IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[IllinoisMissing]

Ok so going on the theory there is approx 23 minutes between the SC photo of Abby taken by Libby, and the suspect entering the frame on the bridge. Where could HE have come from in those 23 minutes? Roughly. Is there a specific entrance to the trail that is about a 15-20 minute walk away? (just thinking out loud)

He came from the trail I think. No one has posted a map that shows where the trail entrance from 300W and the actual trail from town intersect and I'm not talented enough.

As you come down the trail from 300W, you get to a fork. Left goes to the bridge, right goes on the trail to town.

Let me see if my daughter got a pic.

Edit: She didn't but try this. From the P parking there is a short trail and then you run into the fork.

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[Eileen730]

Your assessment is dead on. If he said "down the hill to see a puppy etc" they WOULD have released more. IMO.

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Thing is these kids were not 7 or 8 yrs old. And I. Very sure smart enough to know stranger danger. Kids are older then their years these days and I can't see them going to look for any puppy. Jmo

 

[Katka]

I'm finally caught up - had to skip a few pages or I was never going to make it.

Someone said in a previous thread that the location of the bodies didn't lend itself to sexual assault - I wouldn't have thought it would lend itself to double murder either but here we are.

 

[jjhoward33]

http://atfiles.org/files/pdf/Using-Railroad-Property-Community-Trails.pdf

I realize this doc is from Kansas. It's a conservancy type document called "Rails to Trails." In it there is talk about rail right of way, some past cases where land owners had to fight to get land back once the railroad stopped using, etc. I wonder if motive here? Maybe the killer wasn't a perv and was so mad about trespassing he killed them? Like a trespassing rage type of crime vs. what we are all thinking.

My other thought would be it is what we are thinking and to brainstorm the document to see if IN or IA has similar programs and if someone worked both conservancy groups. Just a thought. maybe a lead.

I had a similar thought early on... it sounds extreme but who knows...

It appears as though these girls spent a lot of time on the trails, in the area, on the back roads (imo)... was there some grumpy dude who lives nearby that was annoyed by this? Sick of teenagers and kids always hanging around all the time? Someone protective of what they think is "their land"?

Seems far fetched but people have snapped for much less serious reasons before. And clearly this person isn't thinking clearly so anything is possible. IMO!


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[cluciano63]

Would they have DNA on someone who has a prior arrest? Not sure how it works...


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It depends on the crime and where it occured, as well as how up to date their system is as far as entering profiles into databases. Theoretically, convicted sex offenders should be in DNA databases. But not all states take DNA simply for charges, just convictions, and if a suspect is found guilty or pleads to a lesser charge, they may not take it at all. Jmo

 

[jjhoward33]

If the motive was drug related, there may not be evidence of sexual assault. This is even more interesting given the short timeline of the crime.

Those of you insinuating the sleuthing you've done regarding this, I assume you've turned your findings in to LE?


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[Eileen730]

anybody asking why Feb 13 is a off day?http://hs.delphi.k12.in.us/UserFile...le/2016 - 2017 School Calendar 07_11_2016.pdf school website clearly says Feb 10-13 is winter break. It is public information.

Unused snow day kids had off
Here in Florida we have hurricane days
If we do t need them the kids get to have days off

 

[liltexans]

Hypothetically speaking, can anyone here think of anytime children have been savagely murdered in retaliation for something an adult in their life has done? I just don't think it happens, but maybe I'm naive.

Not in the United States. I live in an area that is filled with the Mexican Mafia and they don't even go after people's kids on this side of the border. They do make obvious statements with their killings, though, such as lighting bodies on fire in the middle of cornfields. But the victims are adults.

 

[thekarmabus]

I have a hard time believing they don't have the DNA results back if they have any. I know DNA takes time, but it's been almost two weeks.

They more than likely have prelim results..this would only show yes it is blood, yes this is semen etc. two weeks would be an An extremely quick turn around for full results. I would guess quick turn around would be 3-4 weeks


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[pandorasbox]

Still have some adrenaline running from speaking to 2 detectives following up on tips this morning. <modsnip>

Edit: just want to clarify I have not submitted any tips, they were someone else's tips.

 

[Tawny]

MOO- Theorizing--What if there was a second perp that dropped BG off at the (North?) end of the bridge? They either saw or knew that the girls were there alone.. BG walks to the South end freakin them out, so they head back to the N end. This is where the abduction takes place, possibly into a vehicle. They drive to the cemetery for seclusion and force them into the woods. I'm not sure how we wouldn't have more phone recording in this situation, though.

Why would they drive to the cemetery only to then walk into the woods? That's a long route to go to end up within walking distance of the original abduction spot. JMO

 

[Yellow Rose]

Timeout....just got a tweet that the WHO IS BABY SARAH? 42 year old cold case has been solved

 

[JJ007]

I had a similar thought early on... it sounds extreme but who knows...

It appears as though these girls spent a lot of time on the trails, in the area, on the back roads (imo)... was there some grumpy dude who lives nearby that was annoyed by this? Sick of teenagers and kids always hanging around all the time? Someone protective of what they think is "their land"?

Seems far fetched but people have snapped for much less serious reasons before. And clearly this person isn't thinking clearly so anything is possible. IMO!


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My thoughts come from personal experience. I'm an avid fisherman and stick to DNR type properties - on foot. Several times I've ventured onto peoples property and been run off with guns, etc. in Indiana. When me and my buddies were the girls age we would explore in some woods by our house. No one was ever out there. One day a guy shows up with a shotgun and loaded rock salt loads and starts plugging away at us. This was just outside I-465, not even legal to fire a weapon. He hit one of our friends in the arm and we were scared and never turned him in. Dug the salt rock out. Later when we were about 15-16 we went back for mushrooms (Morells) and found 15-16 marijuana plants that were just planted. So, land owners can in some cases get crazy, especially if fighting some kind of court case about the land to begin with.

 

[liltexans]

What time were the girls dropped off? The time frame is very tight in this case, JMO

The girls were reportedly dropped off between 1:00 and 1:30 pm. The time frame is very tight.

 

[DavidC]

What if there was no sexual assault?
Why would he kill them?

A comment they made?

DNA will only be useful if they have his DNA on file somewhere.

I don't think we can rationalize the mindset of a child killer. Only another child killer can do that.

I think we can agree that anyone who murders children is a very, very disturbed person.

Someone who doesn't think like you and I.

This is the entire reasoning behind the creation of the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

The FBI realized that to understand the mindset of a killer you have to go talk to killers. So they did. They went to prisons across America and interviewed serial killers, child murderers, etc.....

 

[Lionheart1980]

Im trying to focus on the escape route. Because I believe BG went there with intent. The fact that he hasnt been caught seems to suggest he had a very good plan.

Looking at google maps/google earth, if I had planned this all out, and I needed an escape route, I would follow the creek east to the Iron Wilson Bridge. Its not terribly far. Its secluded. I feel like this spot has the smallest chance of being spotted. Has anyone looked at that area for clues? If anyone makes the trip check it out. If I didnt want to be seen, i would feel way more comfortable walking the creek than taking any other route out.

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[luckyme]

They more than likely have prelim results..this would only show yes it is blood, yes this is semen etc. two weeks would be an An extremely quick turn around for full results. I would guess quick turn around would be 3-4 weeks


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https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm


On this chart Indiana says 2 weeks. Rushed because of homicide. moo

 

[KyMom]

I don't really like to throw out theories on what actually may have happened to the girls, but this one ran through my mind a few times, I'm sure it's probably an unlikely theory..still thought I'd post it - what if the girls ticked the suspect(s) off somehow & out of anger one of the girls was pushed off the bridge, then he/they headed for the other girl. I would say Abby, since it was Libby's phone being used to capture things & that's why she started recording the guy we see. Like I said, I doubt it's likely what happened, just had to get it out of my head.

Btw, what caused me to come up with this was a comment someone posted on here. I've went back pages & pages to find the post, I can't remember the users name or what their entire post said, but there was a part where they said 2 different causes of death...it was something like: 2 victims 2 different causes of death. I recall seeing another user ask them where they came up with that, but I don't recall seeing it being answered.

JMO

 

[Nellsbells]

[/B]Last line BBM -

Do you folks who believe that really think LE, FBI etc are that inept at blurring something or someone out of a photo as to leave a portion showing?

I do, sorta. They were in a hurry to get a pic out of the suspect and we have no idea how much video footage they had to go through in order find something they could post. I also think they messed up big time when they didn't clear the area and keep everyone out until they'd gone through the entire park with a fine toothed comb. LE are human and make mistakes, and by their demeanor during the pressies - they were shaken up badly.

I'd bet good money that that is the lower left side of Abby's jacket in the uncropped frame. JMO MOO

 

[pugsly]

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but there are now several photo spheres posted on Google Maps that show along the trail and on the bridge. All taken in the last few days.