Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

[CSIDreamer]

"The Last Supper: At Jesus Christ's last supper, there were thirteen people around the table, counting Christ and the twelve apostles. Some believe this is unlucky because one of those thirteen, Judas Iscariot, was the betrayer of Jesus Christ."

Ah. Thank you. I'm a Christian and had never heard that lol.

 

[Skigh]

Regarding new info. I truly doubt this is the case. But. Death bed information? Would that be considered hearsay and not admissible? But enough to say follow that guy and get some public DNA?

This would fit into the religious theme of someone wanting to make peace with God before they died.
Perhaps a grandparent who lent his car?

 

[rsd1200]

"The Last Supper: At Jesus Christ's last supper, there were thirteen people around the table, counting Christ and the twelve apostles. Some believe this is unlucky because one of those thirteen, Judas Iscariot, was the betrayer of Jesus Christ."

People who have been incarcerated relate to it too. 12 jurors and one judge. If they have a tatt, it will usually be 13 1/2 though, the 1/2 represents 1/2 of a chance.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I posted this back in March 2017:

Is there connection between the Abigail/Liberty murder and the Lyric/Elizabeth murder ?


Due to that another double murder of young underaged girls has been mentioned her on this thread I took a look at this other case and found some similarities which could point to some kind of connection between the Delphi, Indiana double murder case and the Meyers Lake/Evansdale,/Bremer County, Iowa case.

I wonder if the LE have found a DNA match between the unknown killer of
Abigail/Liberty and the unknown killer of Lyric/Elizabeth?

Here are some of the similarities:

Abigail Williams and Liberty German
disappeared the 13th (feb, 2017), at ca 1PM
Abducted in area by trails and water
Killer dumped the girls bodies on a bank by a river
Crime location connected to bridge

Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins
disappeared the 13th (june 2012), at ca 1 PM
Abducted in area by trails and water
Killer dumped the girls bodies on a bank by a river
Crime location connected to bridge


And take a look her IMO:

Abigail and and Lyric look alike and Liberty and Elizabeth look alike !

So, IF there is a killer DNA match between this two cases then it is the same killer, a serial killer ?.
If there is NOT a killer DNA match, could it be a copy killer of the Lyric/Elizabeth murder?


FYI here is a link with info on the Lyric/Elizabeth murder case :

Evansdale

I have never followed the Evansdale case. But I glanced at it. I noticed they are all approximately the same birth age. Born within a couple of years of each other.

 

[sloane7777]

That doesn’t make much sense to me. They’ve had the larger sample all along—just didn’t want to show it to the public. (Unless that ‘guys’ is the result of two years cleaning-up? I doubt it.)

Also, how much help will it be to say: “it’s the local accent.”

They just might have something to compare it to .

 

[MsBetsy]

Phones are the first thought on every young mind. Young girls take selfies and videos continuously. At least most do. A young man would know this. Its very likely that if left with there phone his face or voice could be on a photo or video or snapchat etc. With young people its a very high chance. They take snapshots, video and send them in mock speed. They know there phones better than the back of there own hands. If a young teen breaks or looses there phone its as if there life has ended. A young man would know this. Would also know he needs to do something to stop the phone from transmitting and then get rid of the phone at other place or destroy it so that no data could be taken from it. wonder if you get good signal on the bridge..or below the bridge.

A young man that has always been very poor may not have had experience like most kids with electronics. Or a middle age to older man has not been raised with cell phones and internet. The phone being left is troubling to me if perp was really young. Older it would make sense. Thats someone that isn't wired for technology I call it due to not being raised with it due to age, or very poor family, or someone that didn't use technology often due to religion or other lifestyle choice. The phone being left says a lot in itself. Or this guy has in his m.o. very high risk taking. Or simply couldn't find it.

The fact that he left the phone could indicate that the killer is confident that nothing found in the data history could be linked to him. Other than the pictures, video, and audio, which LE seems to believe he was not aware of.
So I guess that would at least rule out anybody that the girls may have had contact with through Social Media.
I think any middle aged person would know about cell phone data, whether rich, poor, or religious.
I don't think he cared. He did not take them to a different location, so it would be normal for the phone to be in that area.
What he didn't realize, was that he was being recorded and videotaped. The data probably would have been retrieved even if he had destroyed the phone.
The mistake he made was underestimating his victims. He didn't realize they were smarter than him! Imo

 

[MassGuy]

I posted this back in March 2017:

Is there connection between the Abigail/Liberty murder and the Lyric/Elizabeth murder ?


Due to that another double murder of young underaged girls has been mentioned her on this thread I took a look at this other case and found some similarities which could point to some kind of connection between the Delphi, Indiana double murder case and the Meyers Lake/Evansdale,/Bremer County, Iowa case.

I wonder if the LE have found a DNA match between the unknown killer of
Abigail/Liberty and the unknown killer of Lyric/Elizabeth?

Here are some of the similarities:

Abigail Williams and Liberty German
disappeared the 13th (feb, 2017), at ca 1PM
Abducted in area by trails and water
Killer dumped the girls bodies on a bank by a river
Crime location connected to bridge

Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins
disappeared the 13th (june 2012), at ca 1 PM
Abducted in area by trails and water
Killer dumped the girls bodies on a bank by a river
Crime location connected to bridge


And take a look her IMO:

Abigail and and Lyric look alike and Liberty and Elizabeth look alike !

So, IF there is a killer DNA match between this two cases then it is the same killer, a serial killer ?.
If there is NOT a killer DNA match, could it be a copy killer of the Lyric/Elizabeth murder?


FYI here is a link with info on the Lyric/Elizabeth murder case :

Evansdale

I don’t think there’s a connection. It’s weird, but law enforcement has consistently said that they don’t believe they are related.

Something is telling them that, and it isn’t a guess.

Besides that, it would be super weird for the Delphi killer to start his crimes that far away, and then come home (they believe he is from the area).

It usually works the other way; killing close to home, and then spreading out.

 

[Inthedetails]

"The Last Supper: At Jesus Christ's last supper, there were thirteen people around the table, counting Christ and the twelve apostles. Some believe this is unlucky because one of those thirteen, Judas Iscariot, was the betrayer of Jesus Christ."

I think it's a huge stretch to connect that to this particular crime (and I am one who thinks BG is a religious man).

IMO, Valentine's Day and the fact it was a school holiday play a much bigger role than the Last Supper.

jmo

 

[Theforeigner]

Regarding new info. I truly doubt this is the case. But. Death bed information? Would that be considered hearsay and not admissible? But enough to say follow that guy and get some public DNA?

Contact the tip-line and give the police the information:
FBI TIP HOTLINE (844) 459-5786
TIP BY EMAIL abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

 

[CSIDreamer]

Contact the tip-line and give the police the information:
FBI TIP HOTLINE (844) 459-5786
TIP BY EMAIL abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

It's not a tip they need in all due respect. But I'm taking that as a compliment.

I'm just wondering out loud. I have no information.

 

[Wells]

I think it's a huge stretch to connect that to this particular crime (and I am one who thinks BG is a religious man).

IMO, Valentine's Day and the fact it was a school holiday play a much bigger role than the Last Supper.

jmo

I tend to agree with you but I figured it was worth a mention.

 

[kate2931]

People tend not to see these things. After my son passed away his license plate hit me hard. It told me when his death would occur. literally spelled it out and said it. I cant say it in public due to its his plate but it stated it. My son also when little use to draw pictures of tall buildings being hit by planes with bodys falling out. I came close to bringing him to a psychologist because they were disturbing. Not long after the twin towers were hit by planes. My son was buried on the anniversary day of 911. People dont see these things but they are there to see. If it stands out to you then it very well could have meaning.

I wholeheartedly agree with you spirit & I remeber in the early days the numerical links to Lizzie and lyric. So Sorry for your loss

 

[Angelcat13]

People tend not to see these things. After my son passed away his license plate hit me hard. It told me when his death would occur. literally spelled it out and said it. I cant say it in public due to its his plate but it stated it. My son also when little use to draw pictures of tall buildings being hit by planes with bodys falling out. I came close to bringing him to a psychologist because they were disturbing. Not long after the twin towers were hit by planes. My son was buried on the anniversary day of 911. People dont see these things but they are there to see. If it stands out to you then it very well could have meaning.

I am sorry for the loss of your son - from one grieving mom to another. I see "signs" all the time - a song that comes on at just the right moment, numbers, the appearance of an animal, etc. After my son died I remembered something he said when he was about 5 years old - he told me that WHEN he died he wanted me to donate his organs. What 5 y/o says that? And it was completely out of the blue, we weren't talking about it or anything. By the way, we did agree to organ donation.

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr as discussion is continued in following post:

HLN special returns with Carter’s clip: “We know this about power for you. Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident you ya e told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person can do something like this to two children. I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. We believe you are hiding in plain sight.” (showing sketch over and over)

—
Male host is saying how a lot of people online are comparing the murderer to the character of Kevin Costner Mr.Brooks where he leads the double life, serial killer on one side, successful family man on the other”, showing a clip.

—-
Host asking CG “what kind of man that can do that, family man on one side, killer on the other”

Other host mentions Bundy.

CG: “You see it with almost all serial killers but we don’t know that our suspect here has done it before or will do it again.” (My opinion both are highly likely)

She says by the police saying “we are close to you is probably what’s keeping him from acting on fantasies. If there is a potential to do this again it’s only being contained y the scrutiny. That’s why they want people to call in, if someone they know changes their appearance radically, gains weight, loses weight, shaves their head, moves out of town, quits their job, any change is a reaction to this presser. Now, does it mean he will do it again because by calling someone a coward, that was very brazen, that usually provokes someone into proving they are not a coward and doing it again” (agreed, moo, risky jmo) “That means they are either really close or this person they are counting on the idea he is so contained by public scrutiny and by police presence that he’s not going to act until he trips up.”

(Hmmm, interesting)

—-

Host saying how she has a hard time with this being a “crime of opportunity”..”she has a hard time saying that someone was at that bridge, sees the girls and says “oh hey how about a brutal public murder?” (This is exaaactly what I said again last night)

Everybody is nodding their heads yes on this.

MO is saying how “this could have been a target-rich environment and on a day when kids are off school the kids are going to be there, just like during Spring Break or summer time at a college campus. That’s when you see a lot of these attacks increase. And these two girls, he could’ve just been parked in that parking lot just waiting for someone to get dropped off who for his fantasy.”

JJ, responding to MO says “would that be an isolated issue though, would this be a person, Casey, from a profile perspective who is just there, waiting for girls to come so he can do what he does or is this a person that has a pension, an inclination, and a past history of doing something like this?”

CG response: “Okay the fantasy is a trajectory and it is always there, it is usually there from a very young age. So the fantasy is there, the killers I’ve interviewed have referred to it as “the dark side” and they never know when its going to burgeon up and take over. So, the fantasy moves along usually to stalking, abduction, kill, disposal but, how long has the fantasy been there then it goes laten again do this person had the potential to do it again, it’s always going to be there.”

Male Host: “Are there red flags in a community like that?”

JSM jumps in “to this point”: “Early on the police were asked is there any evidence that there was vagrancy going on, was there camping, homelessness, people in the woods adjacent to this area and they’ve come back and they haven’t really stayed that there wasn’t, but they haven’t confirmed that there was. To me, going to Maureen’s point earlier, she thinks that this guy had a kill kit wth him, he’s got this thing bulked up in his jacket, I think this guy came prepped, he came prepared, the one thing we know about these victims is that these are two little girls, why two little girls, why not two grown men, two little girls, he is in this particular area, one more point of order here, the idea here is that this person is local here I believe becaaaause that they had specific knowledge that school was going to be out that day.”

Host interjects to say “the bridge is hard to find. It took me 20 minutes and the silence down there is deafening!”

MO adds: “And he may have only wanted one victim, he may have been fantasizing about one victim, but the c but the only victims that came up that for his fantasy we’re two little girls instead.”

JSM:
“They were just looking for a victim..”

JJ: “I think you can answer the question as to “why two girls, someone you can overpower easily, someone who would be susceptible to...”

CG: “8th Grader”

JJ: “Yeah going to the narrative of a coward..”

MO: “And they have to fit his fantasy”

CG: “Right, but he also depends on their friendship to keep one from running away because he knows they won’t leave each other.”

Commercial break. When they return will address “The Shack” and hit the panel up with one more question.

 

[heartgoesout]

Who care if there has been 2K in tips. What does it matter if they dont amount to anything? We are sitting at 40K in tips between both the sketches.

LE has nothing.

BradB. I think police have a lot.

 

[Pammy13]

I do & it was mentioned in the discussion too
(The cleft lip)

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Qmfr as discussion is continued in following post:



JJ, responding to MO says “would that be an isolated issue though, would this be a person, Casey, from a profile perspective who is just there, waiting for girls to come so he can do what he does or is this a person that has a pension, an inclination, and a past history of doing something like this?”

CG response: cont.

Thank You for your realtime synopsis reporting on the broadcast today Margarita.

 

[apples12]

I think the most accurate representation of the sketch will be the one on FBI's website.
Because depending on in which angle the sketch had been when photographed etc the chin change a bit to the longer or shorter side.

The chin in the FBI sketch is not that very distinctive IMHO:
Her is the FBI sketch: UNKNOWN SUSPECT

On the HLN news show today, the professional forensic sketch artist was clear: the chin is the single most distinctive feature in the new sketch, and the panelists agreed.

 

[Peppery]

Mom covered, imo.
Picture this: He is her baby, maybe her only baby. Besides the total community embarassment, she cannot stand the thought that her 'angel' would commit a crime.
He's always been 'perfect'. The perfect child. Their only child. Nope, parents are in denial and will cover for him
til their deaths. Like Frazee's mother and brother and sister.

I so don’t want this to be true. I want to believe that people do the right thing. The idea that someone might be intentionally covering for BG...how does one live with that?

Something else to consider is that if someone knows, THEY may be behaving oddly. In an extreme case, imo, if say a mom knows her son is BG she may become paranoid that LE could use her discarded McDonalds cup to compare dna or whatever. A family member might become extremely sensitive to ordinary questions. Sees a neighbor at the grocery store “hey Mary, how ya doing? How’s the husband, how’s your son?” And Mary freaks out thinking neighbor knows. Jmo

 

[spiritkiss]

How many killers Take on TWO teens, walk them what a half mile away and then murder both? The chances of one of them bolting during the walk or murder is very high. This tells me that this isnt this guys first murder. That is very risky. Very risky. Most would wait for an opportunity where one is by themselves. But two is unusual to me. Very bold, very assured of how to do it, very practiced.