IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #41

[cluciano63]

Jmo, I think the progress LE is making is mainly ruling people out so far.

 

[sbaughman]

I think - MOO - that it's more logical to look at the possibility that one of the two could have gotten away as sheer speculation on our parts. That scenario was mentioned here in response to questions about how the perp controlled two girls at once. Speculation (here) was and is that he might have used a gun, threatening to kill one if the other didn't cooperate. It wouldn't mean that only one was targeted, just that only one could be shot at a time (in their minds).
So, given that the "run away" idea is just an idea and is surrounded by issues of power and control and consequences, we can speculate two things : A) one of them (either one) might have been able to make a run for it with a very dicey outcome (I would never be convinced that the gun wouldn't be fired at me no matter how hard I ran) and a friend left to die, or B) neither of them felt that escape was an option. We, as sleuthers, have no idea what really happened. There is no reason to assume that at any point the perp didn't care if one of them escaped. That is just not likely, either. MOO.

JMO but I've felt from day one that a gun was involved to some effect for the simple reason it was the easiest way to take control of the situation. I agree that there is no way I could convince myself that I could outrun a gun. If you point a gun at me, chances are very high I'm going to do what you ask and hope for the best. But that's just me.


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[Yvettea]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure. I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here. Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness. Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified? I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.Anyone? Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

If one girl had the opportunity to leave, my conclusion is the perpetrator was so well disguised he believed he could never be identified by the girl or he planned to end his life.ETA: willingly allowing one girl to leave could also reflect youthfulness. Someone so inexperienced they are not considering the consequences of what they do.

 

[Patriot10]

If one girl had the opportunity to leave, my conclusion is the perpetrator was so well disguised he believed he could never be identified by the girl or he planned to end his life.

Agreed- suicide is not uncommon for serial killers. When caught, they would rather kill themselves then face a trial, prison, public exposure. It's also their way of maintaining control until the very end. They decide their own fate.

 

[WebSight]

I see everything you are saying seems to be accurate in the photos even the growth coming thru just in front of her feet.Where is the platform just behind her on the left?

For those working backwords through this thread: FWIW: I found this picture of the bridge today and in it you can see the place where Abby would be standing in her snapchat photo. The reason I am posting it is because you can clearly see people standing at the entrance of the bridge. I thought I would share it as we debated those posts versus people theories early on.

ImnoSherlock: Thanks for helping me to see an error. I have gone back and updated my original post to say that the tree over Abby's left shoulder is obscured in the new picture. So that second tree grouping is not the trees you see on the snapchat photo. Those trees are also in front of her still. So, with that in mind the platform on the left lines up correctly.

I have gone back and watched the video from Julie Melvin's youtube video 5, part 2.
Here is a still shot from almost the same place as this picture. Julie is heading back across the bridge to the northwest entrance.

Will I EVER be able to post ANYTHING correctly the FIRST time?:gaah:

 

[Jethro4WS]

That stuff isn't accurate, IMO. They have me living in places I never lived and mixed me up with a person with a similar name.

Worse, it seems that when they associate people with a person they add in anybody who ever lived at the same address.

 

[rainny03]

I'm very curious to know if there was all avenues exhausted in all cameras that day that would see the cars ,trucks ,vans, ect that were seen leaving the park that day.. traffic cams, house security cameras, if there is any business nearby that has cameras?? IMO its pretty hard to not almost always be seen on cameras almost anywhere now days.. just a thought

 

[ocgrad]

I'm very curious to know if there was all avenues exhausted in all cameras that day that would see the cars ,trucks ,vans, ect that were seen leaving the park that day.. traffic cams, house security cameras, if there is any business nearby that has cameras?? IMO its pretty hard to not almost always be seen on cameras almost anywhere now days.. just a thought

In other cases this is one of the first steps of LE/FBI. Considering all the officers on this I think we should feel confident this was done.

 

[WebSight]

Ocgrad I answered your question in post #606 but I took so long that I think you may have moved passed it. So #606. Thx.

 

[Theforeigner]

Am I right that it was stated that the neighbor that found them, for some reason, touched the bodies? ....could be it was their DNA and have now excluded it?:facepalm:

My highlight in red.

I have never heard that before, and have no ide if that is true or not.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I apologize if anyone thought I was accusing RL in this post. I was simply trying to hypothesize a scenario where he could have participated in this crime, as well as trying to clarify(IMO) why the authorities had PC for the SW. I still don't believe RL is BG, nor do I believe he was a participant in the crime, but am willing to at least consider the possibility. Again, statistically, it would make sense, but sometimes these things, especially if it turns out to be a SK or something else, don't always fit with statistical models. Hope that clarifies what I was trying to convey.

Trying to clarify things, as I understand them, so obviously, these are my opinions/speculations based on what we know(or think we know)...
First, I believe that whether RL participated in this crime or not, in the eyes of LE, the girls simply be found on his land makes him "involved", and that alone(girls found on his private property) is likely enough PC for the SW.
Second, since we don't know where the girls were between the time they dropped off and the time they were on the bridge, I'm willing to speculate that they could have ventured onto RL's land during that time, and had some sort of interaction with him, or simply been seen by him. I still can't see RL being BG, but accept that it's possible. I believe RL is plenty agile, strong, etc to have perpetrated this crime, I just can't get to a motive.
Third, given the meticulous work and seemingly tedious attention paid to detail in the videos by GH, I came away with a few things that I feel fairly certain of: a) Liberty was ahead of Abigail on the bridge, probably throughout the whole span(?) b)in the photo of Abigail, BG is nnot on the bridge yet, and c) when Liberty reached the end, she turned to take another picture/video of her buddy, and saw BG nearly on top of her(assuming, as several have, that blur in the one photo taken from video is actually Abigail).

Now, if those facts and speculation are correct, we can assume that LE won't release any more video captures because, quite possibly, in the next few frames the crime is commencing. Maybe he is subduing Abigail, or worse? We can also speculate that shortly after, the girls are directed "down the hill", and are probably not alive much longer afterwards.
Back RL and the SW: I assume/believe that the SW would have been good procedure regardless of what LE thought of RL's alibi. Statistically(and LE operates largely on statistics), the property where murder victims are found has a high likelyhood of being the scene of the murder, and the property owner(and ALL of his property) are going to be closely scrutinized. If his lawyer advised him to be silent due to the pending probation violation, this would have been frustrating to LE, and maybe served as a catalyst for the SW, but again, I believe PC was there as soon as the girls were found.
The simplest solution is obviously that RL is either guilty or a participant, and this investigation may well come to that conclusion, however...I hope/pray/beg, that if the evidence DOESN'T bear that out, that LE not get "tunnel vision", and be become unwilling to look at the possibility of something outside their usual profiling formula, because from some of the things I read in the news, there are subcultures of the criminal underworld which seem to be evolving, and LE would do well to pay attention, if they aren't already. This case has affected me on a very personal level, for some reason, and I get on here each day hoping to see that the person(s) has been charged and is in custody. Trying hard to stay optimistic about that. If nothing else, in researching these kinds of crimes, I've had my eyes opened to how dangerous it can be to be a woman or young girl in this world we live in. That's heartbreaking. Ladies, stay safe. And my fellow gentlemen...BE gentle men.

 

[ab01]

In other cases this is one of the first steps of LE/FBI. Considering all the officers on this I think we should feel confident this was done.

Maybe the what wasn't caught on camera made LE think that BG didn't go very far[emoji848]


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[carbuff]

Hey there. *waves at all the people walking by on this lap of the track*

Still hoping and praying for answers.

 

[ezrah]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure.

I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here.

Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)

Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness.

Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified?

I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.

What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

Here is the comment made by Sgt Slocum in the radio interview about maybe the girls had a chance to separate. Credit to poster who transcribed and posted it in media thread.

 

[ab01]

Here is the comment made by Sgt Slocum in the radio interview about maybe the girls had a chance to separate. Credit to poster who transcribed and posted it in media thread.

I wonder if he made that assumption based on the length of the audio/video they have. Or based on the content of the Audio/video.....[emoji848]


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[Hazelnutty]

Here is the comment made by Sgt Slocum in the radio interview about maybe the girls had a chance to separate. Credit to poster who transcribed and posted it in media thread.

Thank you for this. And thanks to everyone helping me see this from different perspectives.

Won't be long now til this Monster is behind bars

 

[cloudajo]

I am greatly disappointed that posters believe RL had anything to do with these murders.
Third DUI charges are considered felony charges and felons must submit DNA.
RL would have been required to submit DNA.
Have any of you ever thought that someone entered his home while he was gone and was afraid to report it as he would be in violation of probation if h admitted to be out of his county?

Not everyone believes that - I don't.

 

[Confusion]

I'm going off in a different direction. JMOO Maybe I've been at it too long. Not sure.

I've read all threads, all posts. If I remember correctly, I've read it more than once, that one of the girls had an opportunity to get away. Instead, she chose to stay with her friend. Because she loved her, because they were inseparable. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. May God have mercy on all of us seeking to find the answers here.

Maybe LE knows this from the recording, I'm not sure where exactly this info came from. My device and internet speed is in no condition to root through the vast amount of threats, posts, etc, for this particular comment( s)

Where I'm going- - - if it is true that one had the opportunity to leave, that seems to me to mean that the other girl was targeted. Does that seem too weird to contemplate? So, the other girl was the sole target? The other had the opportunity to leave, but didnt. If that's true, that means the man didn't care if the other girl left, didn't care that she was going to run for help, didn't care that she could ID him and be a perfect witness.

Why would the man not be afraid to let her go? Not be afraid to be identified?

I am not passing judgement on the girl who could have gotten away, but chose to stay. Never would I. My heart breaks for these girls and their families.

What I'm getting at, what could be the circumstance that this murderer would have allowed the other girl to get away? This has never made any sense to me.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for helping me get a perspective or insight here.

The way I see it is that one or both of them (at separate times) may have gotten loose from his grip, but tried to get him to let go of the other rather than running to safety.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Exactly-- he looks very comfortable on those tracks, as if he'd been on them many times before. Walking on the right side would come automatically to him, no matter that he could lose his balance and fall. You'd think a newbie or a visitor to that area would instinctively walk in the center. That's what I would do as I'm not from Delphi and have never actually walked on train tracks that are elevated.

That's such a great point, Patriot10! It makes me think of those old b&w pictures from the 1930s where workers building skyscrapers walked along beams hundreds of feet off the ground without hesitation (or apparent hesitation).

Perhaps BG has a job where he walks heights like that or is well off the ground regularly.

 

[sf92]

I am greatly disappointed that posters believe RL had anything to do with these murders.
Third DUI charges are considered felony charges and felons must submit DNA.
RL would have been required to submit DNA.
Have any of you ever thought that someone entered his home while he was gone and was afraid to report it as he would be in violation of probation if h admitted to be out of his county?

Unless restricted by terms of his probation, he would be able to travel throughout Indiana. He would not be allowed to leave state without approval of the courts though. So it is unlikely that he would violate any terms by simply traveling to the next county over since it did not involve crossing a state line.