IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[tomvansac]

a violent offendor arrested today in Bloomington, IN for harassing a young mother and child in a park:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...loomington-for-impersonating-a-police-officer

 

[Bracondad]

My first post so go easy on me��. I don't see the resemblance to a scream mask but what I have noticed is what appears to be the outline of a handgun in BG's right jacket pocket. This may have already been discussed but if you're not aware I encourage you to take a close look and let us know if you see it.

 

[Spin321]

Several of us re-posted that article (because it was so amazing!), but I believe the first to bring it to this forum was Wondergirl. It is an emotional story. Lots of parallels to this case. Heartbreaking.

In addition to re-posting that article, I re-posted a podcast by Jerri Williams, an ex FBI agent turned crime writer. It's an interview Eddie Freyer, the head FBI agent in charge of Polly Klaas abduction murder. (I'm sorry, but I don't recall who posted the reference to the podcasts.)

Polly Klaas age 12 was abducted from her California home on Oct. 1, 1993. Her assailant was not apprehended until 6 months later after an exhaustive, highly publicized investigation. He led authorities to her body after the arrest. Huge media coverage. Large reward. Massive amount of tips called in. (Sound familiar?) He was convicted of the crime and is still on death row in California, going through appeals.

http://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-h783z-2235b85
http://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-bzxrx-2256958

This is a 2-part report, each podcast runs about 1.25 hrs. Very interesting. Very detailed info about the investigation. I think the emotions of the LEO's as described by FBI agent Freyer during this investigation probably are very similar to what LE is experiencing here now. I highly recommend giving this a listen.

Thank you! The podcast will be next on my list!


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[smh]

I found this site because of the Rebecca Zahau case but joined because of Jessica Ridgeway (local to me). My 10yo dd at the time looked an awful lot like Jessica and before her body was found, police were looking everywhere for her...we had people eyeing my dd everywhere we went because she looked so much like sweet little Jessica. Anyways, I have followed this case from the first night. When the girls were presumed missing, I prayed for their safe return. When their bodies were found, my heart just sank. I cannot imagine what their families are going through. I think these girls did nothing wrong. That is what shakes me to my core. I have two dd's and two ds's and all kids want to have time off on their own. This was good, clean fun...imo...And I am just so saddened that *this* is the world we live in. My dd who looked like Jessica Rideway a few years ago could now be Abby in the photo we have of her on the bridge. Just so scary.

I do not know how to sleuth like you all do, which is why I never post, but you all amaze me. I am thankful that so many of you care and are willing to spend so much time trying to help. Bless you all. I continue to pray this case will be solved and this monster brought to justice.

 

[smh]

My first post so go easy on me��. I don't see the resemblance to a scream mask but what I have noticed is what appears to be the outline of a handgun in BG's right jacket pocket. This may have already been discussed but if you're not aware I encourage you to take a close look and let us know if you see it.

I am pretty sure this was discussed in a previous thread and I agree, it seems to be a handgun in the right coat pocket.

 

[smh]

As a mom of a 14yo dd, I don't find Abby's attire strange at all. My dd, who is 14yo (also a 16yo dd), would totally dress this way to go out with a friend for the day...even hiking...and especially if she thought pics might be taken and posted on Instagram or snapchat. Very normal looking dress to me.

 

[Steleheart]

Well bob, She's not in a tshirt and sweats, just saying. And don't get me wrong I'm not critical of how she's dressed. What got me thinking is that she looks so different from the other photos circulating. Since LE is determined to save any critical updates until they absolutely need public assistance, I gotta work backwards. Starting with : Why were the girls there ? Why was BG there? Do you believe in coincidences ? Fine if you do, I just am not a believer that this vulnerable twosome was out there at the very far end of the trail to go hike on a day off. Again, which teens do you ever see do that at that age? Usually if you see teens out in the country they are partying and that's the 15-20 age group.


Other ?'s may include Why did he take them to a perfect spot to abduct and possibly transport them ? This was meticulously planned out IMO
Thanks for all the thoughtful posts here

BBM
Contrary to your speculation, here is what is actually said by those who knew the girls;

<snip>
"Liberty and Abigail were familiar with the community trails, which were popular with locals.

&#8220;She went hiking often,&#8221; Mike Patty, Liberty&#8217;s grandfather, previously told PEOPLE of his granddaughter, who he raised alongside his wife, Becky."

<snip>
"When they weren&#8217;t in class together at the local middle school, Abigail and Liberty were playing sports or hiking Delphi&#8217;s community trails, Patty said."

http://people.com/crime/abigail-williams-liberty-german-slain-indiana-teens-5-things/

 

[JJ007]

My first post so go easy on me&#65533;&#65533;. I don't see the resemblance to a scream mask but what I have noticed is what appears to be the outline of a handgun in BG's right jacket pocket. This may have already been discussed but if you're not aware I encourage you to take a close look and let us know if you see it.

Welcome. Yeah, I originally thought there was definitely something odd in that jacket pocket. I think most believe there is something either in the pocket or underneath a layer. Some kind of weapon. On the Scream Mask I'm just referring to the jaw line of the mask. They're rubber and I thought it looks like one tucked in and smashed, or possibly a rope or something 3-D.

 

[deugirtni]

If they don't have DNA from the perpetrator, then why would LE mention DNA because everyone else's DNA means absolutely nothing.

So... if they mentioned they are waiting for DNA result, then they have the perp's DNA. And even if they don't have a match in their data base, suspects where it was taken and/or relatives... they can still take that DNA and tell the race and even eye color of the perpetrator.

To me, it could mean a lot of things. For example, IF the girls were not sexually assaulted, and therefore no DNA was left inside or on their bodies by the perp, or IF the girls were sexually assaulted, but there was no genetic material left inside or on their bodies, then it may not be obvious who owns any of the DNA that LE may have found just around. What if LE had found an 'item' of some kind, which they assume is related to the crime, and DNA can be found on that item. Or if they found a bunch of little clues/items, perhaps in various places, like say cigarette butts, or a beer can, etc... and DNA could be found on those items.. but nothing is specifically ON the girls' bodies... it could be meaningless now... or it could simply not be known at this point in time as to whether that DNA is meaningful... not until they have a perp in custody perhaps, at which time the DNA they had collected from whichever sources, are compared with this perp who is perhaps arrested for reasons other than DNA, ie, a wife comes forward with incriminating evidence. LE may get their testing back, and they may have or not have DNA, but they may not be able to even say for sure whether it's related, UNTIL something breaks in the case.... and then when it does, it's possible that a whole pile of stuff will come together, including some of the DNA results they found around.

I can't help thinking that the girls were not raped, or at least perhaps no genetic material left inside of them.. or police would know for sure that the owner of the DNA was also the perp. For them to keep waffling about whether or not they have DNA makes it seem to me as if they do have it, but they're not yet sure if it will end up being significant in the case. If they make it out NOW as if it is significant, and in the end, the perp wasn't the one who left those cig butts or beer cans, (if that is the case), then the perp will say, but it wasn't my DNA found on those at the time, that were in the news..... LE is always cognizant of their case in a future trial, and I would imagine they don't want to state too much as being fact, to protect their future prosecution. Just my thoughts.

 

[deugirtni]

I keep seeing 'PO'.... but I have no idea what that means. I have heard 'POI' as person of interest.. but PO has me stumped. Can someone please enlighten me? Thank you!!

 

[mandy.maree]

I followed this story avidly early on. I'm COMPLETELY done with it until LE releases more video or audio.

I can't understand at ALL why they are holding on to information that the public needs to ID this perp.

Pic 1 shows the platform they were on/near when they took the video of BG. I imagine he has taken out a weapon around this point and this may be too traumatizing to release what is on that audio ...
The audio of "down the hill" seems to be taken just off the train track on the gravelly road in these pics. You can hear feet crunching on it.
I believe something happened right where the yellow tape is there just off the bridge. Very isolated and covered looking region.
Whatever was filmed or said there..also probably not good for the public to hear.
The recording may not have went for longer than a few minutes..or I'd think more audio or video would have been released by now!!



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[JJ007]

True, but serial killers are not as common as movies / TV might have us believe.

Radford University has some serial killer statistics available online.

Number of serial killer victims by year (USA):

2010 -- 129
2011 -- 91
2012 -- 101
2013 -- 70
2014 -- 71
2015 -- 57
2016 -- 25

(For years 2014 - 2016 they warn to allow for a lag between murder and identification of the serial killer.)

Source: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial Killer Information Center/Serial Killer Statistics.pdf

25 is a little too common for me. I realize we have a huge population, but you never hear it on the news like you should.

 

[Nanjack00]

Well bob, She's not in a tshirt and sweats, just saying. And don't get me wrong I'm not critical of how she's dressed. What got me thinking is that she looks so different from the other photos circulating. Since LE is determined to save any critical updates until they absolutely need public assistance, I gotta work backwards. Starting with : Why were the girls there ? Why was BG there? Do you believe in coincidences ? Fine if you do, I just am not a believer that this vulnerable twosome was out there at the very far end of the trail to go hike on a day off. Again, which teens do you ever see do that at that age? Usually if you see teens out in the country they are partying and that's the 15-20 age group.


Other ?'s may include Why did he take them to a perfect spot to abduct and possibly transport them ? This was meticulously planned out IMO
Thanks for all the thoughtful posts here

I agree with you. It was cold that day and even though it was a mild day for February, it was still very chilly. She dressed like when my girls were younger and they were worried more about how they looked verses how comfortable they were dressed for the environment. I just know that when we go hiking it's sweatshirts, jeans, tennis shoes, hair in pony tail, no make up. Usually a backpack or fanny pack with water if it's going to be a long day. I know not everyone is the same, but I understand completely where you are coming from.

 

[Steleheart]

My first post so go easy on me&#65533;&#65533;. I don't see the resemblance to a scream mask but what I have noticed is what appears to be the outline of a handgun in BG's right jacket pocket. This may have already been discussed but if you're not aware I encourage you to take a close look and let us know if you see it.

:welcome: to websleuths Bracondad!

Thanks for joining the discussion!

 

[deugirtni]

Wonder how long the current LE resources will be devoted to this case (FBI, ISP, etc.) if there are no significant developments? I'm hopeful that behind the scenes they have a solid lead, but on the outside it's starting to resemble a soon to be cold case. MOO


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I got the impression, rightly or wrongly, that if the tips keep rolling in on a large scale, then these other resources will remain involved and otherwise, they will wind down. I also got the impression that LE suggested to the victim families that holding a press conference may help to keep the tips coming in, and it seems that it worked. It's just devastating to think that with a picture, and a voice recording, and presumably even a phone, access to SM accounts, a person on the bridge around 3:45pm(is that time correct?)... there is nothing yet. So many times when a case is reviewed after the fact, it seems like police had a lead on the perp right in the beginning, but for one reason or another, the lead was discounted (fake and corroborated alibi perhaps, slipping through the cracks of multiple hands looking after the tips/files?). I hope they go back to square one and start reexamining everything with a fresh set of eyes. The answer has got to be in there somewhere!

 

[Steleheart]

I keep seeing 'PO'.... but I have no idea what that means. I have heard 'POI' as person of interest.. but PO has me stumped. Can someone please enlighten me? Thank you!!

People have been using PO for the "Property Owner" where the bodies were found. For me it is much more clear to use his actual initials since we know his name. RL is fine I would think.

:cow:

 

[ezrah]

<modsnip>

Libby's grandfather, Mr. Patty, stated that the girls enjoyed taking pictures. When I see the photo of Abby taken by Libby I see innocence. She fixed her hair, selected teen attire complete with Converse shoes. She looked adorable, sweet. IMO Her clothing flaunted nothing except her age. Heartbreaking.

 

[deugirtni]

That seems possible. The arrest seemed to happen right after it was reported that LE was searching at the barn across the street from his house in relation to the double homicide. So maybe they found something linked to the crime, he got scared, and they took him in to "double-secret protective custody."

Either that, or possibly they discovered something during that search that wasn't related to the crime, but exposed him as a probation violator. :thinking:

As the property owner where the bodies were found, one would assume that RL was thoroughly checked out right away, as soon as the bodies were found, and if there had been such a huge probation violation that necessitated incarceration, then why not have taken him in right away? OTOH, if some 4 weeks later, something comes to light during the investigation, something LE is not certain about, and they need time, and/or they want to work on questioning, and/or they have a hunch and want to make sure the area is safe... what a great way to have someone where they know where he is and what he's doing, than to drag him in because it's within their rights to do so for other reasons unrelated? That is kind of similar to what they did with Douglas Garland in the Liknes/O'Brien case here in Canada. They suspected him, but they needed some time to search his property, question him incessantly, etc., and they brought him in and held him on other minor things they found wrong, which gave them some time. Could it be something like that? Although this fellow doesn't look like the same body type to me at all, he's lived there for 50 years, presumably with no violence charges against him, and why would he agree to a news interview.. so doesn't make sense. Stumped!

 

[ezrah]

As the property owner where the bodies were found, one would assume that RL was thoroughly checked out right away, as soon as the bodies were found, and if there had been such a huge probation violation that necessitated incarceration, then why not have taken him in right away? OTOH, if some 4 weeks later, something comes to light during the investigation, something LE is not certain about, and they need time, and/or they want to work on questioning, and/or they have a hunch and want to make sure the area is safe... what a great way to have someone where they know where he is and what he's doing, than to drag him in because it's within their rights to do so for other reasons unrelated? That is kind of similar to what they did with Douglas Garland in the Liknes/O'Brien case here in Canada. They suspected him, but they needed some time to search his property, question him incessantly, etc., and they brought him in and held him on other minor things they found wrong, which gave them some time. Could it be something like that? Although this fellow doesn't look like the same body type to me at all, he's lived there for 50 years, presumably with no violence charges against him, and why would he agree to a news interview.. so doesn't make sense. Stumped!

Anything is possible however tweets by LE today say the PO arrest was a probation violation and not connected to the case.

 

[deugirtni]

Libby's grandfather, Mr. Patty, stated that the girls enjoyed taking pictures. When I see the photo of Abby taken by Libby I see innocence. She fixed her hair, selected teen attire complete with Converse shoes. She looked adorable, sweet. IMO Her clothing flaunted nothing except her age. Heartbreaking.

I have to agree with others though, that she does look rather dolled up for a hike in the woods, and even when we consider her attire in comparison to LG's attire that day. Could it have been a planned meetup for AW, with LG along for the ride... I heard in the beginning that AW did not have a cellphone, but then later it has been said that both girls did. Does anyone know which is correct? If AW did not have her own cellphone, and she was a more private person on SM, it may be more difficult for police to get a handle on her activities and communications, and it could explain LG taking video.. perhaps LG was a little more streetsmart and feeling somewhat hesitant about AW's plans?