Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[sun16]

Co-sign everything you just said. I in no way think this dude is a criminal mastermind. I think he got lucky. I think he may have had plans to take the girls somewhere else, or to sexually assault them, but when they fought back or ran he killed them. I think their deaths were quick and happened not long after they went down the hill. I also think that Abby and Libby were chosen at random. I don't think he overheard their conversation somewhere or knew that they were going to be there. I think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and he underestimated how easily it would be to attack two young girls.

Spot on!

 

[apples12]

It's not a vilification. I am a citizen of California. Career criminals have that moniker because of their own actions not the states. What I am saying, prison facilities by and large have little impact on the reform of convicts, not your short term I messed up guys, hardened criminals. Someone who may have never been convicted of an assault but has been convicted of 400 burglaries over their life still can be just as dangerous, cunning and manipulative as any other killer or potential killer. The state has no responsibilities to rehabilitate any criminals unless it is written into law, they operate by paperwork and procedure. I am saying it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. Convicts and career criminals use rehabilitation to their advantage by learning how to manipulate people, victims and the system. No fault of the systems.

I understand what you are saying and I agree. Thanks for explaining.

 

[CookieMonster21]

The first sketch is not the killer.

Right, but if it was of a sexual offender as previously stated by the previous poster it could possibly mean that LE thought it was a sexual offender that did this. There is a lot of conjecture that they may not have been assaulted, this leads me to believe otherwise.

 

[NameUser]

“There’s a chance they’ve got a suspect who is already in custody somewhere else,” he says. “I’m not saying that they do, but I can say from experience that if you believe that’s the case, then you don’t need to rush. Even if you’ve got DNA, you want to be able to prove your case independent of DNA. Prove your case and exhaust everything else.”

This would make some sense of the mention of waiting for two weeks in the PC perhaps.

Am I speculating on a speculation, feels a little dangerous but worth looping it into the current timeline from PC.

 

[mtnlites]

Same here! I remember mentioning early on that I thought he was young but then they put out that first sketch which totally threw me off.

Same here. I also thought he was younger until they released the images. In fact, I thought he might be close to their ages. That first sketch really threw me for a loop.

 

[x_files]

Same here. I also thought he was younger until they released the images. In fact, I thought he might be close to their ages. That first sketch really threw me for a loop.

Do we know the reason for the release of the second sketch now?

 

[LaborDayRN]

Good Heavens, am I the only one who works, or just the only one who stays off of WS at work???

Come home to check on Abby&Libby, y'all filled 41 pages!

(Any news on Baby Sussex?)

I know that feeling! When I come home from a 12 hour shift I'm always amazed!

 

[Jabarn]

That's not likely, the bridge is quite long, and from the photos and video you can see that while crossing the creek they weren't yet being followed however by the time they were reaching the end of the bridge, BG had caught up to them, the video was taken looking back towards the man who was obviously gaining on them, it would have been impossible not to notice someone behind you over that much of a distance. I've added a map to show the relative locations to make it easier to see this.

I agree. I know earlier on, there was speculation the cemetery had some importance. It makes sense it would, looking at your map. Is there a parking lot at the cemetery? I think there is, based on some possibly remembered previous discussions here, but it’s hard to keep track of everything. TIA and IMO.

 

[elmomom]

This was a very persistent rumor in the first days of the case. Never verified.

imho, this was an opportunistic killing....no disguises....no planning..except after the killing he tried mighty hard to diffuse anything that would lead to him....

we have no way of knowing if he would do it again......

lets go back to the beginning......who found the bodies?....and who was in the ambulance taking Abby to the hospital, still barely alive, but then died.....

I am thinking Carter's anquish was because he thinks the murderer is someone in a trusted position, a cop, or emt, or one of the searchers......

so who found the bodies?

When or where was this every stated?

I had not heard this either

 

[RedBeard]

I have somehow violated the rules via my photos and videos, sorry but I cannot post them anymore. Also sorry for violating the rules.

 

[PaulaDC]

Ah, ok. Thanks

See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police

 

[rhapsdy]

I'm so confused. The podcast someone posted earlier (best case worst case) was a room of fbi agents talking about the case and the new developments. The said multiple times that the first sketch released to the public turned out to be that of a sex offender that was arrested recently and cleared off the delphi case. Where did this information come from? I haven't seen this reported anywhere else... Have any of y'all?

 

[karbear1103]

Bridge Guy and My Own Opinion.

i thought it was big guy and my opinion only!!! i suck at acronyms. not a millennial lol

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

The first sketch is not the killer.

We don’t know that, do we? It could be the same person with a change of appearance.

 

[Backstroke10]

MOO they have some way of eliminating suspects.
DN was being looked last year for a short time, and then when test were due back they dropped their interest.
I don't know if there is such a thing as a poor DNA sample.
One with with enough information to tell you who it is NOT.
But not enough information definitely who it IS.

I wonder why they dropped their interest with the DNA. Maybe they have some but don’t have enough for a full profile. I’m thinking he used a knife. From the statements about the crime scene being very brutal, one would think he would have cuts and leave some blood behind. However, if he had thick gloves on and covered from head to toe, maybe not.

 

[rosesfromangels]

We don’t know that, do we? It could be the same person with a change of appearance.

Law enforcement gave clear direction that the first sketch *is NOT* the Perp. As baffled as I am, I am taking that direction.

 

[DancingMuse]

Imo it was a disguise. He had layers on so he would not be recognized.

Couldn't agree with you more, Bellecent.

MOO:

BG was confident his disguise would work. He had a larger man's jeans over another layer (What was UNDERNEATH? Could have been: thermals? waders? neo-prene wetsuit? bike shorts? black lycra runner's leggings?)

BG had all his "gear" tucked under his overly large jacket too. (What was underneath? Could have been: white plastic bag with "kill kit" easily accessible? gun? chest belt with large knife? garotte? taser stun gun? club? long rope? or a folded duffel bag to put his disguise in, afterward? )

BG might not have cared at all about the possibility of a photograph, a video or a cell phone in the possession of his victims. He confidently believed that he was unrecognizable while in the park. BG counted on looking like an older, heavier man, and might even have had a wig or false facial hair, as a final addition to his disguise. He knew he was going to exit the park through private property and never go back over that bridge.

This took planning.

 

[MassGuy]

We don’t know that, do we? It could be the same person with a change of appearance.

Law enforcement has said that the sketches are of two completely different men.

The first, is no longer a suspect.

 

[MistyWaters]

imho, this was an opportunistic killing....no disguises....no planning..except after the killing he tried mighty hard to diffuse anything that would lead to him....

we have no way of knowing if he would do it again......

lets go back to the beginning......who found the bodies?....and who was in the ambulance taking Abby to the hospital, still barely alive, but then died.....

I am thinking Carter's anquish was because he thinks the murderer is someone in a trusted position, a cop, or emt, or one of the searchers......

so who found the bodies?

Your “back to the beginning” requires some tweaking. The link to the Judicial Order to seal the autopsies is on the Media thread and declares both girls died on Feb 13th. Their bodies were discovered the following day. Nobody died on the way to the hospital.

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

Co-sign everything you just said. I in no way think this dude is a criminal mastermind. I think he got lucky. I think he may have had plans to take the girls somewhere else, or to sexually assault them, but when they fought back or ran he killed them. I think their deaths were quick and happened not long after they went down the hill. I also think that Abby and Libby were chosen at random. I don't think he overheard their conversation somewhere or knew that they were going to be there. I think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and he underestimated how easily it would be to attack two young girls.

I have the same theory. There were multiple vantage points of the bridge from all around the park. BG could have spotted them and watched them from afar and decided to take a chance and attack since there was nobody else around.