IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[LaneGirl]

So at no point would you consider abduction, rape or murder because there were two of them but if they were on their own you would consider it?

Pretty sure Scout's post was immediate thoughts. After a couple of hours of searching contacting family etc I bet the situation would change.

BUT my immediate thought would not be abduction, rape or murder for two teens.

It would be they left with a friend. I'm gonna hug then ground them when I find them.

BUT after a few hours of searching calling everyone utter panic (as opposed to worry) would set in!

 

[Bird of Paradise]

No, I know what evidence is. Facts that can convict in a court of law. Until a post mortem is performed it will be a sudden or suspicious death with a suspicion of murder only. The PM may confirm that suspicion or not. E.g.if water was present in the lungs and they had been shot, for example. Or they had head injuries and water in the lungs or positive toxicology reports. Many things constitute evidence including the audio tape.

And if a person is found decapitated in the middle of nowhere would you not agree that constitutes a homicide? The ME would give the details of when/how it in their opinion it occurred. But is it not obvious that LE are dealing with a homicide?

If a person is found with 50 stab wounds and blood on the walls and surfaces and an obvious struggle took place in the locaton would that not qualify as a homocide in your mind?

 

[Spiritecho]

I'm pretty sure, IMOO, that if the monster that did this took the girls anywhere in a car, they would either have never been found or they would not have been found right where they were last seen. For that matter, I don't think this monster took them up to anyone's barn, did whatever and then what? carried them back to close to where they were last seen? dragged them back there? SMH

 

[Shiressleuth]

Pretty sure Scout's post was immediate thoughts. After a couple of hours of searching contacting family etc I bet the situation would change.

BUT my immediate thought would not be abduction, rape or murder for two teens.

It would be they left with a friend. I'm gonna hug then ground them when I find them.

BUT after a few hours of searching calling everyone utter panic (as opposed to worry) would set in!

Scout gave opinion over several hours and thru the night but then clarified he was talking about teen boys not girls. If my teen girl had been missing just for a couple of hours I would have been frantic. My teen boy, I admit I would not have had so much concern but still concern. And my OH was LE so we would probably worry even more. Luckily we have never had to test this personally. But a parent's worst nightmare for sure.

 

[michael.gartley]

Has anyone discussed the technical details of the ISP released audio clip? I searched and cannot find it on this forum.

http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

There are three file formats, .wav, .ogg, and .mp3

The .mp3 version has a sample rate of 44.1kHz, .wav version has a 8kHz sample rate, and I did not look at the .ogg version uses a 44.1kHz sample rate. There are not many frequencies above 4kHz in the MP3 or OGG versions, even though the sampling rate would permit information up to 22kHz. The max frequency in the WAV version is 4kHz.

Here is a screenshot showing the frequency spectrums for all three versions from Audacity.

In my opinion, the spectrum being mostly limited to 4kHz and below frequencies indicates one or more of the following:
* LE purposely low-pass filtered the audio from a recorded video source
* the audio was recorded using the phone's voice recorder app, which commonly defaults to a 8kHz sample rate
* something I don't understand

 

[Scout12]

Hi Shire,

I didn't mean to imply that I would not be frantic or would not be that worried throughout the night, I was just trying to explain why the search might have been called off at a certain point. I was talking about girls, but since I have sons, I clarified that my initial thoughts might be different if I was the parent of a girl. The main point I was trying to make is after a few hours of searching the woods without finding my kids I would be inclined to move my focus to other possibilities outside of the woods. p.s. I hope by my profile "figure" you can tell Scout is a female!

Scout gave opinion over several hours and thru the night but then clarified he was talking about teen boys not girls. If my teen girl had been missing just for a couple of hours I would have been frantic. My teen boy, I admit I would not have had so much concern but still concern. And my OH was LE so we would probably worry even more. Luckily we have never had to test this personally. But a parent's worst nightmare for sure.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Pinging is an electronic request in this case to a phone asking it to return requested information. Due to emergency services mandate (when you call 911 and they get your location in an emergency) a latitude and longitude from the phone is sent back via a ping.

So exact locations can be found.

IT's possible they pinged the phone and found the phone Libby was using right away. I'm not up to date on this case so I'm not exactly sure when and what has been released regarding the phones, or the pinging.

Sometimes people use the word ping when they just mean that the carrier shows your last tower used. But pinging is a specific action taken to request information from a phone. The phone owner isn't even aware it happens.

Thank you for explaining. I remember also LE saying they pinged the phones that first day. So they should have got accurate positioning info is what you're saying (unless the phone had been found and destroyed by BG before they pinged the phones) . That's interesting IMO. It does explain MP's comment also. So were the girls with their phones which were pinging around town? Or had BG already murdered and left them by the Creek, taking their phones with him, so the pings were his movements till he destroyed them?

 

[LaneGirl]

Thank you for explaining. I remember also LE saying they pinged the phones that first day. So they should have got accurate positioning info is what you're saying (unless the phone had been found and destroyed by BG before they pinged the phones) . That's interesting IMO. It does explain MP's comment also. So were the girls with their phones which were pinging around town? Or had BG already murdered and left them by the Creek, taking their phones with him, so the pings were his*movements till he destroyed them?

I would first question the source of "pinging around". Did LE make several pings (which is a specific request from the phone re location) or did family get basic information from cell carrier that showed which cell towers the phone connected to and incorrectly use the term "ping"? Those are two different things.

ETA - Here is the map of cell towers. As the girls were walking around, texting and snap chatting they could have hit a couple cell towers as their phone sent texts etc. But again I'm not super familiar with what was released about "pinging around town".
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=40.40062626780702,-86.40000880000002&z=10

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi Shire,

I didn't mean to imply that I would not be frantic or would not be that worried throughout the night, I was just trying to explain why the search might have been called off at a certain point. I was talking about girls, but since I have sons, I clarified that my initial thoughts might be different if I was the parent of a girl. The main point I was trying to make is after a few hours of searching the woods without finding my kids I would be inclined to move my focus to other possibilities outside of the woods. p.s. I hope by my profile "figure" you can tell Scout is a female!

Sorry scout for getting your gender wrong. And thanks for elaborating.

 

[Yvettea]

Has anyone discussed the technical details of the ISP released audio clip? I searched and cannot find it on this forum.

http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

There are three file formats, .wav, .ogg, and .mp3

The .mp3 version has a sample rate of 44.1kHz, .wav version has a 8kHz sample rate, and I did not look at the .ogg version uses a 44.1kHz sample rate. There are not many frequencies above 4kHz in the MP3 or OGG versions, even though the sampling rate would permit information up to 22kHz. The max frequency in the WAV version is 4kHz.

Here is a screenshot showing the frequency spectrums for all three versions from Audacity.

In my opinion, the spectrum being mostly limited to 4kHz and below frequencies indicates one or more of the following:
* LE purposely low-pass filtered the audio from a recorded video source
* the audio was recorded using the phone's voice recorder app, which commonly defaults to a 8kHz sample rate
* something I don't understand

I would like to know more about this and understand what it means.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Has anyone discussed the technical details of the ISP released audio clip? I searched and cannot find it on this forum.

http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

There are three file formats, .wav, .ogg, and .mp3

The .mp3 version has a sample rate of 44.1kHz, .wav version has a 8kHz sample rate, and I did not look at the .ogg version uses a 44.1kHz sample rate. There are not many frequencies above 4kHz in the MP3 or OGG versions, even though the sampling rate would permit information up to 22kHz. The max frequency in the WAV version is 4kHz.

Here is a screenshot showing the frequency spectrums for all three versions from Audacity.

In my opinion, the spectrum being mostly limited to 4kHz and below frequencies indicates one or more of the following:
* LE purposely low-pass filtered the audio from a recorded video source
* the audio was recorded using the phone's voice recorder app, which commonly defaults to a 8kHz sample rate
* something I don't understand

snipped by me for space

Since I recently started using Audacity for scanner traffic, am I to understand that the low pass would help to isolate BG's voice and reduce background sounds?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I would first question the source of "pinging around". Did LE make several pings (which is a specific request from the phone re location) or did family get basic information from cell carrier that showed which cell towers the phone connected to and incorrectly use the term "ping"? Those are two different things.

ETA - Here is the map of cell towers. As the girls were walking around, texting and snap chatting they could have hit a couple cell towers as their phone sent texts etc. But again I'm not super familiar with what was released about "pinging around town".
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=40.40062626780702,-86.40000880000002&z=10

I don't know the answers, only what has been reported. Both used the term ping is all I know and Sapere asked the original question which I am bumping. Thanks for the info.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't take anything from what Rl said as the girls never went to a car, Imo. Never went anywhere, except whatever path took them to where they were found.

 

[Scout12]

No worries.

Sorry scout for getting your gender wrong. And thanks for elaborating.

 

[michael.gartley]

snipped by me for space

Since I recently started using Audacity for scanner traffic, am I to understand that the low pass would help to isolate BG's voice and reduce background sounds?

Sounds very plausible, and would explain the sampling rates of the 3 provided audio files and the frequency content of the audio.

I just did a Google search for low-pass filtering to isolate human voices. It seems to be common to filter out frequencies beyond 3-4kHz to best isolate voice. I don't have much expertise in audio analysis, other than the mathematics of it

Wondering out loud if it's possible to remove the voice to better hear everything else in the clip?
Not something I know how to do, but will look into it.

 

[Jabarn]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HH3twaMV9Fg

Watched Gray Hughes' video #2 again tonight. It shows very well the parking area where the girls were likely let out of the car to begin their day's adventure, as well as the cemetery on the other side of the creek.

It makes me wonder if there is a simple explanation for why so many of the police cars involving investigators are parked at the cemetery. It may be because from there, they don't have to cross the creek.

To me, and IMO, that would indicate there isn't necessarily evidentiary value in the cemetery itself, but an easier way for the investigators to reach the crime scene.

 

[Jabarn]

Sounds very plausible, and would explain the sampling rates of the 3 provided audio files and the frequency content of the audio.

I just did a Google search for low-pass filtering to isolate human voices. It seems to be common to filter out frequencies beyond 3-4kHz to best isolate voice. I don't have much expertise in audio analysis, other than the mathematics of it

Wondering out loud if it's possible to remove the voice to better hear everything else in the clip?
Not something I know how to do, but will look into it.

There has to be, IMO, and I agree, the background noises are very helpful, especially what sounds like, to me, the individuals involved walking through crunching leaves.

 

[Shiressleuth]

LE and professional searchers will say that searching after dark often leads to searchers themselves getting lost or injured.

Also OT, watching an episode of "Nightmare on Main Street" on ID, two teen girls missing, then found murdered. The detective assigned said right away it was assumed they were sexual murders due to the ages, which was the case. Very few other realistic motives, especially with two girls. With just one victim, maybe a murder would be more personal and targeted, Imo.

If these Delphi murders were sexual assaults, LE is not doing the community any favors by keeping it from them. This would mean others are in danger. As it is, residents are being allowed to speculate that these girls were targeted and killed for some other reason, i.e couldn't happen to them. Jmo

So you think they were sexually assaulted and killed due to their age and sex. Do you think they knew the killer or arranged to meet beforehand perhaps?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

There has to be, IMO, and I agree, the background noises are very helpful, especially what sounds like, to me, the individuals involved walking through crunching leaves.

Jabarn, I thought it sounded like leaves when I first listened to it as well but then more recently, I'm hearing a rubling sound (I said horse trotting another person mentioned a washing machine). So I'm wondering if it's possible to isolate the voice and by doing that it accentuates another frequency, for ex bass vs treble.

 

[Confusion]

There has to be, IMO, and I agree, the background noises are very helpful, especially what sounds like, to me, the individuals involved walking through crunching leaves.

After I tried recording while walking with my phone in my pocket, I believe that is what the noise is. I had originally thought it sounded like rustling leaves too.