IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #30

[Burnt Toast]

I also get him at about 6'0. Around 200lbs. Age guesstimate of late 30's to early 50's, most likely mid 40's.

welcome!

 

[SuziQ]

IIRC RL said he had his property broken into a few times over the time he has lived there...
I see transient or out of towner /former local the most likely options.
Why no one has reported him. He has no one to notice his absences

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These are my thoughts as well.

 

[otto]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7. body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
8. body locations suggest that the suspect has a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
9.
10.

 

[liltexans]

Riley gave a glimpse into the organization of this investigation.

For example, a team of investigators pore over the leads from the phone tip line — 844-459-5786 — and the email tip address — abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com. This team discards tips that already have been cleared and assigns investigators to follow up on new leads, Riley said.

Those investigators file reports after interviewing people, Riley said. Those reports, in turn, are read by other investigators, who often suggest there might be holes, omissions, lies or unasked questions. This sends the investigators back into the field for followup and more reports.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...rating-alibis-given-delphi-killings/99221194/

 

[Jax49]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7. body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
8. body locations suggest a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
9.
10.

Correction. The 13th was Monday.

9. The two sets of girls look alike.

 

[jenthern]

Maybe some better sleuthers can find a picture of serial killer Larry's twin brother. It states they identical. So perhaps we can go on pics of Larry?

I'm not sure how identical twins age. If they look similar as they get older.

I hope this is allowed. I'm new here. Go to about 7:37 and that is his twin. [video=youtube;mQjYonis8FE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjYonis8FE[/video]

 

[Dockins]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7. body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
8. body locations suggest a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
9.
10.

I just cant believe that a killer would know all those things in advance, and happen upon the girls on that date, in that location, and all the other circumstances. It's just my opinion, and that's not even considering the geographical distance.
What are the odds? I do not think these are related.

 

[Burnt Toast]

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

1. two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
2. both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Saturday Feb 13, 2017
3. girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
4. girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river
5. at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
6. at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
7. body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
8. body locations suggest that the suspect has a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
9.
10.

Abby and Libby were murdered on a Monday

 

[chocolope]

The March 13 timeline by Gray is pretty incredible.

Based on the timing of the photos posted to social media by Libby, how long it takes to walk across that bridge, etc. it seems as though he was waiting for the posts to Instagram and proceeded to the North end of the bridge behind the girls. Just seems too much a coincidence that she'd be posting photos immediately preceding an abduction in such an unusual location. Killer(s) absolutely picked the time and place.

Also find it strange that LE mentioned they don't believe the public needs to worry, yet they had 6000 billboards across the country. Only reason they would do this kind of thing (it's contradictory) is if they had some reason to believe that these victims were specifically targeted.

Does anyone have a social media timeline? That's likely how the attacker(s) knew the victims would be there.

 

[Burnt Toast]

The March 13 timeline by Gray is pretty incredible.

Based on the timing of the photos posted to social media by Libby, how long it takes to walk across that bridge, etc. it seems as though he was waiting for the posts to Instagram and proceeded to the North end of the bridge behind the girls. Just seems too much a coincidence that she'd be posting photos immediately preceding an abduction in such an unusual location. Killer(s) absolutely picked the time and place.

Also find it strange that LE mentioned they don't believe the public needs to worry, yet they had 6000 billboards across the country. Only reason they would do this kind of thing (it's contradictory) is if they had some reason to believe that these victims were specifically targeted.

Does anyone have a social media timeline? That's likely how the attacker(s) knew the victims would be there.

What do you mean by "waiting for the posts to instagram?

 

[whiskers]

I hope this is allowed. I'm new here. Go to about 7:37 and that is his twin. [video=youtube;mQjYonis8FE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjYonis8FE[/video]

Thank you! Interesting. I wish could hear him talk more. He sounds odd, but then again the music is in the way and he barely says anything.

 

[chocolope]

What do you mean by "waiting for the posts to instagram?

Was it Snapchat or Instagram? Libby shared 2 photos online right before the attack (the timestamp on the BG audio/video has not provided, so I am assuming here). My theory is the attacker was planning for this day, knew the location, and knew the girls were hiking across the bridge that day. He probably waited for several hours, maybe all morning, for them to show up.

If he was stalking them online, he may have seen the post and knew they'd be on the bridge e.g., at 3:00pm. That's when he made his move.

It'd be helpful if LE provided a timestamp from the audio/photo of BG.

 

[Inspector R fowler]

They can stay hidden pretty well. And it benefits them to do so. So that they are not run off. They commit burglaries for anything they need. And there have been burglaries and trespassers around the bridge area. Which, IMO, looks like the typical setting for vagrants

I like this theory!
It may explain why we are not seeing more development in the case as LE are tracking them and don't want to spoke the suspect that they are closing in. Most of the US requires a car to get places, I learned this when I moved here from the UK. Things are normally quite a distance apart and separated by highways and walking from place to place requires going cross country.
I am sure a person of no fixed abode could be bouncing from place to place following trails, wooded areas and anywhere where he could travel/sleep undetected. I wonder if any of you fellow hikers local to the area could tell me if there are a network of trails where someone could travel long distances from place to place without having to walk roads/towns etc. I notice a train line going through Delphi it would be interesting to see if there are any stations or sidings nearby as this could have been his Infill/Exfil or both. Interested to see the goods train schedule running through Delphi and if it had any planned stops.

 

[jenthern]

Thank you! Interesting. I wish could hear him talk more. He sounds odd, but then again the music is in the way and he barely says anything.

You're welcome. He does talk a little more a bit further on in the video. He doesn't sound like BG IMO.

 

[FIgnacio]

Was it Snapchat or Instagram? Libby shared 2 photos online right before the attack (the timestamp on the BG audio/video has not provided, so I am assuming here). My theory is the attacker was planning for this day, knew the location, and knew the girls were hiking across the bridge that day. He probably waited for several hours, maybe all morning, for them to show up.

If he was stalking them online, he may have seen the post and knew they'd be on the bridge e.g., at 3:00pm. That's when he made his move.

It'd be helpful if LE provided a timestamp from the audio/photo of BG.

I agree with you but not only online is a option to stalk, maybe he followed or watched the girls and learned the routine, IMO.

 

[Jax49]

Was it Snapchat or Instagram? Libby shared 2 photos online right before the attack (the timestamp on the BG audio/video has not provided, so I am assuming here). My theory is the attacker was planning for this day, knew the location, and knew the girls were hiking across the bridge that day. He probably waited for several hours, maybe all morning, for them to show up.

If he was stalking them online, he may have seen the post and knew they'd be on the bridge e.g., at 3:00pm. That's when he made his move.

It'd be helpful if LE provided a timestamp from the audio/photo of BG.

We discussed the time of the video earlier and some people (myself included) believe it was at or near 2:30 pm.

We based that on one version of the billboard showing the perp and indicating he was last seen at 2:30.

 

[whiskers]

I need to stop reading about serial killers so late at night.

I won't clog the thread more with Larry Hall, but I wonder if he's responsive for the unsolved Virginia route 29 murders. Perfect area for Civil War reenactments. And he murdered a woman in Va on one his trips to the state for a Civil War meetup.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

I think I’m onto something big here and it’s taken some time to develop so here me out.

I have a theory that’s tied to the past. There’s a serial killer (It’s unclear to me if he’s been convicted of killing or just abducting several or only one woman at this point), but was convicted and sent to jail in 1995 - Larry Dewayne Hall. He was from Wabash, IN. He is doing life for an abduction. It is assumed he committed a lot of murders. An LE insider believes he had an accomplice (below). I think the accomplice did this crime.

This is a guy who traveled from Wabash, Indiana all the way to Nevada to kill young women the police believe. He (and his brother) both did Civil War reenactments across the country together. It’s been speculated by several investigative writers, expert investigators, witnesses and police officers that Hall had an accomplice in some of the crimes he committed. More specifically there was a police officer at one time (a female officer whose father was a former detective investigating Hall in Wabash, IN). The female officer was interviewed for a book I believe in 2009 and she with her father believed there was an accomplice because the brothers traveled together for one specific event in a specific year a murder happened placing them both at the crime’s specific location stated in the book and interview link below. I believe this to be true as well based on what I’ve read. I’ve read quite a bit. Hall was born and raised in Wabash, IN. It’s not too far from Delphi, IN. Anyway Hall has a twin brother and at one point Gary, his twin tried to give his brother an alibi for the Jessica Roach abduction, which didn’t work - I’m surprised the brother wasn’t arrested at this point, although maybe he was brought in for further questioning, who knows. Regardless their father was a Sexton and they worked in a *cemetery as youths, were abused, bed wetters, alcoholic father, classic serial murder stuff. Larry’s suspected body dump sites were in wooded areas, parks, rivers, etc. The crazy part is Larry Hall has never been convicted of murder, only abduction I believe at this point on a federal charge, although that could have changed recently. All the above is specific to Larry Hall outside of paraphrasing regarding the brother with regard to trips taken as noted in the links below and what the police officer believed. You have to watch the documentary and read the excerpt below from an Unsolved Mystery forum. It’s chilling to say the least. Read the comment first and then watch some of the documentary and you will see where I’m going. I’ve only scratched the surface and think there is much more to read, watch and *hear.

Gary has many times stated he thought his brother killed all the women and that there could be as many as 30 women and very adamant that it was his brother all along. Detectives have approached Gary to try to get him to convince his brother (Larry) to confess who has, but then Larry recanted his confessions each time eluding a conviction. I wonder why he recants? Is it because he had someone else with him and thinks it’s unfair he gets all the credit? IDK, seems really odd to me considering all the stuff he’s said over the years regardless. The good part is that he is still in jail - the bad part is that there is no clue to where a lot of these women are, or if there’s an accomplice running around with a home or residence in Wabash, IN or possibly another Civil War buddy. The information regarding all these women going missing in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and across the US is slowly getting tracked back to Hall and his Civil War reenactment sites. What if there was an accomplice and they’re still out there or just now decided to become active again, but without Larry and by themselves? At one point I read about a murder involving three women who were all abducted together. I can’t imagine one man did that by himself, thus requiring the help of an accomplice possibly which is also being blamed on no other than Larry Hall himself of course. I find that odd.

The following links will help you on your journey.

Here’s the story about Jimmy Keene who went into prison for trafficking drugs. He was asked to go undercover and befriend Larry Hall in finding out where the bodies of several women ended up. He does, but ends up blowing his cover on purpose telling the serial killer that he thinks he’s a disgusting person, etc. I think in one of these books, one of these interviews we can find out who the accomplice is. Maybe there are dates, events (Civil War), etc., that link other murders to someone else still on the outside? Maybe the one you and I are both thinking of at this point? Maybe take the “Down the Hill” audio and compare it to the other person in this Documentary? I’m trying to not be too specific here. Take care.

CNN Documentary
https://youtu.be/mQjYonis8FE

Some good background on other stuff in the case. You will notice some interesting things as you read. This is a comment regarding a book interview, someone who talked to the female LE person, brother, Larry, etc.

Look at Comments after main part of story by “Sharon Hauf 3/10/15” - It’s the first set of comments in the story, not the second set.

http://unsolved.com/archives/angela-hammond

You might find this info on LH interesting: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Hall, Larry DeWayne.pdf


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[FIgnacio]

You might find this info on LH interesting: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Hall, Larry DeWayne.pdf


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Interesting info, IMO the BG is not a new killer, he have experience to left nothing, no clues or traces.

 

[Inspector R fowler]

Looking at the drifter theory and it leads me to think, maybe this is a fugitive or a suspect in another crime. Maybe the photo liberty took spooked him and he went for the camera as to hide his whereabouts as he knew if LE was called the net would quickly close around him.
He may have military training in evading capture and staying concealed, he was probably also aware that LE could easy catch him as he was on foot and was already despite and possibly suffering PTSD.
I think that alone would not have caused him to kill but things may have escalated where his initial intention was to take the phone but things got out of his control. Did one of the girls inadvertent get hurt or killed and the witness was silenced? I wonder why we are not seeing the video did the struggle caused Abigail to fall from the bridge and would serve no purpose to release it as it wouldn't provide any usefulness.
I also think the killer may have intended to hide the bodies but fled the scene when he heard shouts from people looking for the girls. Really hope he is apprehended soon!