IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Deleted member 172065]

ERR ON SIDE OF CAUTION. Considering the dangers of the bridge, possible hypothermia, etc., I do not think police should have called off search first night. I suppose it was a resources issue.


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[MistyWaters]

Also mulling over something...since the pic was an approach from a bit afar, and IF this was her first encounter with him, Libby shows an amazing ability to sense his intention. IF this is the case, LE may have been astounded with Libby's abilities here, remembering that for many LE it can take YEARS of working with people, to build up a treasureload of instincts...Libby may have done something that even seasoned LE might not have, and remembering that she is so young, may be much admired. And we cannot forget Abby because they might have both sized this up together as a team. One may have encouraged the other, as such a good friend. We are all lucky when we have real friends.

I agree. The circumstances that motivated Libby to capture BG on video is one of the biggest mysteries of this case.

On Feb 15th, LE released the photo of the man on the bridge, wanting to talk to him because of anything he might have seen.

That changed on Feb 19th.

"Delphi resident MH says she saw a flurry of activity, with local, state and federal officers and agents rushing in and out of the municipal building Sunday.

"I was hoping that meant they had detained someone," said Harrington. "It’s a worry for this community. It’s a worry for everybody."

Just hours later, state police said that preliminary evidence led authorities to the conclusion that he's a suspect.

"During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German," said Indiana State Police in a press release.
http://fox59.com/2017/02/19/man-pho...ficially-a-suspect-in-deaths-of-delphi-teens/


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[Shiressleuth]

I agree. The circumstances that motivated Libby to capture BG on video is one of the biggest mysteries of this case.

On Feb 15th, LE released the photo of the man on the bridge, wanting to talk to him because of anything he might have seen.

That changed on Feb 19th.

"Delphi resident MH says she saw a flurry of activity, with local, state and federal officers and agents rushing in and out of the municipal building Sunday.

"I was hoping that meant they had detained someone," said Harrington. "It’s a worry for this community. It’s a worry for everybody."

Just hours later, state police said that preliminary evidence led authorities to the conclusion that he's a suspect.

"During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German," said Indiana State Police in a press release.
http://fox59.com/2017/02/19/man-pho...ficially-a-suspect-in-deaths-of-delphi-teens/


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That's possibly when they first had accessed the audio. IIRC audio was then publicly released on the 22nd. MOO.

 

[Maplesyrup]

I agree. The circumstances that motivated Libby to capture BG on video is one of the biggest mysteries of this case.

On Feb 15th, LE released the photo of the man on the bridge, wanting to talk to him because of anything he might have seen.

That changed on Feb 19th.

"Delphi resident MH says she saw a flurry of activity, with local, state and federal officers and agents rushing in and out of the municipal building Sunday.

"I was hoping that meant they had detained someone," said Harrington. "It’s a worry for this community. It’s a worry for everybody."

Just hours later, state police said that preliminary evidence led authorities to the conclusion that he's a suspect.

"During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German," said Indiana State Police in a press release.
http://fox59.com/2017/02/19/man-pho...ficially-a-suspect-in-deaths-of-delphi-teens/


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If the flurry of activity was noted on Feb 19 then I wonder why it would take this long for such a flurry of activity if they were in possession of the actual phone. I always hope LE are on top of things and using copious amounts of common sense and the tremendous resources available to them. The skeptical side of me surfaces when I think of the area where I grew up but no longer live. You could almost commit murder in front of the courthouse and get away with it. I hope they literally jumped all over this case from the moment the girls were found. I am thankful the FBI was involved so quickly. Just my ramblings from a suspicious mind. All IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If the flurry of activity was noted on Feb 19 then I wonder why it would take this long for such a flurry of activity if they were in possession of the actual phone. I always hope LE are on top of things and using copious amounts of common sense and the tremendous resources available to them. The skeptical side of me surfaces when I think of the area where I grew up but no longer live. You could almost commit murder in front of the courthouse and get away with it. I hope they literally jumped all over this case from the moment the girls were found. I am thankful the FBI was involved so quickly. Just my ramblings from a suspicious mind. All IMO.

A couple of days before this the Bicycle Bridge Road search was conducted. Perhaps the phone was recovered in that vicinity. LE may have tracked the phone and discovered it ended up in that vicinity perhaps tossed from a vehicle. AJMO.

 

[jillybean51]

A Delphi resident recently told me that she and the people she knows are staying off of social media because of all the talk and finger pointing-things mostly being said and done by non-residents. I was hoping to get some Delphi opinions but what she said made it totally more understandable. Some of the things being said and done are crazy.

I think it makes sense that they didn't call the police right away. These were not tiny girls. I mean, I think of them as babies, but these were girls that were old and independent enough to be out for a few hours without adult supervision. They might have waited around for the first half hour thinking that the girls were just running late. Caught up taking pictures, perhaps met up with a friend, got to talking, etc. But then, when 45 minutes to an hour rolled around, they might have gotten concerned and then started walking the trail themselves, worried that one of them got hurt. In this situation, my instinct would have been to assume that everything was okay in the beginning. As a parent of a child that age in that situation (out in the woods, hiking a place they knew, etc.) I wouldn't have started freaking out until they were an hour or more late and I couldn't find them on the trail. Heck, when my mom used to drop me off to go hiking and stuff, I always got a grace period of around 20 minutes. She'd bring a book.

Of course, this is all my opinion. I don't even know if the person/persons that were meant to pick them up even looked on the trail. I am just posting a hypothetical.

I would of gotten worried when they didn't answer their phone/ phones. People have their phones glued to them these days!


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Turned off means cutting the power source off. I have not yet found a source that states something can transmit data when the energy has been shut off. I will acknowledge it fully if you can show me a creditable source.

Power off means nothing is there to send/receive and I've searched the internet to find otherwise since this has come up in another thread I'm participating in.

Batter dieting or removing isn't any different than cutting the power source off. Its off. Unless you can show me different. I have been wrong in the past.

ETA - hahaha I mean battery dying.

The NSA is all knowing and all powerful.

Per the Washington Post, and presuming it's a creditable source:

By September 2004, a new NSA technique enabled the agency to find cellphones even when they were turned off. JSOC troops called this “The Find,” and it gave them thousands of new targets, including members of a burgeoning al-Qaeda-sponsored insurgency in Iraq, according to members of the unit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9b6fe264871_story.html?utm_term=.7530ef8a38d8


Of course, its not really possible without doing super secret spy stuff... probably through wide scale malware that makes the phone appear to be off when it's still on:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t..._cellphones_even_when_they_re_turned_off.html

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/nsa-track-off-mobiles,news-17851.html

http://techpp.com/2013/08/22/track-phone-turned-off/

Presuming they really do this, I doubt they share it with local LE.

And, you know, I'm sure its only used against mid-eastern terrorists... they would never collect location data on US citizens on US soil... &#128530;&#128526;<=spy emoticon

 

[Peace777]

Now I am pondering some ideas based on the last few pages of posts. Kids are so quick with their phones today, just amazing. I do wonder one thing, many young people post videos of events they know are wrong. Perhaps Libby realized very early on in the encounter that the way they were being initially spoken to was wrong and she would have proof later to show. Many young people with phones today are capturing awful behavior that an adult would have gotten away with before just because they were the adult.

How far away was BG from Libby when the video was taken I wonder? If she sensed immediate danger couldn't they have just run away before he got closer to them? Maybe they did try to run we don't know . LE have gone quiet

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Reiterating something someone posted upstream.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out the Netflix documentary called The Keepers. It's about the cold case of Sr. Cathy Cesnik, who was murdered in 1969, and the efforts of two of her then-students, who are trying to piece together the events.

Those two lead sleuths are tenacious, articulate, and resourceful. When they had a box of old VHS tapes to listen to in their search for a snippet of an old TV interview, it reminded me of the painstaking work people do in the scanner thread.

Check it out. It's in eight parts with each one being ~one hour.

Oops. It's in seven parts, not eight.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[MistyWaters]

That's possibly when they first had accessed the audio. IIRC audio was then publicly released on the 22nd. MOO.

Maybe but no one outside theory fits perfectly to the sequence of events released by LE through the media, why I say it's a mystery.

If the audio was contained in the same video of the BG image, they had that access to it on Feb 15th as well. LE are still careful to separate the voice and the image, that it may not be one and the same person.

I still wonder if Abby had a cellphone. Nothing has been said to confirm or deny it but considering she was 13 and her mom worked, even though she also lived with her grandparents, I think it's highly likely. If not, it still doesn't rule out the possibility she brought one along, perhaps belonging to her grandparents.

I can find no official source to the recovery of the video came from iCloud but if I've missed it, I'd appreciate confirmation that it indeed was.

Otherwise early on, theories sprung from Libby's cellphone pinging around town (since disputed as a possible normal function of a cellphone reaching any one nearby tower based on tower capacity. But as a result, I think maybe came the theory that the cellphone wasn't recovered so the video must've been obtained by iCloud. The media feature of the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce demonstrating the procedure they used to recover information directly from at least one cellphone belonging to the girls, related to the Delphi case further proves a cellphone is in the possession of LE. But it's unknown when or where it was found.

Still lots of variables while LE keep what evidence has been gathered close to their chest. Even if the audio/video hasn't identified the perp, once that's accomplished through other means, it may assist in resulting in a guilty plea. While us who are couchside observers would like to know all the facts, I can imagine avoiding a media-sensationalized trial would be the desired scenario for the families.



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[SomeoneElse333]

Has there been any new developments in this case? It's gone silent nationally.


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The only thing I've seen lately is an article about the dedication of a bench in memory of A&L and the four children who died in the intentionally lit fire.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I'm in my fifties, but I look with absolute awe upon the engineering feats that we have around us. Sometimes I see the young people, teens mostly, hanging out in a place I look at and cringe, so high..., but that is the spirit of discovery I admire. Just reading about how they built the Lincoln Tunnel is like Wow! That bridge is amazing, a testament to a past generation!

The St Louis Arch is the one I am amazed by. Building it from both sides to meet in the middle at the very top?! They had to be so precise! Yet I can't find a house where the door jams are even. Sigh...

 

[Burnt Toast]

Has there been any new developments in this case? It's gone silent nationally.


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unfortunately no. the last bit of relevant information was now three weeks ago when they said they were still waiting on forensic testing results from their FBI lab in virginia. i was actually surprised they shared that, but i don't expect them to release the results. their silence is deafening.

 

[Jabarn]

Maybe but no one outside theory fits perfectly to the sequence of events released by LE through the media, why I say it's a mystery.

If the audio was contained in the same video of the BG image, they had that access to it on Feb 15th as well. LE are still careful to separate the voice and the image, that it may not be one and the same person.

I still wonder if Abby had a cellphone. Nothing has been said to confirm or deny it but considering she was 13 and her mom worked, even though she also lived with her grandparents, I think it's highly likely. If not, it still doesn't rule out the possibility she brought one along, perhaps belonging to her grandparents.

I can find no official source to the recovery of the video came from iCloud but if I've missed it, I'd appreciate confirmation that it indeed was.

Otherwise early on, theories sprung from Libby's cellphone pinging around town (since disputed as a possible normal function of a cellphone reaching any one nearby tower based on tower capacity. But as a result, I think maybe came the theory that the cellphone wasn't recovered so the video must've been obtained by iCloud. The media feature of the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce demonstrating the procedure they used to recover information directly from at least one cellphone belonging to the girls, related to the Delphi case further proves a cellphone is in the possession of LE. But it's unknown when or where it was found.

Still lots of variables while LE keep what evidence has been gathered close to their chest. Even if the audio/video hasn't identified the perp, once that's accomplished through other means, it may assist in resulting in a guilty plea. While us who are couchside observers would like to know all the facts, I can imagine avoiding a media-sensationalized trial would be the desired scenario for the families.



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At the top of the picture of Abigail on the bridge it says "7h ago." That makes me think it was pulled from the cloud.

 

[tuffgongc9]

At the top of the picture of Abigail on the bridge it says "7h ago." That makes me think it was pulled from the cloud.

Good observation. I don't have snapchat, so I don't know if that number changes depending on when other people view it in the app?

 

[Shiressleuth]

One thing about the release of the photo of BG was that initially LE just wanted him to come forward. Then with the audio release he became a suspect. In between those events was the BBR search and so the audio is significant evidence IMO as it records the actual crime in part or whole. Any further evidence they have would presumably back up the evidence on the audio.

 

[Jethro4WS]

At the top of the picture of Abigail on the bridge it says "7h ago." That makes me think it was pulled from the cloud.

LE never released that image, nor the other SnapChat image that is looking toward the south end of the bridge. Those images were taken from an individual's FaceBook page by the media (The DailyMail for sure, and picked up by other media). The post of the SnapChat images to the individual's FaceBook page happened before 11pm the night of the 13th. Therefore, neither of the SnapChat images is indicative of whether or not LE has possession of Libby's phone.

 

[No it's not]

I am wondering, who moved from the Delphi area to another state, like to California for example.

-Nin

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr:

I think I've found some good potential matches for the possible rope. Some I have in my possession, reminder to elaborate.

Secondly, Cold Case Files, Episode "The Tournequit: Burning Desire, 2002. 0:17.

http://www.aetv.com/shows/cold-case-files/season-4/episode-16

0:17

Can someone please help screenshot? TIA.

 

[MistyWaters]

At the top of the picture of Abigail on the bridge it says "7h ago." That makes me think it was pulled from the cloud.View attachment 117456

There are many media references to Snapchat. None that I can find mentioning iCloud.

"The case has been dubbed “The Snapchat Murders” because of two haunting photographs posted to the social media platform by Libby before the friends were murdered."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2990909/snapchat-murder-suspect-picture-libby-german-abigail-williams/



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