Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[cluciano63]

Most of what was said in PC sounded like basic profiling stuff to me...saying what they think a suspect may be feeling, how he might be following the case, how he has people who might know or suspect, etc...none of it pointed to knowing who suspect is to me. I really don’t think they would have even had a PC if not for the introduction of the new sketch...they were forced to show that, retract the prior one. Jmo

 

[Charlot123]

I am not an expert on DNA. I am not an expert on the law but my dad, my older brother, my older brother's wife, her dad and her sister are all attorneys. I grew up around legal conversations. Once again, this does not make me an attorney. That being said, if BG spit and his DNA was found on a leaf in a public park that is not necessarily going to help convict. If BG's fingerprints were found on something, short of a weapon, in a public park, that is not necessarily going to help convict. The attorney for BG could easily say that BG had been in the park before.

The DNA helps in finding the perpetrator.

It does not help convict, necessarily. It is very informative, both ways.

Say, someone spent years behind bars for rape, and today they found that the DNA from the rape scene belonged to someone else. In this case, DNA might help acquit, too. I think the OBG who was their suspect might have been acquitted of the Delphi murders on the base of the DNA.

But after DNA points at the direction of the real killer, sooner or later, he does get caught. People leave traces.

 

[x_files]

Respectfully snipped for focus, and respectfully have an opposing POV.

Devices and social media accounts can be mutually exclusive. She could have accessed social media (Abby) from any device - even in the library. I'm stickin to this theory. My point being if there wasn't a planned liaison, she might have told him their hiking plans. This just lines up for me. But as I always reinforce...."amateur opinion and speculation only" : )

anything is possible esp if they thought they were communicating with a cute 16-18 boy.
Libby has an older brother. wonder if the suspect could know the girls through the older siblings?

 

[cfreyja23]

I am not an expert on DNA. I am not an expert on the law but my dad, my older brother, my older brother's wife, her dad and her sister are all attorneys. I grew up around legal conversations. Once again, this does not make me an attorney. That being said, if BG spit and his DNA was found on a leaf in a public park that is not necessarily going to help convict. If BG's fingerprints were found on something, short of a weapon, in a public park, that is not necessarily going to help convict. The attorney for BG could easily say that BG had been in the park before.

True; however, when you combine direct evidence with circumstantial evidence, like eyewitness identification placing him near the car or the park that day, his voice and appearance in the video, (hopefully a connection to his car being at the CPS office), there is evidence other than DNA that will lead to a conviction. The area the girls were found doesn't appear to be a well-traveled area, so I think a jury would find it unusual that his DNA was found there. I would. Especially considering it is an open area outside and DNA would be compromised by the elements.

 

[HockeyMom330]

Snipped. I now agree that he could be in his early to mid-twenties, but I'm not convinced that he would have a history of mental illness. He could be working as a pastor or youth pastor or could be a seminary student. If there is a religious connection as implied at the press conference, he could have weird ideas about sex being evil which might have led him to the crime. He might blame women for his sexual urges that he believes interfere with his calling if he believes he was "called" to be a pastor. Abby and Libby might have represented a temptation that he wanted to eliminate. If the girls were left in or near water, that could be meant to symbolize baptism/rebirth as opposed to being an attempt to get rid of DNA.

Again, your description sounds like someone who is trained as a pastor or who has a father or other family member who is a pastor and has therefore had opportunities to speak in front of a congregation.

My thinking is very much in line with yours, as I believe BG is in his early 20s, possibly a seminary student (educated and well spoken), and that there is a religous connection to Delphi. A twist on your theory that I'd like to offer is that BG might be struggling with his own sexuality. Perhaps he is gay and is hiding that from his family, friends, and church. I would think in a small town that people are less accepting than in larger cities. And, although certain religions accept homosexuality they ascertain that it is incompatible with Christian teaching. Here is the position statement of the United Methodist Church (one mentioned on this forum many times that Libby's family has a connection to):

Regarding the ministry of the ordained

• ¶ 304.3: The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.

Perhaps the incongurency of who he really is on the 'inside', and who he is pretending to be on the 'outside' led to some type of mental break on the day he murdered Abby & Libby.

 

[rosesfromangels]

anything is possible esp if they thought they were communicating with a cute 16-18 boy.
Libby has an older brother. wonder if the suspect could know the girls through the older siblings?

Never thought of that; good call out. Should def be on the rule out check list. Let us hope it was/is.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[kizzykat]

I’m new to this case and WS but have been reading about this tragic case. I have a question about the location the bodies were found. Someone posted a map the indicated they were found on the opposite side of the creek from where the apparent abduction took place.
If this is true, would someone have been able to wade the creek in February?
If BG carried/dragged bodies across the creek, did he the hike back up hill and cross bridge? Or could he have returned to car by walking along the creek?
Sorry if this has been discussed previously, just trying to think about possibilities.

This is RTV6 helicopter video from the afternoon they found the girls. If you start at the 19:00 mark you'll see two searchers in the water next to the bank near where the girls were found (located about 50' from the bank in the woods per reports). Next is a line of searchers crossing the creek. It's not terribly deep. At the 20:27 mark one of the searchers reaches down into the water, like he found something, the water appears to be about shin deep on him. The searchers are shown again around the 26:00 or a little after in much deeper water (waist deep on some) but still walking. If you have time to watch the entire video it will give you a better lay of the land.

 

[carbuff]

Yes I think these cases being possibly related have been discussed on here before, but I haven't followed that closely so could and probably am way off. I agree they could just be desperate for new leads but hopefully they have something solid they are not sharing with the public.

Earlier, we (L&L's thread) found a number of potential things that might have brought someone to both towns, including meat packing, road construction, and putting in new utility lines--all of which have lots of mobile short-term workers and use contract people. Utility installation is apparently a highly specialized field and contractors who specialize in it get jobs all over the country; the workers are in a new area for a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the project.

We had a team installing fiberoptic cable here all winter; they parked their trucks on an empty lot near us and drove together to where they were staying a couple of towns over. Last year it was a solar panel installation team. The solar panel people were from upstate NY and the fiberoptics crew from ?Maryland.

And apparently cleaning and sterilizing commercial and industrial refrigeration units to USDA standards is another specialty. Our grocery store had them in earlier this spring. No idea where they were from but the trucks said the parent company was in Pennsylvania.

My point being that in most towns bigger than a few dozen people, there are contractors and other workers coming in, staying a while, and then gone. They stay long enough to become familiar with an area, but they mostly hang out with each other. They aren't transients in any sense, but most locals never notice them. It's the kind of connection that might not be uncovered until after an arrest.

Also the kind of thing that makes me nervous when they rule somebody out because they can't establish a connection to the scene of the crime, Probably they're right--but there are so many possibilities.

 

[SilentRogue]

The DNA helps in finding the perpetrator.

It does not help convict, necessarily. It is very informative, both ways.

Say, someone spent years behind bars for rape, and today they found that the DNA from the rape scene belonged to someone else. In this case, DNA might help acquit, too. I think the OBG who was their suspect might have been acquitted of the Delphi murders on the base of the DNA.

But after DNA points at the direction of the real killer, sooner or later, he does get caught. People leave traces.

DNA does indeed help convict. It's difficult to sow doubt when your DNA is found on a victim of a sexual assault, on the murder weapon, etc...

 

[Boxer]

Either a prominent/powerful/wealthy family that covers up their odd son's behavior or is in complete denial/ignorant/choosing to be blind or...a family of criminals. Thick as thieves they say.

MOO That is the reason for Carters emotional push, and his referencing the shack, he believes the killer is getting the benefit of doubt somewhere, and Carter was using the Shack for common ground since most of Delphi must have watched.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Why do we believe they have new information?

For me it was when the LE officer said that the killer "may be sitting in this room". That's a strong statement to make, especially when family are present.

 

[MsBetsy]

What news? It seems since the press conference, there's been largely nothing else released, officially or otherwise.

I don't think they will release any more information until there is an arrest.
It's probably a good sign. They must be very busy following through with all the new tips, and, hopefully, new leads.
This could be the calm before the storm.

 

[pepper 34]

I have thought this myself. He could have senor heard someone on the and feared they would hear the girls so he had to abandon the idea of sexually assaulting them first and get the hell out of there as quickly and discretely as possible. I dont think he used a gun as that would have been heard but he had one that he controlled them with. I also think if he had shot them that we would have heard about ballistic evidence. He may legally carry and knew that LE could ID what kind of gun was used and would then search out legal owners and question them.

I think he brought along a stun gun which is relatively silent when compared with a firearm. He brought a weapon, imo, because his plan took into account that he was going to force his victim(s) to do as he demanded (and not to be used as a killing method, imo.)

I think he planned these murders down to the smallest details exactly as it happened. I don't think he'd bring a gun because, if a victim tried to escape he'd have to use that gun and a gun is noisy and would draw attention... alert people to approximate location of something going on that should not be going on in public hiking trails. People are curious and, imo, some would try to figure out what was happening by heading towards the gun shot sound and some, more cautious, might call 911. Why bring a "loud announcement" weapon he might have to actually use? A knife is quiet, too, but I think there's the danger of wounding one's self "self during struggles and, because I think this was well planned, I'm assuming BG thought of this because he's aware of forensic methods, DNA, etc. So many people are in this day and age and, in some ways, it's unfortunate that they are.

Any weapon that will cause pain and disability and that's aimed at a person from close proximity is very threatening in and of itself, imo. Most people would do as they were told by a stranger directing them if they saw a stun gun. Some use direct contact, I believe, and pushed against a person's head, neck, or back from behind would cause both victims to do as told, imo. (or if he handcuffed the girls to each other once he had them under the bridge.) I guess all I can safely say is that it would be very effective on me. I would use my time after that desperately looking for any, tiny opportunity to escape

 

[SilentRogue]

For me it was when the LE officer said that the killer "may be sitting in this room". That's a strong statement to make, especially when family are present.

The basic idea is that the killer must have known the area to reach that bridge. Who is more likely to know an area than a local? Further, a tenant of the profile of a murderer is that they often try to insert themselves into the investigation, as a searcher, a tipster, etc.. in order to exert influence on the investigation as well as to keep tabs on any new developments.

 

[SilentRogue]

I don't think they will release any more information until there is an arrest.
It's probably a good sign. They must be very busy following through with all the new tips, and, hopefully, new leads.
This could be the calm before the storm.

I think they'll gradually release more, like they did this time, to keep the interest from fading. I dont believe they are any closer today than they were on 15 February, 2017.

 

[enelram]

I think the reason for having spectators sign
in at the press conference isn't that they believed the POI was in the audience but that a close family member was in the audience.
By them signing in, this would give LE another valid reason (excuse) to talk to POI and his family again. My hunch is LE has
already talked to both. But family had an alibi for their son (POI).

Did we ever get an appx. height or weight of suspect in videos?

 

[Deleted member 230385]

Regarding when The Shack was aired at Delphi United Methodist, I went back and found the statement, thread #90, pg 22 (sorry, I couldn’t figure out a way to quote from a closed thread).

“So, I'm unaware of it's been mentioned on here or not, but the date the movie The Shack was released coincides with the very same date that the Delphi United Methodist Church had their final movie night.”

So my memory was not exact, and the connection seems tenuous.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think the killer is going to turn himself in.

Honestly, he has few choices. If he is religious (people posted it here...and he might be, given that “the Shack” was mentioned at the presser), the other option is grave sin. He will either confess, or get arrested.

From my perception, there might be even mitigating circumstances to be used in court. And especially if what this poster said about the gait is true, and what @Sneaker33 posted about steroids is true, and what @apples12 posted about his mental state is true, he might have been in a very confused state.

My feeling is, he probably presents like any other community member, but emotionally is somewhat stunted and is carefully coached by his support group on how to come across. Only now they are not giving him the right advise. (Confused and scared themselves, perhaps?).

Every day that they are waiting, they are pulling themselves further and further down that hole.

 

[Razz]

The thought that dragging them through the water to eliminate DNA is interesting but...

When I was 14, I was a strong girl. I had 4 brothers that I fought with regularly. I can't help but think one of the girls got out of the grip of the perp's hand and headed to the water to try to get away. I think he went after her dragging the other along. Once he caught her, he found it easier to bring them both to the opposite bank. (Speculating).

By this time, he must have been mad as hell. And even though as a kid I could fend off a brother for a while, they always caught me and their strength easily overpowered mine.

( Not implying this was a brother by any means, but the perp was older, stronger and mad, and even though there were two of them, they didn't stand a chance against his strength and his speed).

 

[Deleted member 278]

1. To disguise himself.
2. Came back from a wrestling match he lost badly and was angry with himself, his opponent. Must have been mocked by someone. Taunted by his coach...MOO

If he's a wrestler, wearing head gear wouldn't exactly be disguising himself.
Wrestlers don't wear head gear when they aren't wrestling.
Ask my brother. Ask my nephews.
<modsnipped personalized comment>

 

[QCD893]

For me it was when the LE officer said that the killer "may be sitting in this room". That's a strong statement to make, especially when family are present.

Another take is that they have no idea where the killer is, just point to any possibility.