IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Deleted member 189081]

Imo, it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone whose grandmother had recently died to be in the cemetery, would it?

I have been advised this Monon Trail is a different trail o the one in Delphi

 

[Maplesyrup]

If Libby recorded him out of fear, then why did they both not flee instead? That is what bothers me. I really think there was one murderer; just can't figure out why the girls didn't call 911 or flee instead of Libby recording BG. Maybe they saw him as weird but didn't see the absolute danger they were in until it was too late. If there was a second bad guy it would all make more sense but the kind of person I think did this usually does it alone.

I know we all do things that don't follow lucid thinking when in a moment of danger/fear/emergency but not sure how much to attribute to that or look for answers to why they did what they did.

I think your idea that they had already seen him and he was acting odd toward them and caused them to become frightened when they saw him approaching makes sense. The moment they were sure he was after them was likely when he did pull a gun, and if he actually grabbed Abby and held the gun toward her that would have been enough to control both for sure. Maybe just pointing the gun at both was enough.

I don't think it would have mattered if they had called 911, I think it would have all been over by the time LE was able to respond and find them. That happens over and over because bad things can happen in seconds, minutes. I also truly believe he would have shot them if they fled or one fled, after all he is a murderer.

Many children aren't aware of the evil that exists in this world. Even if their parents repeatedly tell them to be careful, etc what innocent child would ever expect or anticipate running into an evil homicidal monster in an area where they have always felt safe. This was their little hometown and they would never expect something bad to happen there, least of all to them. As far as calling 911, it may never have occurred to them. If they didn't think something horrible would ever happen in Delphi...or to them...why would they call 911? My thought is they would run if anything. It is easy for us to sit back with hindsight and ask why no 911 call. I know adult women who won't rock the boat by doing such a thing. These were innocent girls. They had no reason to think they were about to make world news or be discussed around the clock by people like us on Websleuths. All IMO.

 

[mtnlites]

Many children aren't aware of the evil that exists in this world. Even if their parents repeatedly tell them to be careful, etc what innocent child would ever expect or anticipate running into an evil homicidal monster in an area where they have always felt safe. This was their little hometown and they would never expect something bad to happen there, least of all to them. As far as calling 911, it may never have occurred to them. If they didn't think something horrible would ever happen in Delphi...or to them...why would they call 911? My thought is they would run if anything. It is easy for us to sit back with hindsight and ask why no 911 call. I know adult women who won't rock the boat by doing such a thing. These were innocent girls. They had no reason to think they were about to make world news or be discussed around the clock by people like us on Websleuths. All IMO.

I agree. I think she was creeped out enough to record him but only in a "OMG just wait until the others see this *******" kind of way. I do not think she believed that they were in any real danger until it was too late.

 

[Evania]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, I read a lot on this case but haven't posted.. does anyone think there is a link between this case and the 2 cousins who were found murdered in Iowa? Roughly 6 hours from Delphi. The circumstances are eerily similar.

I am literally split down the middle with this theory. On the one hand, it appears like a giant coincidence. But with the mirror death dates, I'm asking if it's a little too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence? 2/13/17 and 7/13/12....I suspect that BG is a SK, so I definitely haven't dismissed a possible connection between these two cases. I know some SK's are into weird symbolism such as significance of dates and rituals. I know it has definitely raised the eyebrows of the families of the girls in Iowa. JMO



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[Blue Amethyst]

No one is asking for a full narrative but it just seems to me none of us on this forum knows where the Trail Head is. And I've read every thread but that's MOO.

I don't know how to bring it forward but perhaps Nin will. There is a great map on Thread 45, Page 39, Post 585 that Nin put on back on April 6th. If you look in the upper left corner it shows Access 1 and Access 2 in relation to the other important points on the map. I hope it will help to get your directions straight. I know I was twisted in mine for quite awhile until I looked at Nin's maps. Many thanks to Nin. You could also go back and find the page if you want to look right away.

 

[FrostedGlass]

That "footprint" thing has always been one of many mysteries to me. It seems that if any searchers began at the end of the cemetery and worked their way down the hill, the bodies should have been pretty easy to see (unless they were covered). I'm thinking the water searchers found the footprints on the creek bank.

And... why only "a set" (that's pretty specific)? It sure seems like Libby and Abby's footprints should have been there, too; then it should have been said: "footprints".

There was no mention of "following" a set of footprints that I recall. My memory was that a set of footprints was noticed. If so, that could simply be a clue that someone recently crossed the river, maybe stepped on a sandbar. Can you find the original quote?

Here's the original quote:

[FONT=&amp]Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.[/FONT]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

 

[oinge]

If someone ask me where the"Trail Head" for the High Bridge Trail, I would direct them to the Centennial Stone described at the following link:

http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273&Itemid=154

 

[JnRyan]

I agree. I think she was creeped out enough to record him but only in a "OMG just wait until the others see this *******" kind of way. I do not think she believed that they were in any real danger until it was too late.

I'm starting to believe that was the reason for the video.

As for BG, I don't believe this is his first time to commit a crime against children. I do tend to believe this is his first killing. I originally thought it might premeditated and while I haven't discarded that theory I believe this was a crime of opportunity. However, even if it wasn't premeditated I believe BG was prepared. He happened to see Abigail and Liberty being dropped off and he hung back to give them distance as he wanted them on the bridge. He had what he needed in his vehicle. That might have been what caught Liberty's attention - he was moving rapidly in their direction. (I didn't see him in the snapchats taken at 2:07 and they were both on the bridge.)

Apparently he left both bodies right where he killed them and I wonder what that tells us about the fact he didn't try to bury them. It was purely opportunistic and he had no means (shovel) to bury them? He is unorganized? More often the killer buries his victim or dumps the body some distance from the crime scene.

 

[kat913]

I'm starting to believe that was the reason for the video.

As for BG, I don't believe this is his first time to commit a crime against children. I do tend to believe this is his first killing. I originally thought it might premeditated and while I haven't discarded that theory I believe this was a crime of opportunity. However, even if it wasn't premeditated I believe BG was prepared. He happened to see Abigail and Liberty being dropped off and he hung back to give them distance as he wanted them on the bridge. He had what he needed in his vehicle. That might have been what caught Liberty's attention - he was moving rapidly in their direction. (I didn't see him in the snapchats taken at 2:07 and they were both on the bridge.)

Apparently he left both bodies right where he killed them and I wonder what that tells us about the fact he didn't try to bury them. It was purely opportunistic and he had no means (shovel) to bury them? He is unorganized? More often the killer buries his victim or dumps the body some distance from the crime scene.

JMO of course but I think he left the girls there because he is very organized and very brazen and was outta town within moments. It is such a bold act , to me it appears as if he knew exactly what he was doing, when and he had been prepared for some time. I know the girls were also off on break from school on Friday so he could have been quietly stalking them for a few days.

My opinion of course

 

[Peace777]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...llers-modus-operandi-signature-staging-posing

 

[Sapere aude]

That was excellent detective work. Surely LE would be on that straight away in this case?

It was a business practice within the telecommunication branch years ago, that cell phones (the hardware e.g. Nokia) were given as an "add on" to an telecommunication account (whether or not prepaid). That means, you went in a shop and have the option to get e.g. five different hardware cell phones with prepaid.

If you had chosen e.g. a Nokia cell phone, the shop employee opened the parcel with Nokia cell phone, put the SIM Card (which is also in the parcel) with the pre - defined number eg. 0664 1231231 into your new NOKIA cell phone and the number 0664 1231231 is in consequence the first time activated. The new customer paid and went out without any registration.

BUT the telecommunication provider obviously knows, when the prepaid phone was the first time activated and they know w h e r e (=in which shop) it was sold.

So they know number 06641231231 was sold on the 24th of January 2005 at 9:00 am by telecom store xy, in the Main Street 23, Vienna. So, if the store had a video surveillance and they stored the data, LE must only have a close look at the video of 24th of January at 9:00 am of the shop in Main Street 23 to get a wonderful photo. If it was paid by credit card, they also would know the credit card number. Bills have to be archived for at least 7 years.

LE would need a judge order to investigate video data or credit card data.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't know how to bring it forward but perhaps Nin will. There is a great map on Thread 45, Page 39, Post 585 that Nin put on back on April 6th. If you look in the upper left corner it shows Access 1 and Access 2 in relation to the other important points on the map. I hope it will help to get your directions straight. I know I was twisted in mine for quite awhile until I looked at Nin's maps. Many thanks to Nin. You could also go back and find the page if you want to look right away.

Thank you for that. I found it and it is very helpful. Perhaps it can be put on the maps and media thread so posters can be aware of these trail access points (unless already on there).

 

[Peace777]

"Residency: Organized offenders may be married, have a family, and be well liked by their friends. Disorganized offenders, because of their mental instability and immaturity, tend to live alone or with a family member.

Proximity: The location of the perpetrator’s home in relationship to the crime scene is important. Most kill close to home, a factor that is particularly true with the first few victims. The area close to home is a comfort zone. With experience, however, the killer may move his predatory boundaries farther and farther from home."

Forensic profiling of a predator for dummies it says>>http://www.dummies.com/education/science/forensics-profiling-the-perpetrator/ FWIW

 

[Shiressleuth]

It was a business practice within the telecommunication branch years ago, that cell phones (the hardware e.g. Nokia) were given as an "add on" to an telecommunication account (whether or not prepaid). That means, you went in a shop and have the option to get e.g. five different hardware cell phones with prepaid.

If you had chosen e.g. a Nokia cell phone, the shop employee opened the parcel with Nokia cell phone, put the SIM Card (which is also in the parcel) with the pre - defined number eg. 0664 1231231 into your new NOKIA cell phone and the number 0664 1231231 is in consequence the first time activated. The new customer paid and went out without any registration.

BUT the telecommunication provider obviously knows, when the prepaid phone was the first time activated and they know w h e r e (=in which shop) it was sold.

So they know number 06641231231 was sold on the 24th of January 2005 at 9:00 am by telecom store xy, in the Main Street 23, Vienna. So, if the store had a video surveillance and they stored the data, LE must only have a close look at the video of 24th of January at 9:00 am of the shop in Main Street 23 to get a wonderful photo. If it was paid by credit card, they also would know the credit card number. Bills have to be archived for at least 7 years.

LE would need a judge order to investigate video data or credit card data.

Sapere, that makes so much sense. It would be a great way to track these criminals . Why does everyone say these phones are untraceable ?

 

[Shiressleuth]

That "footprint" thing has always been one of many mysteries to me. It seems that if any searchers began at the end of the cemetery and worked their way down the hill, the bodies should have been pretty easy to see (unless they were covered). I'm thinking the water searchers found the footprints on the creek bank.

And... why only "a set" (that's pretty specific)? It sure seems like Libby and Abby's footprints should have been there, too; then it should have been said: "footprints".



Here's the original quote:



http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

Thank you for posting this. I have just gone through the media thread without finding it so if you don't mind I will report on your post and ask if they can add it to that thread.

 

[Beth11311]

In most cases I have followed the ME uses the date found as the TOD because after 24 hours body temp does not give an accurate estimate. The Autopsy repoort has been sealed by court petition. Both families had used both the 13 and the 14th for the obits but they don't have access to the autopsy report either.

All JMO

Thank you! You know so much, it's incredible. Thank you!

 

[cluciano63]

Apparently, not many people were around that day, so getting the girls to the area where they were found was probably fairly easy, and leaving them there the easiest thing to do. All he had to do walk awat and vanish, which he did quite successfully. I think BG was long gone before the scheduled pick-up time, probably by 4pm or so. Jmo

 

[Shiressleuth]

If someone ask me where the"Trail Head" for the High Bridge Trail, I would direct them to the Centennial Stone described at the following link:

http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273&Itemid=154

Thank you. This article explains the different Trail Access points of which there are several.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thank you for posting this. I have just gone through the media thread without finding it so if you don't mind I will report on your post and ask if they can add it to that thread.

Thanks. I don't mind at all.

 

[Jennifer17]

Apparently, not many people were around that day, so getting the girls to the area where they were found was probably fairly easy, and leaving them there the easiest thing to do. All he had to do walk awat and vanish, which he did quite successfully. I think BG was long gone before the scheduled pick-up time, probably by 4pm or so. Jmo

I thought that the pick up time was 3pm.