IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[madduck74]

I wish LE could, or would... Give people a little more info to help keep people that are trying to help from getting sidetracked. Maybe they could limit some of the useless tips.

For example... I've spent quite a lot of time trying to identify the white "thing" under his chin. If they could say, that is not important or relevant, I think info like that would help.

 

[htiff]

I've followed the case since day one. .

The killer had, obviously, a familiarity with the trail prior to the abduction (late summer/fall?), plus IMO he may have considered other trails. He knew where to hide a vehicle, knew trail access points, knew where to corner victims, knew where to conceal bodies, had weapons, dressed in an extra layer, knew there was no school, and, presumably, had an escape route. It was late winter in Delphi, usually snow on the ground but not then. Probably not a lot of people on the trail... an opportunity... IMO he planned this well and planned it in advance.

He could be hiding in plain sight. Someone's brother, father, uncle, husband... not from the area... A reward would not bring results if people haven't put two and two together. Remember the Green River Killer and BTK living in mainstream society? The public needs one more clue - a weapons description.

The one thing that makes me think the killer lured the girls is the photo. Why would LG take a photo of a stranger? Just doesn't seem logical...

As to the sketch, I am skeptical because it was made weeks after the fact. Witnesses aren't always accurate, and who's to say this person's sketch was connected to the killer? Not a local with that hat, which would totally stand out in the Midwest where baseball type caps are the norm.

You make some really good points. I'm not sure how far in advance he planned this, but it could be that he did walk those trails often, and thought about doing something like this, and then one day a situation makes itself available.

This case has me looking at similar types of crimes. There is case in Iowa but I also came across a case in Canada where the killer abducted two girls who were walking through a somewhat isolated area--and he did go after two girls at once.

I'm almost wondering if it's not all that unusual for killers who prey on younger victims to in a way, or at times, be forced to go after two victims at the same time. I doubt Abigail and Liberty's parents would have just let one of the girls go on that trail by themselves that day. They probably thought the girls would be safe because they were together. So maybe the opportunity of a lone victim of that age, just wasn't possible for the Delphi killer---he had to take on two victims if he was going to attack at that spot.

The Abbotsford Killer attacked two teenaged girls as his first victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Driver

The killing of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey in Iowa in 2012, also involves the killing of two girls at once, in a rural area.

http://whotv.com/2014/08/22/investigators-release-suspect-profile-in-murder-of-evansdale-cousins/

In the Iowa case we can't be sure it was a lone killer, but below is an interesting profile of that killer put together by the FBI:

http://evansdalepolice.org/suspectinfo.html

 

[htiff]

This next may be old news to most here, but something else on this case that I hadn't realized until I was looking over some of the older articles, is that by March 2017, LE stated that they had already issued over 70 Search Warrants and subpoenas on this case. That's a lot of subpoenas and warrants to be issued in a month:

"According to Fox 59, investigators in Indiana have served approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas and checked on the probation status of dozens of sex offenders, many of whom were cleared as suspects in the murders based on interviews, alibis or polygraph examinations."

http://kfor.com/2017/03/13/police-continue-investigation-of-several-people-of-interest-a-month-into-murder-investigation-of-indiana-teens/

 

[htiff]

From the profile for the killer of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey in Iowa in 2012:

The following items are possible characteristics the suspect may have, however should not be considered factual and the suspect or suspects may or may not possess one or all of the characteristics described here.


​

• The offender most likely acted upon an opportunity to abduct Lyric and Elizabeth when they were seen in the Evansdale area.
  
  ​

• The offender is familiar with both Meyers Lake/Angels Park in Evansdale and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Bremer County. The offender specifically chose Seven Bridges Wildlife Area because of the offender’s familiarity with the area and the fact that it afforded the offender privacy needed to commit the crimes with limited risk of detection by others.
  
  ​

• The offender likely used some form of “quiet coercion” to garner Elizabeth and Lyric’s initial compliance in leaving the park. This could have involved communication of a ruse or threats of violence.
  
  ​

• The offender blends in with and may be a part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities. It is unlikely that the offender is a transient or someone who was merely traveling or “passing through” the area.
  
  ​

• The offender may have experienced stressors in the offender’s life in the time period leading up to July 13[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012. These stressors may have included legal problems, psychological/mental health difficulties, conflict(s) with their significant other or spouse, employment difficulties or financial strain.
  
  ​

• The offender is likely following any media reports regarding the investigation but may deliberately avoid discussions with others about the case or any public display of interest about the investigation.
  
  ​

• The offender may have attempted abductions in the past and these attempts may have involved minor or adult victims.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the appearance of the offender’s vehicle. This may have involved cleaning the interior or exterior of the vehicle or permanently changing the appearance through painting or re-upholstery.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the offender’s physical appearance to include, changing hair style/color, growing/removing facial hair, etc.​

BAU case experience indicates that the vast majority of these types of offenses are committed by one offender. However, there are cases in which more than one offender was involved in some part of the criminal act. Therefore, the public is strongly encouraged to contact law enforcement with any suspicion involving a single offender, multiple offenders or any individual they are suspicious of -- whether or not the person possesses any of the characteristics mentioned above.
This information is being released to the public in hopes it will assist the public to remember specific activities/characteristics of individuals around the date of the girls abduction and report it to investigators.
The public is warned to take no action on their own based upon these characteristics but are asked to report their suspicions to law enforcement so they may be properly investigated and individual’s rights protected.
​

http://evansdalepolice.org/suspectinfo.html​

​

 

[ImnoSherlock]

From the profile for the killer of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey in Iowa in 2012:

The following items are possible characteristics the suspect may have, however should not be considered factual and the suspect or suspects may or may not possess one or all of the characteristics described here.
​

• The offender most likely acted upon an opportunity to abduct Lyric and Elizabeth when they were seen in the Evansdale area.
  
  ​

• The offender is familiar with both Meyers Lake/Angels Park in Evansdale and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Bremer County. The offender specifically chose Seven Bridges Wildlife Area because of the offender’s familiarity with the area and the fact that it afforded the offender privacy needed to commit the crimes with limited risk of detection by others.
  
  ​

• The offender likely used some form of “quiet coercion” to garner Elizabeth and Lyric’s initial compliance in leaving the park. This could have involved communication of a ruse or threats of violence.
  
  ​

• The offender blends in with and may be a part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities. It is unlikely that the offender is a transient or someone who was merely traveling or “passing through” the area.
  
  ​

• The offender may have experienced stressors in the offender’s life in the time period leading up to July 13[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012. These stressors may have included legal problems, psychological/mental health difficulties, conflict(s) with their significant other or spouse, employment difficulties or financial strain.
  
  ​

• The offender is likely following any media reports regarding the investigation but may deliberately avoid discussions with others about the case or any public display of interest about the investigation.
  
  ​

• The offender may have attempted abductions in the past and these attempts may have involved minor or adult victims.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the appearance of the offender’s vehicle. This may have involved cleaning the interior or exterior of the vehicle or permanently changing the appearance through painting or re-upholstery.
  
  ​

• In the time period following July 13, 2012, the offender may have made attempts to alter the offender’s physical appearance to include, changing hair style/color, growing/removing facial hair, etc.​

BAU case experience indicates that the vast majority of these types of offenses are committed by one offender. However, there are cases in which more than one offender was involved in some part of the criminal act. Therefore, the public is strongly encouraged to contact law enforcement with any suspicion involving a single offender, multiple offenders or any individual they are suspicious of -- whether or not the person possesses any of the characteristics mentioned above.
This information is being released to the public in hopes it will assist the public to remember specific activities/characteristics of individuals around the date of the girls abduction and report it to investigators.
The public is warned to take no action on their own based upon these characteristics but are asked to report their suspicions to law enforcement so they may be properly investigated and individual’s rights protected.
​

http://evansdalepolice.org/suspectinfo.html​

​

The FBI was supposedly making a profile for the BG back in Feb.The lack of one officially/publicly released is what initially made me think that there is more than one suspect.

 

[htiff]

The FBI was supposedly making a profile for the BG back in Feb.The lack of one officially/publicly released is what initially made me think that there is more than one suspect.

I was wondering why there wasn't a profile for Abigail and Libby's killer. With all the other information, that might be helpful.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The FBI was supposedly making a profile for the BG back in Feb.The lack of one officially/publicly released is what initially made me think that there is more than one suspect.

Some local LE do not release the FBI profile publicly and use it only as a tool to assist the investigators.

Even if they did release one in this case I think it would be pretty much inline with Lyric and Elizabeth's case which says this:

BAU case experience indicates that the vast majority of these types of offenses are committed by one offender. However, there are cases in which more than one offender was involved in some part of the criminal act.

I have never thought it was more than one offender and I don't think LE believes there is more than one and they positively think BG is the suspect who murdered these two girls. BG didn't need any help doing these horrific murders. He controlled both by fear and intimidation threatening to harm one or both if they did not comply to his demands. He didn't need help disposing of the bodies because he left them were they were murdered. imo

Unfortunately through the years even the FBI profiler has been wrong in past cases, and that is why they always use the wordage of 'may have' because the profile may turnout to be incorrect.

I do think this was a crime of opportunity when BG saw two young vulnerable girls in a remote area and they were alone. If BG is a sexual predator they are always cruising areas like this, and are always prepared in case the opportunity presents itself.

IMO

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I was wondering why there wasn't a profile for Abigail and Libby's killer. With all the other information, that might be helpful.

I've been wondering why someone here doesn't type up a list of facts compiling them from the media/timeline/map sources posted on page one here that is in an easy to read document.

I'm another one that's been here since day one and so many of the questions asked lately have already been answered and/or proven factually correct/incorrect. Lots of y'all are spinning donuts here and it's not necessary.

I'm making a mental note to myself to do precisely what I stated above for the next case I follow. In the meantime, if some haven't already looked, check out the timeline thread on page one of every thread. The maps and info are enormously helpful and every new article is added as it happens.

Above said in all sincerity and MOO

 

[cluciano63]

I still don't think temps in the forties is too warm for a coat, especially up on that bridge where it is likely to be windy, jmo. His coat is not odd enough to be a flag for me, appropriate for February. Jmo

 

[KayCherry]

Here is an interesting article on portable meth labs. Notice the fertilizer...
http://somechicksblog.com/make-meth/shake-and-bake-or-one-pot-meth-making
Also, aquarium pump and tubing
I am kind of freaked out by this,. I was not leaning towards a drug connection but now I'm not ruling it out.
I haven't thought about RL for months but this grabbed my attention...tropical fish store alibi. Could RL have supplied items to someone? Also, who was the 70+ yr old man that GH debunking video 6 refers to?
This is all farfetched IMO but this caught my attention.

Daae:
You really came up with some idea regarding the alibi -

 

[htiff]

I've been wondering why someone here doesn't type up a list of facts compiling them from the media/timeline/map sources posted on page one here that is in an easy to read document.

I'm another one that's been here since day one and so many of the questions asked lately have already been answered and/or proven factually correct/incorrect. Lots of y'all are spinning donuts here and it's not necessary.

I'm making a mental note to myself to do precisely what I stated above for the next case I follow. In the meantime, if some haven't already looked, check out the timeline thread on page one of every thread. The maps and info are enormously helpful and every new article is added as it happens.

Above said in all sincerity and MOO

Are you saying that there is a profile for Abigail and Libby's killers put out by LE? That would be interesting to see.

 

[htiff]

I've been wondering why someone here doesn't type up a list of facts compiling them from the media/timeline/map sources posted on page one here that is in an easy to read document.

I'm another one that's been here since day one and so many of the questions asked lately have already been answered and/or proven factually correct/incorrect. Lots of y'all are spinning donuts here and it's not necessary.

I'm making a mental note to myself to do precisely what I stated above for the next case I follow. In the meantime, if some haven't already looked, check out the timeline thread on page one of every thread. The maps and info are enormously helpful and every new article is added as it happens.

Above said in all sincerity and MOO

I think however the list is put together, it should include links to the articles and references that support the list.

 

[Ember123]

It's a theory based on meth users being unpredictable, dangerous and not to be approached (see your link) Its based on him having stuff in his jacket similar to tubing as well as a bumbag, a rucksack, gun possibly, heading seemingly to a secluded and empty property/outbuilding. Its a theory that is JMO.

Additionally, the trail entrance on the Mears property was closed partly due to comings and goings at all times of the day and night IIRC.

Yes Shire, and I also recall reading something about many ppl often standing out front of mears property, lots of workers it was suggested, ... Anyone recall this? I def do but cannot recall source. Were they really workers or ... ???

 

[htiff]

Below is a map of the streets around the portion of the Monon High Bridge Trail that are relevant to this case. The road that goes directly under the bridge appears to be public, N 625 W and intersects at W 200 N---W 200 N intersects with the Hoosier Heartland Highway.

(It's possible that as 625 nears the home that it leads to, as it goes under and past the Monon bridge, that this section is private--I couldn't tell from the map. But it looks like a public road.)

The houses in that vicinity on 300 and 550 are all very nice--multi-bedroom, expensive for the area. One thought that occurred to me as I traveled the area virtually by way of Google Maps is that, possibly (and this is highly speculative), the killer was actually back in this area checking for possible burglary opportunities, and happened on the girls. That's the area he's in--easy access to the rear of some of these nicer homes. And though he may not have planned on doing anything that day, it's the perfect way to scope out the terrain. Violent crime is low in Delphi, but personal property crime is in keeping with the national average.

The railway itself appears to be owned by CSX Transportaion. They own access rights--I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monon_Railroad

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I think however the list is put together, it should include links to the articles and references that support the list.

Of course. Goes without saying.

The media/timeline thread has links but I'm wondering if because of the many posts and time since the actual murders, people are not referring back to it.

Because if one did, you'd find 99% of the answers to the questions asked here.

LE has not released a profile.

 

[htiff]

Of course. Goes without saying.

The media/timeline thread has links but I'm wondering if because of the many posts and time since the actual murders, people are not referring back to it.

Because if one did, you'd find 99% of the answers to the questions asked here.

LE has not released a profile.

So there IS no profile?

All I was saying is I thought it was odd that there was no profile. It wasn't a question.

I'm not sure what questions you are referring to. You used my post to respond, but yet you haven't answered my question. What questions do you feel have already been addressed?

 

[KayCherry]

I rarely post, (don't necessarily feel I have anything to "add") so please excuse my amateur post.

I was thinking that locals living in the area, would be very aware of what goes on in the woods surrounding the trail. I also have thought about the "snowbird" house and lawn and could someone possibly have been staying there.

RL is very much on my mind as well. I just keep being re-directed back to him. He may know this person - or could he "be" this person? Initially I felt that way, then have gone back and forth thinking different things. Today, I am back to thinking of him.

 

[htiff]

I think that reviewing FACTS from early in the case, can be advantageous at times. This thread is confusing for new people because so many posts depart completely from any type of fact. Trying to figure out the fact from the fiction is a chore.

 

[Shiressleuth]

So there IS no profile?

All I was saying is I thought it was odd that there was no profile. It wasn't a question.

I'm not sure what questions you are referring to. You used my post to respond, but yet you haven't answered my question. What questions do you feel have already been addressed?

We don't know if LE have a profile and just not released it or whether they haven't got a profile yet at all. As usual minimum facts have been released. We are still not sure whether he had a vehicle and was seen walking to get in it or whether he was picked up or hitched a lift. Did any witnesses see him leaving ? We don't know. I personally think LE could give out some more info similar to these things without jeopardizing the investigation.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Below is a map of the streets around the portion of the Monon High Bridge Trail that are relevant to this case. The road that goes directly under the bridge appears to be public, N 625 W and intersects at W 200 N---W 200 N intersects with the Hoosier Heartland Highway.

(It's possible that as 625 nears the home that it leads to, as it goes under and past the Monon bridge, that this section is private--I couldn't tell from the map. But it looks like a public road.)

The houses in that vicinity on 300 and 550 are all very nice--multi-bedroom, expensive for the area. One thought that occurred to me as I traveled the area virtually by way of Google Maps is that, possibly (and this is highly speculative), the killer was actually back in this area checking for possible burglary opportunities, and happened on the girls. That's the area he's in--easy access to the rear of some of these nicer homes. And though he may not have planned on doing anything that day, it's the perfect way to scope out the terrain. Violent crime is low in Delphi, but personal property crime is in keeping with the national average.

RSBM
Do you have any facts or burglary statistics for Delphi that supports that speculation? Obviously not required for a theory so no worries if you haven't. Its a valid point anyway.