IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #2

[ZhaZhaHa]

You ain't kidding...

BUT, you could put either of those police officers in jeans and a hat and a hoodie and they'd also look like the POI. Like I said, definitely a midwest older man look.

 

[tokyorose]

We don't know, because LE has refused to answer questions about their phones. I think he threw them into the creek. Also keep in mind that iPhones can also be pinged (find my phone feature) even when turned off, and it wouldn't be hard for the divers to find a pinging phone. This of course is all speculation on my part.

 

[abeaman02]

Hi All,

My first post. This is such a tragic case and so sad. I have a couple ideas. I have three daughters and this is my worst nightmare. I think these girls went to this spot to meet someone. The odds that in this small town a sexual predator was waiting and equipped to attack and murder two girls who happen to be there at that time on a weekday no less, just seem too small. He ( assuming a male) first of all would have had to know school was out that day...I think he met them on the bridge and the photo came from Liberty's phone ( she seemed to be the one snapping the pics) I think he had a gun and he knew he had little time to get them to a secluded spot. The timeline is very tight. Picture taken at 2:07 with pickup scheduled for 3:00-3:30. By 4 pm relative charged with picking them up would be on the trails looking and calling for them, and calling their cell phones. Holding someone at gunpoint is a very effective way to keep them quiet. It is my unfortunate hunch that they were alive well into the night. This type of predator wouldn't go to all these lengths to kill two victims in 15-30 minutes.

Very good post. Well thought out. I do agree that they were either being followed or planning to meet someone

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[Inthedetails]

How do we know he didn't? Sorry if I missed this.

Good point! I was thinking LE had the phone to know about Snapchat, but of course that is not necessary. DUH. Thanks for catching that before it went further.

jmo

 

[yupikgirl]

<snipped>

HA- clever name.

Oops no idea where the quote is [emoji53]



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Justice for Susan Winters.

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[Heyits_tay04]

Oh, I see! My iPad isn't set up to receive my texts, just my phone. But when it's off it sends as the SMS text green bubble rather than blue iMessage. I've been an iPhone user for years though so I don't know if other cell companies also use the "delivered" word in text or if they are different colors based off delivery method. My assumption based off his words are that she had an iPhone and it was still on because the messages said delivered and not sent to SMS text green land.

This got me thinking! Snapchat will say if a message has been delivered and opened as well. He could've meant that, too, just a thought? Idk. I know my SIL's Samsung doesn't have delivered receipts


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Justice for Susan Winters.

 

[Heyits_tay04]

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Oops lol Will & Grace..old '90s-2004 tv show!


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Justice for Susan Winters.

 

[rpgman]

just thinking out loud here....is it possible the perp(s) made Libby take that snapchat pic and upload it? Maybe, they were familiar with the perp(s) or maybe the perp(s) kinda forced them to take that pic.....possible....just thinking off the top of my head.

 

[njcanuck]

just thinking out loud here....is it possible the perp(s) made Libby take that snapchat pic and upload it? Maybe, they were familiar with the perp(s) or maybe the perp(s) kinda forced them to take that pic.....possible....just thinking off the top of my head.

What is your thought as to why they may have been forced to upload a photo to snapchat? What purpose could that have served their killer?

 

[yupikgirl]

Oh, I see! My iPad isn't set up to receive my texts, just my phone. But when it's off it sends as the SMS text green bubble rather than blue iMessage. I've been an iPhone user for years though so I don't know if other cell companies also use the "delivered" word in text or if they are different colors based off delivery method. My assumption based off his words are that she had an iPhone and it was still on because the messages said delivered and not sent to SMS text green land.

Yea her having an iPhone (I assume) will make it easier in some ways and complicated in others because it's up to individual use. It's my understanding that it won't be sent as a green text unless you have your settings set up that way. I don't have mine set to send as a SMS if not delivered because then I can't see the delivered or read receipt - HA I'm annoying like that and I like to know when my kids/hubby read my text.


Either way it appears as if her phone was on when the texts were sent- they said delivered on grandpas end so the phone was on. I'm wondering if whomever did this didn't think about the phones until later. So they went delivered....ugh. I know he's quoted somewhere saying the phone was now off- just wondering when that was.


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[kbsweet911]

From looking at totally not forensic reference points, I believe he was walking southeast on the bridge. From the side the girls were found, to the side where there is a small trail/road that feeds in to roads along the crops south of the creek. If he was walking in that direction it could/would have been after they died.

******Not a professional, only 70% sure that I'm right

I thought the same thing..based on shadow as well. And the pic of Abby on the bridge shows her facing the same direction. They would both be headed away from the drop off/pick up spot. This contradicts my earlier thought that if the POI was also the perp, that perhaps he was filmed leaving the area. It would still appear as if the girls had to back track at some point. If they were halfway across the bridge heading south for the SC pic, but were found on the north side of the river. Would it be crazy to wonder if the perp was in contact and told them he was on his way..and instruct them to just head down under the bridge & walk a bit along the river so no one will see them & he'll meet them there? He could have parked on the county road to the south of the bridge, met up w them after crossing the bridge, and still have been filmed leaving back to the south I suppose. It'd be very helpful to know the time of the photo of the POI..I guess that goes without saying.


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[Inthedetails]

just thinking out loud here....is it possible the perp(s) made Libby take that snapchat pic and upload it? Maybe, they were familiar with the perp(s) or maybe the perp(s) kinda forced them to take that pic.....possible....just thinking off the top of my head.

I don't think so, but he might have used their photo taking as an opportunity to talk to them. Perhaps offer to show them a great place to take pictures, for example.

jmo

 

[Elainera]

It's crossed my mind that sometimes the culprit is someone close to the family. It would be disturbing to think he was possibly in the loop the whole time via text or SM and was aware that there was an increasing search effort..or maybe even helped with it.

It would seem the girls didn't have access to their phones as early as 3-330 when surely they were being called and texted to see why they weren't at the pick up spot. And it would appear the girls were NOT reading texts and just choosing to ignore them..bc Libby's grandfather stated the messages had been delivered but not read. I'd say things had already gone seriously South even before their designated pick up time.


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You're right. I forgot about the messages not being read. So by 3.30 we can assume they were under his power. Some time between just after 2 and 3.30 he took them. imo

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Yea her having an iPhone (I assume) will make it easier in some ways and complicated in others because it's up to individual use. It's my understanding that it won't be sent as a green text unless you have your settings set up that way. I don't have mine set to send as a SMS if not delivered because then I can't see the delivered or read receipt - HA I'm annoying like that and I like to know when my kids/hubby read my text.


Either way it appears as if her phone was on when the texts were sent- they said delivered on grandpas end so the phone was on. I'm wondering if whomever did this didn't think about the phones until later. So they went delivered....ugh. I know he's quoted somewhere saying the phone was now off- just wondering when that was.


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I would think maybe read receipts were turned on if her parents helped set up her phone. I would do it. I don't have them on my messages with hubby, but when my oldest is old enough for a phone we will no doubt use every single little thing that allows me to "see" her.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

One of the officers said "We will catch THEM !". I find the thought that 2 men did that weird EXCEPT THAT I am now mystified since I've seen the owner of the land where the girls were found - - he pointed to all those thin trees/shrubs/whatever you call that stuff - and he said it's solidly dense for the 3/4 mile from where the girls were dumped to the closest end of the high bridge ! I really am puzzled by this case.

 

[tokyorose]

The picture of Abigail on the bridge? Yes that's a good thought. Would be meant to show all was well. I also think that Libby got the picture of him... guessing he wouldn't like that one.

 

[Elainera]

I believe that is just a long driveway to a single home.



Snipped- I didn't notice anything that looked like a fence in any of the pictures I saw. I did notice an old fence post in the interview with the landowner in that open pasture area, so I'd assume he doesn't have livestock. No real reason to maintain a fence if you don't have livestock. Too much work, especially in the woods where trees/limbs fall. Of course, that's just IMO.

---------------------------
If they followed footprints, they should be able to tell if there were 2 or 3 people walking together. Should rule out whether the girls were walking in that area voluntarily or if they were walked/followed back there. I'm wondering if footwear was taken in the search warrant?

Good thinking. Quite possible.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

I thought those 2 pics' of the man were taken by 'the other girl' because the quality of the pic' is inferior to the pic' of the girl on the bridge. I also thought the girl took those pics' cuz' she was creeped out by that man following them and was going to tell her older sis' or whoever it was who picked them up.

 

[yupikgirl]

I would think maybe read receipts were turned on if her parents helped set up her phone. I would do it. I don't have them on my messages with hubby, but when my oldest is old enough for a phone we will no doubt use every single little thing that allows me to "see" her.

Yes I think they were- just by what he says. I was just trying to figure out when the phone went off. I know he's quoted somewhere saying it. We know they were delivered but not read- but I can't find where he says the phone is off- or what time that happened.


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[Bently]

I agree....but it wouldn't be hard to hide them so they weren't detected so soon and it doesn't look that hard to put them in the river.

I just have this feeling he meant for them to be found. Of course, that's just pure speculation at this point.

jmo

I agree it does not make sense they were 50 feet from river, yer not put in the river to at least get rid of DNA. that makes me think that somehow perp's plan to perhaps come back later and put them in the river when there were people around did not work out. perhaps the perp had family that he had to be accountable for and could not get back to the bodies to put them in the water later?