IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #3

[Bently]

Today, it was planned months ago to meet today in real life. .

... I was to meet with Foxfire in RL as I am at a wedding that has taken over the entire Red Top Mountain.

( those who know Glenn.

I am over marina and point ..)

Foxfire passed..

I am so emotional...

Abigail and Liberty.. I am praying to Foxfire ..

For those who know Foxfire.. he is overlooking .. He is overlooking..

 

[katydid23]

This is the first anyone has mentioned this. What is your source?

One clue is that thy are only asking males for the DNA....

 

[Hope32]

What is this was a 2 man show? One of the men and or sick woman was the lure? Could have been younger, more attractive. Girls might have gone with them willfully. Then this older man came too?

 

[NewMama]

Security cameras at a small cemetery seems so weird to me. Jmo. I hang out in little cemeteries like that and I've never seen cameras. Doesn't mean they're not there, but, I don't see why there would be. We don't seem to have a problem with vandalism in graveyards and neither would Delphi IMO. They're supposed to be quiet places to mourn. Maybe I reject the idea because it's an uncomfortable one.

I imagine if there had been significant trouble in the past the owner may decide to go that route. I'm trying to remember if we even lock the gate around ours. It is fenced - chain-link w/ a similar swing gate as seen in the coverage here. There have been a handful of vandal issues in 30+ years.

 

[steelman]

We have a family cemetery on our land in TX - it looks approx. 1/2 the size of this cemetery. No cameras. Out in the country in the middle of farmland.

I was born and raised in Texas................my family has burial plots in Lubbock, Graham, Breckenridge , Wichita Falls, Big Spring, and Abilene. Not a single one of them has cameras. Are we to the point in this country where we need surveillance cameras at the local cemetery ?!!??


Tell me it ain't so..............................................

 

[Whiteshark]

Familial DNA was not used in the Karina Vetrano case. Its not legal in New York. They finally caught the guy following up on all Stop and Frisks in the area. They interviewed the guy and asked for a DNA swab and he agreed. It was brilliant police work that finally got him.

Yes they did get a court order for the wider spread DNA they collected, When they arrested that creep, they would have had no right to get his DNA, but the court order allowed it....let me find a link..

 

[Whiteshark]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/nyregion/familial-dna-searching-karina-vetrano.html?_r=0


here we go

 

[katydid23]

Also you got to understand if they found DNA and got no hits in the system that means this isn't a repeat offender.

OR he just hasn't been caught yet.

 

[NewMama]

Today, it was planned months ago to meet today in real life. .

... I was to meet with Foxfire in RL as I am at a wedding that has taken over the entire Red Top Mountain.

( those who know Glenn.

I am over marina and point ..)

Foxfire passed..

I am so emotional...

Abigail and Liberty.. I am praying to Foxfire ..

For those who know Foxfire.. he is overlooking .. He is overlooking..

Show us a sign, Foxfire!

I have so much respect for Foxfire's participation here. He's got to be helping in some capacity.

 

[eucalyptuz]

If you save a location to "your maps" you can still access the 'Google terrain' view (which used to be a clickable button) and gives topographic shading...wondering if the girls may have walked the flats to the south of deer creek, crossed at the islands and attempted to walk north to the road where they were intercepted:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/5...da0573!8m2!3d40.5917914!4d-86.6347767!5m1!1e4

ETA: Apologies if this post repeats other efforts but at 500 posts in a few hours...it is really hard to stay on top of the flow...

 

[roseofsharon]

I can't imagine a property owner not allowing LE and searchers on his land to search for anyone missing, especially two young girls.

 

[steelman]

Sorry if I missed this already, but how do you know there is barbed wire around the private property where they were found? Having lived in some rural places in my life, sometimes there isn't any fencing at all where public land ends and private land begins.I probably missed reading that somewhere. I had already guessed that was the reason the search was called off. Makes me think the perp knew that he'd be difficult to detect once off the public trails.

In one of the news videos right after this happened, they showed a barbed wire fence and did a big story about the murders..................but not so much about the fence itself. The fact that the girls were both killed and found on private property, only came around after the people in the news media decided to stop focusing on the murders themselves, and start start focusing on the actual details of the murders.

 

[JnRyan]

I can see a gun being involved. Especially a .22. I walked all over relatives' properties and neighbors that gave me permission when I visiting in the summers in the mid-west. I was either shooting a shotgun or a .22 rifle and no one paid any attention. Looking at the Indiana hunting seasons, I see where fox, coyote and rabbit hunting seasons were still on.

So if the killer used a small caliber gun to control the girls and then used it as the murder weapon would anyone be concerned?

 

[madduck74]

I personally dont think they were contacted beforehand to meet someone. But if they were, maybe they were offered a boat ride. That would make traversing the terrain to the crime scene much easier. And the footprints that were found, would be much easier to find on a sandy bank.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[carbuff]

If you save a location to "your maps" you can still access the 'Google terrain' view (which used to be a clickable button) and gives topographic shading...wondering if the girls may have walked the flats to the south of deer creek, crossed at the islands and attempted to walk north to the road where they were intercepted:
View attachment 110361
https://www.google.com/maps/place/5...da0573!8m2!3d40.5917914!4d-86.6347767!5m1!1e4

ETA: Apologies if this post repeats other efforts but at 500 posts in a few hours...it is really hard to stay on top of the flow...

I wonder if they descended to creek level near the bridge and walked along the river the whole way? Streams like that often have paths worn by fishermen that make fairly easy walking, and some of us like to walk beside the water.

But the video of Deer Creek somebody posted earlier makes it look like there's not much bank, so maybe that's not even possible. It also appears to be deeper than I initially thought.

 

[atothem]

Some things from looking at this google earth shot-

The terrain is rough. it is a steep drop to the creek in a number of areas.

If he walked them there from the bridge. It had to be with some method of controlling them. The other thing that the creek area is from the line of sight from the bridge until you get to the second area. This is part of why I felt the perp may have taken them to 2nd area because I thought he may have walked them to a spot until he felt they were no longer visible from the bridge. The thing about this is how would he know how far he could go without coming to the back of another property and into view if he weren't at least vaguely familiar with the area.

I also looked at the cemetery and there does appear to be a an area in the SW corner of it that a car could park and be reasonably hidden. This could support the idea that they were taken from somewhere between the drop off area and bridge and driven to the cemetery.

Again, I'm not sure where they were found as I've seen two different spots referenced.

I'm thoroughly enjoying your posts (posts by many others as well). [emoji1360]

 

[Tulessa]

I was born and raised in Texas................my family has burial plots in Lubbock, Graham, Breckenridge , Wichita Falls, Big Spring, and Abilene. Not a single one of them has cameras. Are we to the point in this country where we need surveillance cameras at the local cemetery ?!!??


Tell me it ain't so..............................................

We have them at ours. The local drug dealers had taken over.

 

[perfectingpink]

No, that's not how it happened.

Detective work caught the NYC jogger's killer.

The father of the victim is advocating for New York to allow familial DNA, but as of now, NY does not do it.

Does Indiana use familial DNA? I am catching up after making "Save the Dates" for my daughter's wedding and I am behind so forgive me if I find this has been asked and answered.

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes they did get a court order for the wider spread DNA they collected, When they arrested that creep, they would have had no right to get his DNA, but the court order allowed it....let me find a link..

I don't think so. They nabbed the guy through detective work and he agreed to give DNA.

There was no familial DNA used because it's not allowed in New York. They might have asked other people to submit DNA, but they didn't get a court order for the actual perp. They asked for him to submit his DNA when they questioned him, and he complied.

 

[Inthedetails]

I can see a gun being involved. Especially a .22. I walked all over relatives' properties and neighbors that gave me permission when I visiting in the summers in the mid-west. I was either shooting a shotgun or a .22 rifle and no one paid any attention. Looking at the Indiana hunting seasons, I see where fox, coyote and rabbit hunting seasons were still on.

So if the killer used a small caliber gun to control the girls and then used it as the murder weapon would anyone be concerned?

I don't think it was a gun just because I think this was sexually motivated and I think part of the thrill for many of these killers is to strangle.

That is not based on any evidence or reports, just a hunch.

jmopinion at the moment