IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #33

[Eastonwatson]

Haven't been here in many threads, but the way the search warrant's have played out already... If they originally didn't suspect him at all which the billboards and the waiting of a month or better to perform said search warrant.

They are no closer today then day 1. I still am somewhat stuck at the beginning on this case..

Whose over confidence was it to state that the girls were in no real danger, and to cancel the search...

And who's judgement is it that they have released the best pics they have? When you start speaking for the people that actually know this guy and how you have released the best clues to catching him it's complete B.S

No investigator knows what the people who know this person can distinguish from a video or audio. They put out the best they have tho I guess we're supposed to trust in that lol

I hate to sound negative but nobody has ever addressed the original question, who or what led them to believe the girls were not in danger? Common sense debunks that statement any day.

Crime scenes and evidence dissipates over time. All that evidence that's so germane to the investigation and keeping close to the vest sounds real nice. It's however alarming that they're doing the same thing with this man as they did with all the other search warrant's.

From the search warrant I can only believe that they think it's someone who would have worked for him. If it was his son they already make an arrest on familial DNA. And taking his truck was prob not because the girls were ever in it but the guy they are thinking might of done this that R.L has hired before drove the truck or many people he's hired have drove it/been in his residence.

Does any of the Google maps or earth take pics everyday? Could at least see what time and where a vehicle might of been..

 

[Ashley95]

That wasn't numerology saying the DATES mirror each other. We talked at length back in February that both murders (these girls and Lyric and Elizabeth) both occured on the 13th of the month. Dates are hugely important to some SK. JMO.

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Yeah i agree i took it back and apologised already.

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[Momma2cam]

As a fellow Danielle Stislicki case follower from day one, I understand. I am one that got clobbered on that thread for sticking up for the suspect who has never been named a suspect. Sticking up for his right not to speak and have a lawyer, etc.

I feel the same way with this homeowner. Perhaps it's just one's nature--not sure. I don't like to assume anything unless it's based on fact. But that's me.

I wonder too, with the physical interviews of the landowner if it doesn't bring some empathy because well heck, most all of us have or had a grandfather and maybe it's hard to imagine someone like him who has trouble breathing, someone who's family has owned the land for decades is now suddenly a murderer.

Just as with Danielle's case, the massive media push with her sweet natured image tugged at people's hearts. The person who's house was searched has remained silent. For people here and on that thread who say they woud never be silent...they would want to clear their name no matter what they have to do...isn't this all coming from a different perspesctive from you or I or anyone else? I chalk the differences up to life experiences. To the way we process information.

Have you ever wondered how a jury is unable to come to a unanimous decision? Especially when all the facts were laid out pointing towards guilt? Or so we thought in our minds?

So maybe it's part personal, part life experience, part right to innocence until proven guilty that feeds which way we lean.

Questions were rhetorical and MOO :fence:

Very well said and I do agree with you. I'm not convinced of RL's guilt or innocence either way but I did find myself questioning why I was convinced of SG's (Danielle's case) guilt with even less evidence than in Liberty and Abby's case. That's when I stepped back to look at the vast differences in group think and possible implicit bias as it relates to the alleged suspects/ persons of interest.

You make very good points and at the end of the day, the goal is to find the person(s) responsible for the crime - not a scapegoat. I prefer to follow LE's lead until we know otherwise as I see that being as close to the facts as possible, with assumption they are acting on facts as well. In this case, RL has been named and they have indicated he's not a suspect "at this time" and that they are hoping to clear or link him further to the crimes. I guess for me, that means I'll assume they have some reason he's on their radar- reason can be as simple as starting over to ensure nothing was missed to a DNA match. Hopefully clarity can be given soon.

Admittedly, my emotions are getting the best of me in both cases. The more time that passes, the more I worry that the crimes will not be solved and the longer the victims' families are stuck in grief with no justice.

JMO.

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[iten]

I keep seeing references to RL having said that the murders happened "in his house". Is there a quote somewhere of him saying that? Because "in my backyard" and "on my property" are completely normal things to say. If he said "in my house", that WOULD be beyond strange.

JMO


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From an article (link below) on The Indy Channel:

"Ron Logan has owned that piece of land for 53 years and said that the discovery of the girls’ bodies on his property is something he still hasn’t been able to come to terms with.

'To have something like this in your own house, your own home - I just can't get my mind around it yet, it's really difficult,' said Logan. 'I can't comprehend it.'"

I vaguely recollect seeing him say that in a video / news clip, but can't find it again (and my memory might be playing tricks).

Link: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/delphi-indiana-a-look-at-the-property-where-the-bodies-of-two-missing-teen-girls-were-found

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Very well said and I do agree with you. I'm not convinced of RL's guilt or innocence either way but I did find myself questioning why I was convinced of SG's (Danielle's case) guilt with even less evidence than in Liberty and Abby's case. That's when I stepped back to look at the vast differences in group think and possible implicit bias as it relates to the alleged suspects/ persons of interest.

You make very good points and at the end of the day, the goal is to find the person(s) responsible for the crime - not a scapegoat. I prefer to follow LE's lead until we know otherwise as I see that being as close to the facts as possible, with assumption they are acting on facts as well. In this case, RL has been named and they have indicated he's not a suspect "at this time" and that they are hoping to clear or link him further to the crimes. I guess for me, that means I'll assume they have some reason he's on their radar- reason can be as simple as starting over to ensure nothing was missed to a DNA match. Hopefully clarity can be given soon.

Admittedly, my emotions are getting the best of me in both cases. The more time that passes, the more I worry that the crimes will not be solved and the longer the victims' families are stuck in grief with no justice.

JMO.

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I could never understand the monumental convict without a jury emotion that went on in Danielle's case.

Some people will never believe that an innocent person should not talk to media, LE, etc. We even had an attorney on the DS thread explaining the ramifications of doing so and STILL people argued that the suspect who isn't a suspect should speak up.

The way I look at things is WE are not part of the investigation. WE do not know all of the facts.

We can only tag along for the ride and see if we can figure out the how's and why's and what if's.

 

[Jax49]

I just think end sleuthing him until something happens.

LE never have confirmed bridge guy is 'down the hill' guy...they don't know. So although BG is a POI it doesn't mean he is 'down the hill' guy.

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http://abcnews.go.com/US/shaken-doub...ry?id=46019975

Credit to Beth11311 for finding a statement in a ABCNews report that LE has confirmed the voice (down the hill) is bridge guy. About the 1:26 mark.

 

[kbsweet911]

Idk if this was already covered, but can anyone tell where this photo of Abby was taken in relation to the Monon High Bridge?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4224810/Two-bodies-search-missing-13-year-old-girls.html


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[Etilema]

Completely different to say that the significance of those sets of numbers strikes someone as interesting vs. researching the "evil" number they add up to. I don't believe in numerology, but the murderer could have. Therefore the fact that the numbers are mirror images intrigues me. (FWIW, I don't think the two crimes are connected. Still, this piqued my interest.)

Yes, and if the murderer believed in numerology, then what they add up to could still be relevant. And a murderer wouldn't have to believe in numerology to choose particular dates or mirrored dates.

IMO


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[ninij9]

Yeah i agree i took it back and apologised already.

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I saw, it was too late to edit posts. My apologies to you.☮️

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[Momma2cam]

I could never understand the monumental convict without a jury emotion that went on in Danielle's case.

Some people will never believe that an innocent person should not talk to media, LE, etc. We even had an attorney on the DS thread explaining the ramifications of doing so and STILL people argued that the suspect who isn't a suspect should speak up.

The way I look at things is WE are not part of the investigation. WE do not know all of the facts.

We can only tag along for the ride and see if we can figure out the how's and why's and what if's.

Very true. I recall those posts, too. Similarly, I tried to explain why SG's family may also remain silent and apparently support him as 1. He may be innocent or at least not directly involved or 2. They cannot fathom he would do such a thing and refuse to consider it until if/ when LE has proof for charges. Yet, still they are all shunned and accused of being terrible people presumably hiding a criminal.

This case makes me look at Danielle's case differently, especially after months of silence and no arrest from LE.

Your comments also give me pause regarding RLs involvement. I'm moving closer to the fence and waiting for LE to give more direction.

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[LostOldUserName]

i can't imagine them addressing him as mr logan...

I can. I still call my elderly neighborhood Mr so and so, even though he tells us we don't have to. Maybe it is an local thing but I just always just thought it was a respect thing.

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[Burnt Toast]

about these numbers: 7.13.12 and 2.13.17

I find the above interesting too.

Assuming for a moment that the two cases are related, could the mirror image of the two sets of numbers suggest a dyslexia component?

____________
The above is just my opinion.

You are joking? Insanity!

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i don't think these numbers have any real significance to either case. The numbers above represent a day, month and year. I don't think one can mix up winter from summer.

 

[Jax49]

Idk if this was already covered, but can anyone tell where this photo of Abby was taken in relation to the Monon High Bridge?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4224810/Two-bodies-search-missing-13-year-old-girls.html


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Two or three threads ago we discussed that question--bottom line, it may be close to where the bodies were found. Or it may not even be the Monon High Bridge in the pic. Could be from another state for all we could figure out...hope that helps.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Its hard to make out RLs legs with his pants stuffed in the boots. I think this is causing the bowing. Also would a stocking cap over gray hair make it look darker?

so you see hair in the picture of BG?

 

[Ashley95]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shaken-doub...ry?id=46019975

Credit to Beth11311 for finding a statement in a ABCNews report that LE has confirmed the voice (down the hill) is bridge guy. About the 1:26 mark.

Did not know that BG is down the hill guy 100% wow. Blows out my theory of 2 guys. Apologies again.

Had no idea they confirmed it. They must have more video of him then commiting acts showing its def BG guy.

Wow. I genuinely thought they did not know BG was killer just suspected.

Thank you Jax49! Changes everything.

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[Bird of Paradise]

Haven't been here in many threads, but the way the search warrant's have played out already... If they originally didn't suspect him at all which the billboards and the waiting of a month or better to perform said search warrant.

They are no closer today then day 1. I still am somewhat stuck at the beginning on this case..

Whose over confidence was it to state that the girls were in no real danger, and to cancel the search...

And who's judgement is it that they have released the best pics they have? When you start speaking for the people that actually know this guy and how you have released the best clues to catching him it's complete B.S

No investigator knows what the people who know this person can distinguish from a video or audio. They put out the best they have tho I guess we're supposed to trust in that lol

I hate to sound negative but nobody has ever addressed the original question, who or what led them to believe the girls were not in danger? Common sense debunks that statement any day.

Crime scenes and evidence dissipates over time. All that evidence that's so germane to the investigation and keeping close to the vest sounds real nice. It's however alarming that they're doing the same thing with this man as they did with all the other search warrant's.

From the search warrant I can only believe that they think it's someone who would have worked for him. If it was his son they already make an arrest on familial DNA. And taking his truck was prob not because the girls were ever in it but the guy they are thinking might of done this that R.L has hired before drove the truck or many people he's hired have drove it/been in his residence.

Does any of the Google maps or earth take pics everyday? Could at least see what time and where a vehicle might of been..

Sometimes it's not good to miss so many threads :fence:

"Based on the information given by family and friends, police do not believe foul play is involved and have been given no information that would lead them to believe the girls are in any immediate danger, other than exposure to outside elements."

http://fox59.com/2017/02/14/carroll-county-authorities-continue-search-for-missing-teenagers/

[url]http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/timeline-disappearance-and-deaths-of-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/
[/URL]

 

[Alexsea]

Very true. I recall those posts, too. Similarly, I tried to explain why SG's family may also remain silent and apparently support him as 1. He may be innocent or at least not directly involved or 2. They cannot fathom he would do such a thing and refuse to consider it until if/ when LE has proof for charges. Yet, still they are all shunned and accused of being terrible people presumably hiding a criminal.

This case makes me look at Danielle's case differently, especially after months of silence and no arrest from LE.

Your comments also give me pause regarding RLs involvement. I'm moving closer to the fence and waiting for LE to give more direction.

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Excellent discussion, from both of you. Thanks!


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[iten]

Im not team RL did it yet, however I also don't get the whole feeling bad for him because he's 77. Age is just a number. If you've got it in you it just doesn't go away when you qualify for AARP or anything lol.

I trust LE. They themselves have said that rumors are jamming up their ability to work this case. Yet why would they choose NOW to deal with a harmless old man, who violated his probation, drag him off to jail, then a week later conduct a HUGE raid style search warrant on is House, his Home? Because they said the investigation has lead to them now having "PROBABLE CAUSE".

To me that speaks volumes. Couldn't tell you if RL is BG. Maybe BG is a big fat red herring? But they aren't going to absolutely ruin a man's life in a small town because he drove on a suspended license, or had a drink. JMO.

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This is certainly not the first search warrant to be used in the case and all of those warrants had ‘probable cause’.


For some reason RL is the only one warrant recipient who has been singled out by the media in this way — which might be sufficient reason to feel bad for him.


The police said not long ago that they were focusing on tying off some dead ends. I don’t have a link to a news article / video where that was said, but it was discussed a few threads back, with some focus on the meaning of ‘dead ends’.


Perhaps LE waited this long because they see the ‘tips’ about RL as ‘dead ends’. Nevertheless, if the tips have come in then LE needs to jump through the hoops and either eliminate him (tie off that ‘dead end’) or not.


If RL were high on LE’s suspect list then I would have expected to see them hit him with this warrant weeks ago.

 

[SilentRogue]

There are numerous serial killers that are triggered by dates and times of year etc. I don't watch TV so I wouldn't know of which you speak.

And there isn't any need to talk down to me.

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Can you name a real serial killer who committed a murder pursuant to a date?

My opinion is that there are few, if any, because their urges don't allow them the necessary patience to wait for dates.

Fwiw, I wasn't alluding to a tv show in particular, just that idea that serial killers are these mystical beings that align their actions with dates for some greater meaning is more a movie plot and less of a reality.

MOO.


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[Jax49]

Did not know that BG is down the hill guy 100% wow. Blows out my theory of 2 guys. Apologies again.

Had no idea they confirmed it. They must have more video of him then commiting acts showing its def BG guy.

Wow. I genuinely thought they did not know BG was killer just suspected.

Thank you Jax49! Changes everything.

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It is the ONLY place we've seen that comment---but it was very clear cut.

ETA: No need to apologize. It has been posted a couple times but got lost in the talk of rechecking alibis and then the search warrant for RL's property.