Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[ocgrad]

(Ugh, now I’m remembering why I had to suddenly take a nap earlier and was getting crabby. Thanks cluciano!)

All I can guess is that they are appealing to a certain person perhaps but don’t want that known.

I’m remembering an example from the NOCO Shooter case I think, where in a PC they specifically appealed to someone who had called in with information previously and said something along the lines of “we want you to call us back.”

I thought of this too! Someone who called an anonymous tip they went back and realized it was important and they want to talk to that person, quickly.

 

[ilovechili]

If I, and many others could be similar, were witnesses to seeing a car nearby, my report would be very sketchy:
Colour probably, car not a truck, unknown model but not a sports car etc
So if a couple of similar witnesses, gave their report, LE may not have sufficient info to identify this car.
MOO.

I think it really depends on the circumstances, the car and where. Now if it was a day off of school and I saw a car there that resembled that of my teenage child or his/her friends, it would be notable especially if I thought they were at home because they were grounded or something. If I saw a car or vehicle that reminded me of someone I knew who should be in town working, or I knew to be away and out of town, it may be notable. If I saw the wrong person in a car that I thought belonged to someone else, it would be notable. If it was a business vehicle, it would be notable quite possibly, like an electric truck, city street department, etc. but in the wrong place or with the wrong person at the wrong time. If it had a flat tire, big dent, etc. If this was somewhere no one ever parked at near my town, it would be notable.

I would not probably be the best at it but I know of people who can tell you what every single person drives, who was driving that day and where they saw them, etc. In fact, I know of someone in my life that I feel is a bit overboard and anal that way actually. Now remembering this two years after the fact? More unlikely but if one found out about the murders when they still recalled the vehicle, then one would have a very good reason to recall it still two years later or have made a note of it. Maybe back when one or two people called in a tip without providing a name saying I do not know if this is important or if it is related but nearby this type of car was parked that day, I am not sure why he was driving that car (if they saw a driver), but now it is relevant and they are trying to connect with the people who called it in and any others who may have seen it?

It could also be a tactic to worry the killer about should I check the car, find the car, keep the car, ditch the car, hide the car, call the person who may have the car now? Or to the possible alibi person of the killer to cause anxiety that they know they lied for him and are coming...

As others have said, this is making my head hurt--talk about having little info and the info given instead of being helpful, as if often the case it is even more vague and confusing... Except possibly to the killer himself and those, if any, who know who he is... Which I guess is the intent, not to help us amateur sleuths...

All jmo and talking out loud.

 

[ocgrad]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

I have always wondered about a motorcycle too. But how does the car at DHS connect?

 

[bmacmillan1]

Could be that until he commits another murder, which is highly likely, then only will he get caught by slipping up, from over confidence in getting away with it this time.

 

[TTF14]

I thought of this too! Someone who called an anonymous tip they went back and realized it was important and they want to talk to that person, quickly.

Could be right! Hadn't thought of that. I somehow forgot about anonymous tips and was thinking, "well, wouldn't they have a record of who gave them what tip?" Not always though...

ETA: If this is the case they really need to stress "even if we've already talked to you....please call again...."

 

[ilovechili]

I think the only way the killer could be confident he left no DNA was if he killed them with a long range rifle sniper-style!

With that said, I'm not convinced they have DNA from the killer.

I agree when it comes to touch DNA, etc. I just meant the more definitive types of DNA as in he knows if he sneezed or had his face covered, left semen most likely, drooled, cut himself and bled, etc. that he likely has a pretty good idea whether or not he left that type of DNA.

Like you, I am not convinced they have any either. I sure hope they do.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I think the only way the killer could be confident he left no DNA was if he killed them with a long range rifle sniper-style!

With that said, I'm not convinced they have DNA from the killer.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Could be right! Hadn't thought of that. I somehow forgot about anonymous tips and was thinking, "well, wouldn't they have a record of who gave them what tip?" Not always though...

ETA: If this is the case they really need to stress "even if we've already talked to you....please call again...."

In the 2014 case in Calgary when Douglas Garland murdered Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents Alvin and Kathy Liknes there was no DNA of him at the crime scene. However cameras showed the unique old green farm truck he was driving that neighbours recognized. DNA was found from his victims at his parent's farm. Also a mapping plane showed the bodies on the ground behind a shed. Good thing they locked him up and threw away the key.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

We've heard in other posts that although not an official Trail Parking Area, the CSA building lot was used by locals as it gave great access to trails etc without fear of ticketing or penalty and was a fair size.

Given it was an unseasonally nice day and that School was out, would it be unusual if the unspecified vehicle/car/driver sought by LE was to be the only vehichle using the CSA lot during 12-5pm on the 13th?

Eta If and was

 

[SeattleStew]

In the fall of 2016, as was my usual habit (and still is), my dogs woke me up about 5am for me to let them out in the backyard to go potty. I let them out the backdoor, make a pot of coffee, grab a cup when ready, and then go sit on my back deck and watch the dogs and drink my coffee while listening to the news on the radio.

My back deck and yard look across the back alley to a government agency building (I live in the city) where I can see the back door, which is also the employee entrance. As per usual I noticed an employee arrive to work (his usual time, per my observations in the past) walk past the door, and towards the opposite end of the building, toward the parking area.

Three minutes later, I hear a gun shot.

Unfortunately, hearing gun shots is a common occurrence here. Not necessarily at 5:50am though. So, I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear sirens just a few minutes later. I went back inside after about five minutes, and started my day.

Later that day, I read that a person (a well known neighbor who often was seen out walking at all hours, nice person, no criminal history) had been shot and killed just two blocks from my house. After reading the news report, the timing made it clear that I had heard that fatal shot. The victim was discovered deceased on the sidewalk by a gentleman who had seen a man fleeing the scene with a particular description that could resemble the employee I had seen just a few minutes before I heard the gun shot. That person had been walking toward where the victim was found, and could possibly (elapsed walking time) have witnessed, known something, or even have been the killer IMO.

I called in what I had seen to the tip line. Never heard anything back from anyone. The murder is still unsolved. I often wonder if my tip ever made it to an investigator. I have called twice more over than last almost three years, and have never heard back from anyone to follow up.

My point is, maybe the guy I saw had nothing to do with the murder, but that whole morning is indelible in my mind, even though what I saw happened prior to the murder. I think because that morning later became associated with such a horrific crime, the details of that morning have stuck with me all this time. I think LE is hoping someone saw something that day that seemed ordinary, but because such a heinous crime was committed later that day, even the ordinary is indelible for them, for example a car parked at the DCS lot, and that person can provide valuable seemingly mundane details, that will lead to the killer.

Long post, sorry, but wanted to share a perspective of how one's memory can hang on to seemingly small details. I purposely did not share those here in this post because I am still hoping that what I observed may help to bring answers to this person's family and friends.

 

[FinePrint]

Just got to say I'm happy Court TV is back! But what I'm really hopeful for is the day that we are all watching BG creep on trial via Court TV!!!!

 

[mekeritrig]

DELETE

 

[flashy09]

DELETE

Too bad they showed the first sketch! Ugh.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

<rsbm>

LE said the hat should be disregarded but I can't recall what reason was given at the time. (Possibly because they could not distinguish the exact style).

So frustrating.
Libby,and Abby deserve better.
They're just little girls. I remember being there. You think your pretty grown up, ready for make-up,Highscool, boys... but really you're just naive and have much to learn.
So tragic they won't get to look back, and reminisce about being happy,silly, little girls,with hopes,and dreams.
MOO

 

[ocgrad]

In the fall of 2016, as was my usual habit (and still is), my dogs woke me up about 5am for me to let them out in the backyard to go potty. I let them out the backdoor, make a pot of coffee, grab a cup when ready, and then go sit on my back deck and watch the dogs and drink my coffee while listening to the news on the radio.

My back deck and yard look across the back alley to a government agency building (I live in the city) where I can see the back door, which is also the employee entrance. As per usual I noticed an employee arrive to work (his usual time, per my observations in the past) walk past the door, and towards the opposite end of the building, toward the parking area.

Three minutes later, I hear a gun shot.

Unfortunately, hearing gun shots is a common occurrence here. Not necessarily at 5:50am though. So, I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear sirens just a few minutes later. I went back inside after about five minutes, and started my day.

Later that day, I read that a person (a well known neighbor who often was seen out walking at all hours, nice person, no criminal history) had been shot and killed just two blocks from my house. After reading the news report, the timing made it clear that I had heard that fatal shot. The victim was discovered deceased on the sidewalk by a gentleman who had seen a man fleeing the scene with a particular description that could resemble the employee I had seen just a few minutes before I heard the gun shot. That person had been walking toward where the victim was found, and could possibly (elapsed walking time) have witnessed, known something, or even have been the killer IMO.

I called in what I had seen to the tip line. Never heard anything back from anyone. The murder is still unsolved. I often wonder if my tip ever made it to an investigator. I have called twice more over than last almost three years, and have never heard back from anyone to follow up.

My point is, maybe the guy I saw had nothing to do with the murder, but that whole morning is indelible in my mind, even though what I saw happened prior to the murder. I think because that morning later became associated with such a horrific crime, the details of that morning have stuck with me all this time. I think LE is hoping someone saw something that day that seemed ordinary, but because such a heinous crime was committed later that day, even the ordinary is indelible for them, for example a car parked at the DCS lot, and that person can provide valuable seemingly mundane details, that will lead to the killer.

Long post, sorry, but wanted to share a perspective of how one's memory can hang on to seemingly small details. I purposely did not share those here in this post because I am still hoping that what I observed may help to bring answers to this person's family and friends.

Wow! I can see how the details we normally don't pay attention to are remembered years later. I think too when we tell someone our story, your tip, telling friends, etc it helps to keep the memory fresh.
As for not receiving any return call, a couple of days ago I spoke with someone who said it took LE a little over a year to question the person they called in the tip on. It may have been that they didn't regard it as a high value tip; they do have a process for sorting and establishing priority on tips.

 

[ilovechili]

The shed is significant because people, having seen a video posted here, were asking questions about where the shed in the video was located. ...Wanting to know if it was on RL's property or in the cemetery, etc. The shed is not located in either of those places.

I posted it's location for those who had questions and, now that they know where the shed is, I'm sure nobody will continue to envision the scenario you described. If people are unfamiliar with the lay out of the entire area in and around MHB Trails, it makes it very difficult for them to envision what might have happened on the day of the murders.

I appreciated you posting it. Picturing the layout of bridge, creek, cemetery, shed, etc. is helpful. Maps and locations are in many cases imo. This case is also over two years old and it saves those who did or do know from going back to refresh their memory. There are always also newcomers.

Even though I am pretty familiar with this case, I did not follow it on here in the beginning and it was the first I saw it. So thank you

 

[Snoop Sister]

I agree and we pretty much have covered them all

Yes, we have covered an extraordinary amount of theories, scenarios and ideas regarding these heinous murders. I do wish we had a bit more info. Lots of plausible explanations and theories with the little bit of info given by LE that we have.

Awesome insights from everyone.

 

[TTF14]

In the fall of 2016, as was my usual habit (and still is), my dogs woke me up about 5am for me to let them out in the backyard to go potty. I let them out the backdoor, make a pot of coffee, grab a cup when ready, and then go sit on my back deck and watch the dogs and drink my coffee while listening to the news on the radio.

My back deck and yard look across the back alley to a government agency building (I live in the city) where I can see the back door, which is also the employee entrance. As per usual I noticed an employee arrive to work (his usual time, per my observations in the past) walk past the door, and towards the opposite end of the building, toward the parking area.

Three minutes later, I hear a gun shot.

Unfortunately, hearing gun shots is a common occurrence here. Not necessarily at 5:50am though. So, I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear sirens just a few minutes later. I went back inside after about five minutes, and started my day.

Later that day, I read that a person (a well known neighbor who often was seen out walking at all hours, nice person, no criminal history) had been shot and killed just two blocks from my house. After reading the news report, the timing made it clear that I had heard that fatal shot. The victim was discovered deceased on the sidewalk by a gentleman who had seen a man fleeing the scene with a particular description that could resemble the employee I had seen just a few minutes before I heard the gun shot. That person had been walking toward where the victim was found, and could possibly (elapsed walking time) have witnessed, known something, or even have been the killer IMO.

I called in what I had seen to the tip line. Never heard anything back from anyone. The murder is still unsolved. I often wonder if my tip ever made it to an investigator. I have called twice more over than last almost three years, and have never heard back from anyone to follow up.

My point is, maybe the guy I saw had nothing to do with the murder, but that whole morning is indelible in my mind, even though what I saw happened prior to the murder. I think because that morning later became associated with such a horrific crime, the details of that morning have stuck with me all this time. I think LE is hoping someone saw something that day that seemed ordinary, but because such a heinous crime was committed later that day, even the ordinary is indelible for them, for example a car parked at the DCS lot, and that person can provide valuable seemingly mundane details, that will lead to the killer.

Long post, sorry, but wanted to share a perspective of how one's memory can hang on to seemingly small details. I purposely did not share those here in this post because I am still hoping that what I observed may help to bring answers to this person's family and friends.

Wow, that is nuts! Did you ever contact the family with your info?

 

[neesaki]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

I wonder if it could be that the car may have been seen on several video cams in the area within a fairly short period of time, and could he have been driving a bit fast? Also could suggest he knows the area well, thus most likely fairly local. Apologies if someone’s already posted this, I can’t stay caught up.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I’m a little confused by this last part

What’s the context here?

Are they thinking someone they interviewed may have given them incriminating answers without realizing it?

Maybe it's one of those interloper types, who pops up and 'helps' police. Maybe a security guard, or someone who tried out for the police force,maybe a military guy. One of those knows it all,and let's everyone know it.
What really struck me was mentioning that the perp may have talked to somebody about what he did. Rattle that someone's cage. Get the weakest link.

MOO