IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

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janrh1290 said:
Sgt. Kim Riley said parents should keep a close eye on their children. "I think people need to be cautious and careful," Riley said. "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

Police said they do not have any suspects in custody at this time, but they do not believe there is a threat to the community.
"There is someone out there that did this crime and we’re going to track them down," Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said. “Folks should continue with business as usual but be more mindful and watch your surroundings a little closer.”

The more I read of this the more I believe there was a plan to meet someone there and that it was probably someone not from this area....probably someone online.
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Hi jan! Glad you joined us here! Could you provide links to the informative articles you are quoting please? Thank you!
 
I'm having trouble figuring out if this is a very stealthy criminal, or a very lucky one.

You have two physically healthy teenagers, hanging out at a favorite local hiking spot, with other people in the vicinity at the time. No screaming, no yelling, no running........nothing was noticed by anyone in the area ? There is a huge farming outfit and multiple residences within a rocks throw of where the bodies were found, they heard nothing either ? Sound travels a long way, especially high pitched screams, just think along the lines of a whistle. I know the trees and bushes will act as a sound barrier to some degree, but nobody else walking around in the area heard anything either ?

The bodies weren't hidden or buried, which means most likely it was a spontaneous hurried act. At this point it is impossible to establish if this was a prearranged meeting between the two girls and someone they conversed with online, or if it was a completely random encounter. LE will spend a whole lot of time in the next few days examining the girls computers and cell phone records for that very evidence.

I'm leaning towards a random encounter for one reason. The location they were found. Looking at the map, it appears to me that the girls were following along the edge of the creek bed. A totally normal place to hike. They were either tailed and followed to that location, or someone was already sitting off to the side of the trail when they walked up. Hiding in the woods, basically. Two young girls with no weapons, no boyfriends, and no adult supervision was the perfect target. I imagine a single female hiker/jogger was the intended goal.

If the girls planned on meeting someone there, they would have picked a landmark that is easy to find, such as one end of the bridge or the other. If they had met up with someone, chances are pretty good that other visitors would have passed by a group of kids at some point along the way. They would have heard them talking, laughing, cutting up, simply doing what teenagers do. It seems as if nothing was witnessed by anyone, except for the lady who claims to have seen the two girls together while crossing the bridge.

So is this a local ? Well............honestly...........how could it not be ? At least one of the girls cell phone was moving around town and pinging a tower later on that same day, so this isn't some criminal mastermind at work here, just a sadistic opportunist.

School was out.......the predator knew it..........lie and wait.......then pounce.
 
jdj125 said:
Imo parents can't just drop kids off anymore. These kids get into so much trouble with the internet, it's just not like it was growing up with no such thing or even cable.
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Agreed. Times have changed. I grew up in an era where we would've walked to the bridge, thru the woods and wouldn't have been home until dark but that was the norm and things where different then.
I have no idea what type of parents these girls had and don't want to violate any rules anyway, but it's stuff like this that makes us think twice about drop offs. I'm not familiar with that area at all so really can't comment but it's a very sad situation for sure. I hope the killer is caught swiftly.
 
Another quick thought-
I had my children young, I struggled to get done with college. I was alone in a big city, trying to parent two young boys on a very low income. I remember taking my boys to a playground and other young moms where there, we all began talking. We wished that we lived in a rural country setting where we could let our kids roam and play. We fantasized about sitting back relaxing while our kids played freely throughout the rural country area of our dreams.
Looking back at that day from where I am now, I see that kids are not guaranteed safety because they live in a small town in the country. The reality is that this could happen anywhere at any time. It made no difference that these girls had the luxury of "free play" verse a concrete jungle neighborhood. It made them no safer from the evils that sadly are a reality to each one of us.
 
Thanks God the internet didn't exists when I was a teenager...............I have a feeling my life would have turned out a whole lot differently than it did.........for all kinds of reasons, but mainly bad.
 
steelman said:
I'm having trouble figuring out if this is a very stealthy criminal, or a very lucky one.

You have two physically healthy teenagers, hanging out at a favorite local hiking spot, with other people in the vicinity at the time. No screaming, no yelling, no running........nothing was noticed by anyone in the area ? There is a huge farming outfit and multiple residences within a rocks throw of where the bodies were found, they heard nothing either ? Sound travels a long way, especially high pitched screams, just think along the lines of a whistle. I know the trees and bushes will act as a sound barrier to some degree, but nobody else walking around in the area heard anything either ?

The bodies weren't hidden or buried, which means most likely it was a spontaneous hurried act. At this point it is impossible to establish if this was a prearranged meeting between the two girls and someone they conversed with online, or if it was a completely random encounter. LE will spend a whole lot of time in the next few days examining the girls computers and cell phone records for that very evidence.

I'm leaning towards a random encounter for one reason. The location they were found. Looking at the map, it appears to me that the girls were following along the edge of the creek bed. A totally normal place to hike. They were either tailed and followed to that location, or someone was already sitting off to the side of the trail when they walked up. Hiding in the woods, basically. Two young girls with no weapons, no boyfriends, and no adult supervision was the perfect target. I imagine a single female hiker/jogger was the intended goal.

If the girls planned on meeting someone there, they would have picked a landmark that is easy to find, such as one end of the bridge or the other. If they had met up with someone, chances are pretty good that other visitors would have passed by a group of kids at some point along the way. They would have heard them talking, laughing, cutting up, simply doing what teenagers do. It seems as if nothing was witnessed by anyone, except for the lady who claims to have seen the two girls together while crossing the bridge.

So is this a local ? Well............honestly...........how could it not be ? At least one of the girls cell phone was moving around town and pinging a tower later on that same day, so this isn't some criminal mastermind at work here, just a sadistic opportunist.

School was out.......the predator knew it..........lie and wait.......then pounce.
Click to expand...

I believe this is a great theory! It sounds plausible for sure!
 
I also just get a feeling this was not a scheduled meetup. Its a real weird place to schedule a meetup! Like Steelman said- especially when it is not near a landmark.

Also, I am not going to put a whole lot of faith in the "at least know what is going on in their lives" YET as a clue that the girls were somehow inviting this monster to a tryst in the woods. It was also said that they were not in danger of anything except the weather. And that turned out not to be true. Of course, maybe the police discovered a meetup, which is why the first statement was made. I don't know. I just get the feeling this is another sicko perv who gets off on intimidating, controlling and killing women he perceives as weaker than him. But, that is only a guess! Nothing to back that up.

My hope is that since it was on a river bank that there is some shoe print evidence or something. Also, I am guessing he tossed those 2 phones in the water, which is why they both went dead around the same time.

Oh- I did wonder about screams, too. I mean they could definitely been gagged or told scream and you die, but I wonder if anyone heard anything.
 
I may have missed this or maybe it hasn't been said but has it been stated anywhere about surv cams being looked at around town? One of the girls phones was pinging around town so I wonder if they can catch anyone on camera close to those ping times.
 
mpnola said:
My heart hurts so much for these sweet girls!!! Uuuugggh. It seems to me that Liberty (at least) has a whole lot of experience outdoors with her friends and family. And seems to love photography. In a day and age when people will shame you for letting kids stay inside and watch tv and play video games, they will also shame you for letting your teenager go with a friend to a place they know well to take some pictures and enjoy the outdoors- probably while mom had to finish her work day. I cannot fault anyone, other than the person responsible (if there is one). As parents, we do the best we can. That's all I can say about that.

And if there are 2 girls, if one gets taken or hurt, it is likely the other will, too. They are of the age that they still comply when given a command by an adult. Especially one with threat. And they do no leave their friends behind.

As for the "state of their bodies"- I really hope I am wrong... I mean I REALLY hope I am wrong, but my first thought was they were unclothed. That is a real quick way to think it wasn't an accident.

I am really so sad after looking at Liberty's facebook pics last night. She just seemed so happy and kind and full of life. I am anxiously waiting to find out what happened. Even though I want them safe, that can't happen. So I guess my next horrible choice would I would prefer it to be self-inflicted, rather than a violent act. At least they would have had choice in that. I hate the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I am going to bring forward my post about parenting a teenager. The worst thing imaginable happened to these parents. And I can assume they made thoughtful parenting decisions. Most of us do. Hindsight is always clear and reasonable decisions have to be respected and appreciated. It's so easy to question someone, once there is an outcome! It is NO ONE'S fault except the murdering beast that lurked in the woods that day. No ones.
 
I pray to God that the police findstation the killer. My prayers to the family.
 
What do you mean? The bridge IS a landmark of sorts along with the trails and the creek. It seems that the area is pretty familiar to the locals and as been stated before the community wanted to restore the bridge. The town is small and the trails are probably one of the few places kids can go have fun and be alone, especially considering you can't smoke pot or drink booze at McDonald's or wherever else they'd have met. JMO. I think it's perfectly reasonable that they could have met somebody at the trails.
 
They released a photo of a man walking by the trails but I can't pull the image. Could someone post for posterity?

Edit: Beat me to the punch, thanks :)
 
This is frightening. My prayers not only to the families but to the community!
 
mpnola said:
I am going to bring forward my post about parenting a teenager. The worst thing imaginable happened to these parents. And I can assume they made thoughtful parenting decisions. Most of us do. Hindsight is always clear and reasonable decisions have to be respected and appreciated. It's so easy to question someone, once there is an outcome! It is NO ONE'S fault except the murdering beast that lurked in the woods that day. No ones.
Click to expand...

My fear is that the girls had been lectured about using the internet too much, so they said ' OK< can we go hiking then? ' No , sorry girls- not alone, ..." BUT MOM, you just said we had to get off our phones and go outside and do something.
 
What's on his pants under his jacket? Is that just a shadow? It looks sort of rust-colored or red.
 
Rachel1 said:
Agreed. Times have changed. I grew up in an era where we would've walked to the bridge, thru the woods and wouldn't have been home until dark but that was the norm and things where different then.
I have no idea what type of parents these girls had and don't want to violate any rules anyway, but it's stuff like this that makes us think twice about drop offs. I'm not familiar with that area at all so really can't comment but it's a very sad situation for sure. I hope the killer is caught swiftly.
Click to expand...

The thing is you SHOULD be able to drop off your responsible child to play on a park without fear. The sad thing is you can't. It's ridiculous and makes me think as a society we are backsliding instead of progressing. There are these stories everyday it seems.
 
steelman said:
I'm having trouble figuring out if this is a very stealthy criminal, or a very lucky one.

You have two physically healthy teenagers, hanging out at a favorite local hiking spot, with other people in the vicinity at the time. No screaming, no yelling, no running........nothing was noticed by anyone in the area ? There is a huge farming outfit and multiple residences within a rocks throw of where the bodies were found, they heard nothing either ? Sound travels a long way, especially high pitched screams, just think along the lines of a whistle. I know the trees and bushes will act as a sound barrier to some degree, but nobody else walking around in the area heard anything either ?

The bodies weren't hidden or buried, which means most likely it was a spontaneous hurried act. At this point it is impossible to establish if this was a prearranged meeting between the two girls and someone they conversed with online, or if it was a completely random encounter. LE will spend a whole lot of time in the next few days examining the girls computers and cell phone records for that very evidence.

I'm leaning towards a random encounter for one reason. The location they were found. Looking at the map, it appears to me that the girls were following along the edge of the creek bed. A totally normal place to hike. They were either tailed and followed to that location, or someone was already sitting off to the side of the trail when they walked up. Hiding in the woods, basically. Two young girls with no weapons, no boyfriends, and no adult supervision was the perfect target. I imagine a single female hiker/jogger was the intended goal.

If the girls planned on meeting someone there, they would have picked a landmark that is easy to find, such as one end of the bridge or the other. If they had met up with someone, chances are pretty good that other visitors would have passed by a group of kids at some point along the way. They would have heard them talking, laughing, cutting up, simply doing what teenagers do. It seems as if nothing was witnessed by anyone, except for the lady who claims to have seen the two girls together while crossing the bridge.

So is this a local ? Well............honestly...........how could it not be ? At least one of the girls cell phone was moving around town and pinging a tower later on that same day, so this isn't some criminal mastermind at work here, just a sadistic opportunist.

School was out.......the predator knew it..........lie and wait.......then pounce.
Click to expand...
SABBM

Was there a link for that info ? Maybe someone posted it and I missed it... sorry if that's the case.

Both victims' phones and social media 'footprints' will maybe crack this.
Hard to believe anyone could set up an encounter without verifying it first, either over the phone or other internet accounts.
If that's what happened.

Or just a random opportunity ?
Or the girls happened upon something they shouldn't have seen ?

Regardless.. I hope they catch this perp and give him/her/them the DP.
:moo:
 
Soooo I'm going back to the last picture. Could it really be a person???


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I wonder who took that picture.


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