Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

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BG supposedly parks at one end of the bridge or possibly at an abandoned building further away. Randomly spots two girls alone on the bridge and high tails it across the bridge which looks somewhat dangerous to walk at a slow pace, let alone at a brisk walk to catch up to them (he isn't visible anywhere in the photo posted on snapchat). He orders the girls down the hill. Girls end up on other side of creek, roughly at a 90 degree angle from far end of bridge. BG now has to hike (probably wet, certainly disheveled unless he changed clothing) all the way back to his vehicle parked at the opposite end of the trail from where it's been determined the girls were when they encountered him. All this transpires without anyone seeing or hearing anything during the attack. BG is possibly seen by one person, if not more, although it has not been released when/where he was seen.
If BG "planned" this, then he isn't very good at planning but just got very lucky that he was able to escape undetected.

It is mid- February so possibly by the time he is getting near the road, it is no longer 100% daylight. If his pant legs and shoes were wet/muddy that might have caused some one who saw him to think twice, but he is in a park with a creek, so people sometimes get wet and muddy near a creek- it just happens even if you are not murdering people. (That said, the last time I saw a noticeably wet muddy guy hurrying through a suburban area, he was fleeing a drunken car accident and trying to avoid LE.) Wonder if any of the witnesses saw any mud or disarray.
 
Hi teeandcee...Thank you for remembering. Yes, I am a psychoanalyst ( for 36 years). Of course it is difficult to predict, but I will try to give an intelligent go at it. The cycle of this kind of murder often begins with delusional thinking left to fester. It then moves to fantasy, planning stage. Finally overwhelming emotional conflict triggers the commission of the violent criminal act. This results in temporary relief from the emotional conflict. The fifth POSSIBLE stage is for a person to realize their thinking was faulty and change (get help for) the delusional thinking. Serial killers never reach stage five. They go back and forth between stage two and stage four.

In this Delphi case, my honest assessment is that this could very well be an individual capable of achieving stage five. That is not to say he should not be held fully accountable for his crimes. But, no, I don't think he will do it again.


Very interesting! Thank you. Would you be willing to elaborate on why you believe he could be successful at reaching stage five? I’m fascinated.

I have personal experience in delusional thinking. I spent several years in therapy getting help. One of the best things I ever did.
 
I have the same theory. There were multiple vantage points of the bridge from all around the park. BG could have spotted them and watched them from afar and decided to take a chance and attack since there was nobody else around.

Your post has me thinking about the video and where Libby captured it. There is a context for what came before and after that everyone is speculating. The context surrounding that video is important to consider.

For example, the most popular theory is BG crossed the bridge quickly, after spotting them at the drop off spot, and caught up with the girls at the end of the bridge.

What are the possible vantage points (where BG sees the girls but they don’t know he is stalking them) and how he did he understand the vulnerability and make the move to do what he did?
 
This would make some sense of the mention of waiting for two weeks in the PC perhaps.

Am I speculating on a speculation, feels a little dangerous but worth looping it into the current timeline from PC.
Also if they do have him, the delay to tell the public of new info and the dramatic exhausted mindset of LE.? Possibly someone not cooperating and the need to get more evidence because that photo did not need a national press release and the video wasn't all that different.
 
You said that a lot more politely than how I was thinking it. There's a sense of entitlement that I've seen with this case that I haven't seen much of before. If LE isn't releasing certain information then there's a reason for that. They have to weigh what could be vital information with how releasing that info may jeopardize a future case. This is a small town but they have the state police and the FBI working with them. They're not a room full of Barney Fifes. They may have been slightly inexperienced in the beginning, because they hadn't dealt with a crime like this before, but they had the same amount of training as everyone else and they've had people with them and guiding them on how to proceed. And what they've lacked in experience they've more than made up for in passion. They WANT this dude caught.
Agreed. And besides all that, if it were my loved ones, I wouldn't want any more details out there than necessary to catch the killer.

IMO, it's disrespectful to insist on having access to horrible things simply to satisfy our own curiosity.

Honestly, if LE released all the recordings, we may very well wish they hadn't. Then we'd be degrading them for that decision.
 
That's a complicated question. Based on my own ideas of the suspect from everything I have read, and especially the Monday PC, I feel this suspect is not a sociopath/psychopath, is highly intelligent and friendly, has familial support, is embedded in supportive religious community, has/had a very serious mental health issue that is probably treatable such Major Depression with psychotic features, and has managed to function normally since the murder. My take is that there was no sexual assault based on time factors. I think that this suspect probably has resources to get help.

Just moo, people with psychosis usually don’t know what they are doing. What this means is that they do not usually care about the outcome. If this man had psychosis, he would not have wore an outfit to conceal his identity, he would not had stuffed the jacked with what appears to be hunting tools, a gun, etc and if he did, he wouldn’t have hidden any of it. People with psychosis do not plan, they act on whatever is going on in their heads. I also think he took off his outfit after the murders and placed them on his backpack, this may be what the witness saw and how the second sketch was derived. This is probably the reason for the new direction. This also requires a level head.

This man does not have an ounce of psychosis. I seriously think he is a psychopath and will do it again if he gets the chance. I don’t think he is approachable or friendly by any means.

I agree that there was probably sexual assault due to the short time it took.
 
Agreed. And besides all that, if it were my loved ones, I wouldn't want any more details out there than necessary to catch the killer.

IMO, it's disrespectful to insist on having access to horrible things simply to satisfy our own curiosity.
Oh, so you think it’s inappropriate to ask law enforcement to “turn the case over to the public?”

Ha! Me too.

People are literally saying those exact words though.

It’s almost as if they have no idea how this sort of thing works.
 
Very interesting! Thank you. Would you be willing to elaborate on why you believe he could be successful at reaching stage five? I’m fascinated.

I have personal experience in delusional thinking. I spent several years in therapy getting help. One of the best things I ever did.

You are an evolved human.
 
We need a link that the first sketch is of a sex offender. Has this info been posted in MSM? If the link has been posted, let's bump it up.

jmo

I think to be safe, and keep the thread open we should probably stop discussing sketch one. He is no longer considered a suspect in this case according to LE, sex offender or not.
 
No. It's not indicative that someone messed up. This is a logic problem. Akin to a Venn diagram type of thing.

Here's an example:

Child goes missing from the street where she was playing. Parents call 911. Word spreads quickly and three witnesses tell the authorities that they saw a child being dragged into a blue Toyota type vehicle. They saw a tall man with dark hair and a beard, drive off with the child. They identify the child with the one who is missing. They are certain.

When asked why they didn't call
911 they say they thought it was a parent-child dispute but how they realize it was the child being abducted.

The authorities issue a sketch based on that information and a description of the vehicle and the man, via an AMBER alert.

A year later a homeowner who had been overseas comes home and starts to hear all about the news of the kid being taken. They realize the description matches themselves. They go to authorities and tell them that their child was playing on the street that day but was not supposed to be outside at that time being so he yelled at her to get in the car. He didn't grab her or get out of the car but he was there and matches the description. His family left for a year-long job in Germany the next day, unaware that his description was published.

The authorities realize the witnesses might have seen this man and not the abductor. They realize that in the intensity of the moment perception can be somewhat skewed so while they only heard the man yell from the car and saw him motion to his kid to get in, that memory became him getting out of the car and physically shoving her inside, once they realized a child was missing.

The authorities realize they may have the wrong description. They go back through all their witness statements. They find an older lady who a year ago said she saw a man she didn't recognize, lurking in the neighborhood that day and she felt odd about him and watched him a bit. He walked around the street slowly a few times. He was short, overweight, blonde hair and no beard or mustache. Before, they made a sketch of who she recalled seeing but they had to discount her in the face of the definitive and detailed witness statements to the actual abduction itself.

The woman starts talking to neighbors about being reinterviewed.

A few months later, another neighbor discovers that the security camera they assured LE when the child was abducted, was broken due to a coincidental windstorm the night the child went missing, actually was not totally broken. Security footage from that day was preserved.

She reviews it. And sees a man walking by kids playing and staring at the kids. He's fairly visible. Short, overweight, blonde. She calls the police.

The authorities enhance the video. They talk to the kids who were playing on the street that day. A couple remember a creepy guy. The authorities work with the kids, the old lady and the video and determine the sketch never released was accurate.

That sketch is now released to the public.

Did authorities "mess up" earlier in this scenario? No. They did exactly what they should have based on the info they had at the time.

That's a made up scenario but it's one of thousands that can explain why certain evidence is published that later is changed.

We've seen this in other cases as well. Like when at first a certain car is published and then they changed what car they're looking for. This is not tv. It looks like hard work by dedicated professionals who do what they have to with what they have. IMO.
I admire the way you back all of your comments up with facts! MOO
 
Would he want to go back through the entrance of the trail? I'd think he'd stay away from there, considering he'd just murdered two girls, and someone would likely see him leaving the park if he went that way. JMO

I don’t really know other than if he had another set of clothing underneath, he might’ve done so to look like a different person.

There’s not much discussion about how the vehicle LE believes he drove fits into the timeline. If he didn’t drive, how did he leave? Did he live within walking distance, but then why drive?

Another thing - According to the ISP Press Release the girls were murdered within minutes of Libby’s audio, but then why was the car apparently parked there until 5pm? It was just after 3pm when Libby’s dad came to pick up the girls. By 5pm other family members who were alerted had already arrived and began searching iirc and the girls disappearance was reported at 5:30pm. Was he casually watching from a distance as their concern heightened? Absolutely disgusting to even contemplate...
 
Just moo, people with psychosis usually don’t know what they are doing. What this means is that they do not usually care about the outcome. If this man had psychosis, he would not have wore an outfit to conceal his identity, he would not had stuffed the jacked with what appears to be hunting tools, a gun, etc and if he did, he wouldn’t have hidden any of it. People with psychosis do not plan, they act on whatever is going on in their heads. I also think he took off his outfit after the murders and placed them on his backpack, this may be what the witness saw and how the second sketch was derived. This is probably the reason for the new direction. This also requires a level head.

This man does not have an ounce of psychosis. I seriously think he is a psychopath and will do it again if he gets the chance. I don’t think he is approachable or friendly by any means.

I agree that there was probably sexual assault due to the short time it took.

Just to clarify, I said Major Depression with psychotic features. No offense, but what you said about psychosis just is plain incorrect in its conclusions
 
Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!
 
Your post has me thinking about the video and where Libby captured it. There is a context for what came before and after that everyone is speculating. The context surrounding that video is important to consider.

For example, the most popular theory is BG crossed the bridge quickly, after spotting them at the drop off spot, and caught up with the girls at the end of the bridge.

What are the possible vantage points (where BG sees the girls but they don’t know he is stalking them) and how he did he understand the vulnerability and make the move to do what he did?
Because of the time of year, there were no leaves on the trees. If you watch the 3D animation, the creator points out several points of view where someone could have been lurking. There were also several points of access. He could have entered the park via the cemetery, which was not far from where they were found.

Perhaps they did see him and maybe thought he was acting strange or following them. Perhaps they were filming each other and just happened to have the camera rolling.... perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. We won’t know until he is caught.
 
That’s exactly the type of guy I think it’s going to be.

Young, awkward, and a loner.

An intelligent and experienced killer, probably isn’t going to brazenly murder two teenage girls in broad daylight.

I think he has a menial job, and lives on the fringes of society.

But what if he's not a nerdy kid? What if he is a completely normal looking guy with a baby face, fat cheeks, styled haircut, normal intelligence with friends coming out of his ears? What if he's somewhat of a people person who easily conversed with everyone including early teen girls? What if our girls thought him "kinda cute" because he was nice? What if Libby took his picture not because he was nerdy, but well, you know, just because she was an early teen girl and he appeared in his late teens?

Look, I don't even know that I agree with what I just wrote. I'm just thinking like a very naive and idealistic teenage girl. But again, I go back to the presser. There's a reason why this guy is "hiding in plain site" playing with power, with "maybe this much of a conscience left". There was a reason why Libby and Abby became "little girls" during the presser and why Carter said perhaps he had "told someone(s)". I'm wondering if after the last big cases I've followed if we aren't once again, dealing with a wonderfully social, outgoing, charming narcissist, who is safe to do what they do because, well, they are superior, doncha know? Now, go listen to the almost calm, "Guys-down the hill".
IMHO ONLY!
 
Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!
Ha! I think it’s a bunch of deranged people on social media, who have too much time on their hands.

If you look hard enough, you can probably see Bigfoot somewhere.
 
Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!

Someone with more knowledge can feel free to jump in (and probably has by the time I post this!) but to my knowledge any talk of stuff like that has been ruled out.

I know when my friend was first showing me the photos I thought I saw two figures on the trail behind her, but it's just the gate, as seen on other videos posted from the site.

I don't believe there's been any valid sighting of figures in the Abby picture.
 
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