Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[MuddyTires]

Could someone clarify/provide a link if this was an unexpected/unplanned/impromptu day off (I've heard unused snow day) or an official planned school holiday (I've heard in observance of Lincoln's birthday)? My spouse is a teacher and even an impromptu day off would have some advance notice.

Others have already responded from the perspective of the girls' school.

I was someone who had previously noted that the 13th was the date Lincoln's birthday was observed in Illinois (though not in Indiana), but that in a different context than why the girls were out of school --- there was a discussion of the reasons why an adult man might have been in the bridge area at that time of day on a Monday afternoon, instead of working (there are dozens and dozens of reasons). I mentioned the Illinois state holiday because there has been some speculation that the killer might live in Illinois. Delphi is 60 miles from the Indiana-Illinois border.

 

[mtnlites]

I think I remain frustrated by the insistence that the public should know more about the details of the investigation. Several POIs in this case who turned out to have nothing to do with it have had their lives scandalized and ruined in the aftermath.

I guess I just wish people would be more sensitive to why or why not we might be given sketches or profiles at any given time. The police just know more than we do, and it has to be that way to ensure security of the investigation, to prevent copycat attacks, to ensure innocent people aren't harassed and stalked, etc...

I think there have been accusations that the police are only out to punish in this case and I think there's ample evidence that that's not the case. There is an entire community to think of. Justice for the girls is the end goal, but I can't fathom LE being willing to endanger the general public by flaying the case open and letting everyone run amok with it.

You said that a lot more politely than how I was thinking it. There's a sense of entitlement that I've seen with this case that I haven't seen much of before. If LE isn't releasing certain information then there's a reason for that. They have to weigh what could be vital information with how releasing that info may jeopardize a future case. This is a small town but they have the state police and the FBI working with them. They're not a room full of Barney Fifes. They may have been slightly inexperienced in the beginning, because they hadn't dealt with a crime like this before, but they had the same amount of training as everyone else and they've had people with them and guiding them on how to proceed. And what they've lacked in experience they've more than made up for in passion. They WANT this dude caught.

 

[Medstudies]

Your map is incorrect on at least three points:

What you referred to as "northeast" is actually "southeast", the drop-off point was at the trailhead parking lot, and the time was "around 1:30" (per Kelsi).

And not meaning to sound rude, but the label “photo of Libby” - It needs correcting, it was a photo of Abby by Libby

 

[apples12]

Law enforcement has said that the sketches are of two completely different men.

The first, is no longer a suspect.

My understanding was that sketch one is not the same as sketch two..two different men. But sketch 2 IS bridge guy.

 

[PaulaDC]

Your right!
I guess depends on how you interpret it.

And it doesn't quite matter if he drove. Just like the first sketch is moot.

 

[mtnlites]

It’s arrogance, ignorance, and a sense of entitlement.

These people watch too many movies, and have no understanding of the realities of an investigation like this.

Just look at the damage they are causing with the small amount of information we do have.

People are being accused left and right, and nutjobs are calling in tips regarding people who resemble the sketch on Facebook.

That’s exactly what the investigators do not want. That isn’t helping.

They want specific information from people who may have seen or heard something.

And they have explicitly stated this, too. They've asked for people NOT to send in speculations and theories. And yet...

 

[MassGuy]

My understanding was that sketch one is not the same as sketch two..two different men. But sketch 2 IS bridge guy.

Yes. The man on the bridge is depicted in the newly released sketch.

 

[Deleted member 230385]

I'm so confused. The podcast someone posted earlier (best case worst case) was a room of fbi agents talking about the case and the new developments. The said multiple times that the first sketch released to the public turned out to be that of a sex offender that was arrested recently and cleared off the delphi case. Where did this information come from? I haven't seen this reported anywhere else... Have any of y'all?

Perhaps insider knowledge shared among former and current FBI agents? I haven’t seen it reported elsewhere, but maybe it will be soon. There’s a part 2 of the podcast yet to be aired.

 

[raja]

Carter indicated that first released sketch, OBG, was now secondary. Have we discussed that. Even if LE has come out to say new released sketch, YBG, is the guy in the video and is the person suspected of murdering the girls. They are telling us OBG is not a POI at this time. I get wanting people to focus on new released YBG sketch. I'm not sure that the, OBG, sketch is not going to play into this somewhere even if it turns out that sketch was a red herring to throw off LE.

 

[acutename]

What makes you think this BG guy isn't organized? He got in to the park, abducted 2 kids, marched them around in broad daylight in the woods, murdered them, left the scene and although there were people present on the trail, not one person saw anything unusual and he has not been caught. Seems kinda organized to me. So why do you think he is a disorganized killer?

I am 100% convinced this is not his first rodeo. He has killed before. He will kill again, if he hasn't already.

exhibitionists are generally not harmless and can become dangerous easily.
"those who re-offended with any criminal offense demonstrated more problems in many areas of functioning. Furthermore, they were significantly younger, less educated, and had more prior sexual, violent, and criminal convictions than did the nonrecidivists. The criminal recidivists also demonstrated higher scores on the Michigan Alcohol Screening Test (MAST27) and the Buss-Durkee Hostility Inventory (BDHI28), lower sexual functioning scores on the Derogatis Sexual Functioning Inventory (DSFI29), and higher psychopathy scores on the Psychopathy Checklist Revised (PCL-R30) than did the nonrecidivists. Phallometric assessment indicated that criminal recidivists scored significantly higher on the pedophile index than did nonrecidivists, indicating greater sexual arousal in response to scenarios involving children. "
Long-Term Follow-up of Exhibitionists: Psychological, Phallometric, and Offense Characteristics

to me, exhibitionists already are telling you that they are unaware and disinterested in the social/moral norms of society and that they have the self control of a bad toddler. combine this with the strength, cunning, anger and resources of an adult, and you have a bad mixture, IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Couldn't agree with you more, Bellecent.

MOO:

BG was confident his disguise would work. He had a larger man's jeans over another layer (What was UNDERNEATH? Could have been: thermals? waders? neo-prene wetsuit? bike shorts? black lycra runner's leggings?)

BG had all his "gear" tucked under his overly large jacket too. (What was underneath? Could have been: white plastic bag with "kill kit" easily accessible? gun? chest belt with large knife? garotte? taser stun gun? club? long rope? or a folded duffel bag to put his disguise in, afterward? )

BG might not have cared at all about the possibility of a photograph, a video or a cell phone in the possession of his victims. He confidently believed that he was unrecognizable while in the park. BG counted on looking like an older, heavier man, and might even have had a wig or false facial hair, as a final addition to his disguise. He knew he was going to exit the park through private property and never go back over that bridge.

This took planning.

Who’s private property do you think he exited through?

This link below reveals a google map and the location of the parked vehicle he’s believed to have driven (it’s helpful to change the view to satellite). I notice how close the parking lot is to the main entrance of Monon Bridge Trail so rather than walking back along the edge of 300N, it appears to me he likely exited through the entrance to the trail again and then north to his vehicle, which is apparently only 5 minutes further. That’s assuming he drove away in his vehicle of course.

Community hopeful after new images, audio released of suspected Delphi killer

 

[mtnlites]

Because they’re teenage girls?

Or they butt recorded. I've had many fanny conversations over the years. Some of these phones are incredibly sensitive and it doesn't take much to open an app. I've taken many crazy pictures of the insides of my pockets. I guess it's better than butt dialing.

 

[PaulaDC]

Yes, I remember that LE was asking for anyone who had picked up a hitchhiker to contact them in the days after the murders.

This may be as close as hitchhiking and bag get:
https://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

 

[Inthedetails]

Right, but if it was of a sexual offender as previously stated by the previous poster it could possibly mean that LE thought it was a sexual offender that did this. There is a lot of conjecture that they may not have been assaulted, this leads me to believe otherwise.

We need a link that the first sketch is of a sex offender. Has this info been posted in MSM? If the link has been posted, let's bump it up.

jmo

 

[RedBeard]

I wonder why they dropped their interest with the DNA. Maybe they have some but don’t have enough for a full profile. I’m thinking he used a knife. From the statements about the crime scene being very brutal, one would think he would have cuts and leave some blood behind. However, if he had thick gloves on and covered from head to toe, maybe not.

Without the coroners report it's impossible to say, the cause of death would determine what amount of DNA would be exchanged.

 

[MistyWaters]

Carter indicated that first released sketch, OBG, was now secondary. Have we discussed that. Even if LE has come out to say new released sketch, YBG, is the guy in the video and is the person suspected of murdering the girls. They are telling us OBG is not a POI at this time. I get wanting people to focus on new released YBG sketch. I'm not sure that the, OBG, sketch is not going to play into this somewhere even if it turns out that sketch was a red herring to throw off LE.

A press release was issued the following day:
ISP: First Delphi sketch is not POI in murders

I think we just have to let it go as sketch #1 is no longer a POI.

Indiana State Police also issued the following clarification about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
• The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
• The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

 

[mtnlites]

Right. I also think BG didn't expect to be video/audio recorded, which is why I don't think he was in a disguise or faked his voice in any way.

jmo

I don't think he was in disguise either. If a prosthetic nose and dimestore wig are visible 70 feet away in a blurry, pixelated image that shows little to no detail then it wasn't a very good disguise. Considering his nondescript clothing, it seems like he'd want to blend in some-not stand out.

 

[x_files]

Th

Others have already responded from the perspective of the girls' school.

I was someone who had previously noted that the 13th was the date Lincoln's birthday was observed in Illinois (though not in Indiana), but that in a different context than why the girls were out of school --- there was a discussion of the reasons why an adult man might have been in the bridge area at that time of day on a Monday afternoon, instead of working (there are dozens and dozens of reasons). I mentioned the Illinois state holiday because there has been some speculation that the killer might live in Illinois. Delphi is 60 miles from the Indiana-Illinois border.

Three day weekend to visit friends/family in Delphi!

 

[tmar]

MOO
I'd be looking at who found body/ shared information (allegedly) on how they were found

Welcome Marple, with your first post.
Hope we have loads more from you.
We are questioning whether any of the searchers/finders may be involved.
This has occurred in other cases.
MOO.

 

[katydid23]

Who’s private property do you think he exited through?

This link below reveals a google map and the location of the parked vehicle he’s believed to have driven (it’s helpful to change the view to satellite). I notice how close the parking lot is to the main entrance of Monon Bridge Trail so rather than walking back along the edge of 300N, it appears to me he likely exited through the entrance to the trail again and then north to his vehicle, which is apparently only 5 minutes further. That’s assuming he drove away in his vehicle of course.

Community hopeful after new images, audio released of suspected Delphi killer

Would he want to go back through the entrance of the trail? I'd think he'd stay away from there, considering he'd just murdered two girls, and someone would likely see him leaving the park if he went that way. JMO