at risk.

Some online groups have upwards of 20,000 members, and accusations within the groups run rampant. Police stress, the bottom line is, if you have a tip, send it to the tip line.

“When you have people who are trying to solve this case with unorthodox methods, it could not only be detrimental to innocent people, but it could harm the case as well,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine.

Police concede social media is both good and bad in a years-long case like this one. It allows investigators to get messages to the public in real time. But an alternate side exists.

“We’ve seen some people trying to make their own connections by putting side-by-side photos on social media, and they’ll put names and where these suspects, that they believe, live,” said Sgt. Perrine….

….One Delphi group on Facebook has 24,000 members; another on Reddit has 30,000. Countless smaller groups exist boasting thousands of members each….”

Yes, I think that is a possibility. Even before the first sketch was released and all the side-by-sides began, these investigators were likely wary to release the catfishing idea to the public because of the CSAM case that was unfolding behind the scenes. Maybe they weren't sure the connection for awhile. Or what if LE believed there were photos of the crime, which was mentioned even in the RL search affidavit? How devastating if something so horrible was being shared via the internet and online sleuths went snooping around and putting those photos on their YouTube videos? If LE straight up lied to the public about the catfishing, they likely had good reason. Jmo.

 

[Boxer]

Such a good question. Wasn’t the A_Shots fake persona supposed to be living in NY as a model?
A guess:
Catfish, discover real address and then go peeping.