IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[expatCanada]

Agree that going to our scanner thread is very educational. Thank YOU for your hard working bringing all the information to us. Much appreciated.

I keep posting this for OUR members to go read (it's a private forum for members only)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-and-Abigail-Williams-Scanner-Thread

ETA: we cannot discuss the scanner thread up here per TOS.

Generally speaking, MSM has done shoddy reporting about the search. Like I said, you will learn more about the searches including the exact times different kinds of searches took place in the scanner thread. I would not rely on any of the MSM reports of search activities - not the least of which is the one that says that the searches began at 11:45am. Nor would I rely on what Leazenby said when talking about searches - especially the dogs - which also wasn't accurate. I say this because the actual Fire and Police scanner traffic says otherwise.

 

[WebSight]

How are we so sure they were at the SE side of that bridge.

This very distinct tree is at the south end of the bridge, very near the end, and as Libby took the "photo," that places them there also. HTH

 

[otto]

How did he know where to cross the creek? He's out there in the open trying to control two girls and he's looking for a place to cross the creek where his feet won't get wet. Sounds like you're saying this was well planned.

I do think this was planned. I think he saw the girls being dropped off at the North end of the park, parked at the cemetery, and hoped that he could corner the girls. I think he was dressed with two hats (ball cap and hoodie), and two jackets (hoodie and coat) to obscure his identity. He was most likely also wearing boots, and carrying whatever he needed to abduct, restrain, and murder the girls. It's likely that no one saw him on the trail because he approached the girls from the SE end of the bridge, passed then, and turned around to approach them. I think that it is because of this unusual behavior that he was photographed. I think he walked a ways North on the bridge to see if anyone else was nearby, then turned around to face the girls and made his move.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Okay, this is going to be really unpopular, but does it really matter what end of the bridge they went off, where the "down the hill" happened? We have our theories, of course. They were found where they were found. We have all the released photos, which seem to point to the south end, but what, exactly, does that prove. If they went off the north end, how does that help us? Just asking the question. I'm really not trying to cause controversy here.


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No offense taken here. I think I said something similar a couple of weeks ago. :biggrin:

 

[expatCanada]

Same. Families write the obit. Seems like only a few of us have had to write one.

Same here. I wrote my son's obituary and the funeral home published it on their website as I wrote it and forwarded it to the local paper who did the same.

 

[Yvettea]

I do think this was planned. I think he saw the girls being dropped off at the North end of the park, parked at the cemetery, and hoped that he could corner the girls. I think he was dressed with two hats (ball cap and hoodie), and two jackets (hoodie and coat) to obscure his identity. He was most likely also wearing boots, and carrying whatever he needed to abduct, restrain, and murder the girls. It's likely that no one saw him on the trail because he approached the girls from the SE end of the bridge, passed then, and turned around to approach them. I think that it is because of this unusual behavior that he was photographed. I think he walked a ways North on the bridge to see if anyone else was nearby, then turned around to face the girls and made his move.

There's a road that runs right under the bridge. Why not just park there?

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think it's near impossible to know that.
but that's my thought

No. The trees align. Trees are like fingerprints. No two are identical. Also, the railroad ties were matched and the platforms along the sides of the bridge can be seen and those are known (you can see in any aerial or satellite photo) to be in specific positions and relationships to each other. All of those things combined will lead you to a near exact, if not exact location.

GH does this for a living. I don't think LE would use this person if they were just guessing at things. It is also why you see that GH didn't just stop after the first attempt but kept working at it to refine the positions.

 

[Bemused]

Fair enough, but bouncing off that thought, what does having them present prove? Did they think RL would make a run for it?

Did you not ask about SM death threats? I thought you did and that's what I responded to. Apologies if I misunderstood your question.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Generally speaking, MSM has done shoddy reporting about the search. Like I said, you will learn more about the searches including the exact times different kinds of searches took place in the scanner thread. I would not rely on any of the MSM reports of search activities - not the least of which is the one that says that the searches began at 11:45am. Nor would I rely on what Leazenby said when talking about searches - especially the dogs - which also wasn't accurate. I say this because the actual Fire and Police scanner traffic says otherwise.

Do you think it's possible that local dogs were there in addition to the specialized group that was coming from Illinois?

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Maybe only one was the intended target, and the other was injured and died from hypothermia? I believe the low temp that night was listed as being in the 20's. This also works with my initial theory, as well, although it's impossible to be sure w/o more info from LE.

Possibilities include being kept alive longer or assuming death had occurred or death was imminent and the guy wanted to get the heck out of there. I'm assuming it was still daylight when the girls were attacked, IMO.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Did you not ask about SM death threats? I thought you did and that's what I responded to. Apologies if I misunderstood your question.

Yes I did, but as I said...bouncing off your thought of the big brass being there, what purpose did that serve? To send a message? And to who?

 

[Bemused]

Yes I did, but as I said...bouncing off your thought of the big brass being there, what purpose did that serve? To send a message? And to who?

I guess when LE makes an announcement who is under arrest for the murders of Abby and Libby we'll have that answer.

 

[Alexsea]

No offense taken here. I think I said something similar a couple of weeks ago. :biggrin:

Sorry, so slow to catch on. It seems so obvious now... do I get to still play the new card?


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[Falling Down]

If it were still daylight and someone went down that path it would be hard not to see the girls. Especially since there would have been two bodies. One could argue you could miss one - but miss two? I doubt it.

By the time the searchers were by the bridge on the 13th, there was little daylight. The sun would have been low in the sky, and dusk was approaching. Not long after dusk, LE said they believed girls were not in danger. So there was no haste in their search.

 

[cluciano63]

Families do not choose date of death. Coroner does that.


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For obituaries, the paper prints what you write. It is not checked. I have written a few. The death certificate date may be different. Jmo

Also a friend recently lost a son and he was not found right away. They use the date he was found.

 

[WebSight]

If the girls were not located at the SE end of the bridge as I've marked on the map, where were they?

Where would you place the "SE end of the bridge" in the map?

Otto, the bridge goes over land as well. It does not end on the other side of the creek. It is 800+ feet long and 60 feet high. I think where the marker for the girls is not terribly accurate but I couldn't move it so FYI, don't count on that being precise.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

At the time of the SW executed on the 17th or March, LE said "4 to 6 weeks" for all evidence to be processed. That was roughly 3 weeks ago. Until all that evidence has been processed, they aren't going to clear or arrest anyone. IMO

You don't think it had to do with the SM death threats? I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out why so much attention on RL and why LE ISN'T coming out one way or the other about him.

 

[Frolic with me]

In my opinion, If RL was the murderer he would've been charged with double counts of murder by now, not probation violation for drinking and driving.

I have a theory that BG came across the girls right after they were dropped off. BG immediately became infatuated with ABBY and LIbby noticed this but kept it a secret (not telling ABBY) thinking nothing untoward would come of it. As they walked past him, BG stops to glance back at his prey walking deeper into the trail and deciding right then and there to bring his fantasy to fruition. In my opinion he deliberated with himself of how to carry out this crime. There was an extra person he had no use for, but to get to ABBY he had to subdue both of them or risk losing ABBY forever. BG, in my opinion, was angry that LIBBY was there. She was his only obstacle in his way. BG made his way back up the trail to carry out his devilish deed, but to his consternation, the girls were on that rickety bridge! But the plan was in motion and he wasnt going to allow no bridge to stop him, and besides they were still in his domain. At what point ABBY and LIBBY noticed him I dont know. My theory is BG never focused on LIbby thus giving her ample time to record him. In my opinion i believe BG would not of attacked LIBBY if she was there alone as she is not his ideal victim type. Ted Budy had his type, jeffrey Dhamer had his type, BG too has his preferences. This only my theory.

Another theory I have is BG took a memento from one of the victims he most preferred and it could've been anything from earrings, underwear, rings, ID cards, necklace, et cetera. I believe that none of these items were recovered at RL home thus excluding him from the crime. Unless RL dug hole and buried the girls belongings in a tiny chest.

Another poster on here had mentioned her theory of a duo or a pair of killers working in tandem with each other. Although rare it is not unheard of in the annals of crime history. If that is the case, one killer has dominant qualities and the other has submissive qualities. In my opinion if we're dealing with two devils in this case then BG is the more dominant personality of the duo as it was him who solely corralled the girls.

 

[otto]

Okay, this is going to be really unpopular, but does it really matter what end of the bridge they went off, where the "down the hill" happened? We have our theories, of course. They were found where they were found. We have all the released photos, which seem to point to the south end, but what, exactly, does that prove. If they went off the north end, how does that help us? Just asking the question. I'm really not trying to cause controversy here.


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For me, understanding the key points helps me understand what happened. The terrain on the North side of the river seems too steep, but on the South end it is relatively flat after going down the hill towards the residential driveway. Knowing where they were dropped off, where they were abducted, and where they were found helps identify where the suspect was parked.

 

[layer]

I have no doubt they passed on different days.

:what:

I tend to think they were both dead by the time people started searching for them, but there is very little about this case in which I could say "I have no doubt".