IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

[LaneGirl]

How do you suppose the sketch should be done hair wise when BG is wearing a hat in the original image that Libby got a shot of??? What if he's completely balded and or full haired and a wrong representation is put out there?? LE doesn't know and neither do we.... It sounds like you will have to accept that this is what it is....

So here in lies the problem for me...IF BG was wearing a hat when witness saw them they should describe the hat. If he wasn't wearing a hat they should describe and draw him without a hat and describe his hair.

The people that KNOW him will know what he looks like hat on hat off.

 

[kat913]

The person I suspect....his family thinks he's wonderful...maybe they have to really sit down and think aloud of the actual possibility which can be very shocking especially if he truly is an SK.

 

[kat913]

So here in lies the problem for me...IF BG was wearing a hat when witness saw them they should describe the hat. If he wasn't wearing a hat they should describe and draw him without a hat and describe his hair.

The people that KNOW him will know what he looks like hat on hat off.

I think that is why they are stressing...."look at his face"

 

[LaneGirl]

Maybe they should have done a few variations of the sketch..... bald, full hair etc


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

This is the issue I have...witness should describe him exactly as they saw him. If they saw him with a hat then draw it with a hat, if they saw him bald then release the sketch as a bald man.

Why put a golf hat on him and then say disregard the hat? Maybe it's just me but I don't understand it at all!

 

[kat913]

This is the issue I have...witness should describe him exactly as they saw him. If they saw him with a hat then draw it with a hat, if they saw him bald then release the sketch as a bald man.

Why put a golf hat on him and then say disregard the hat? Maybe it's just me but I don't understand it at all!

Maybe they already know who he is...and know he wears a hat....yet today he is bald (changed appearance)...doesn't do any good to leave out hair or the hat as an identifier.

My opinion only!!

 

[LaneGirl]

Maybe they already know who he is...and know he wears a hat....yet today he is bald (changed appearance)...doesn't do any good to leave out hair or the hat as an identifier.

My opinion only!!

You know that could be I'm ready to admit I'm wrong at any given minute. But again I can't think of a single sketch that LE has released from witness that said "disregard" x.

 

[kat913]

You know that could be I'm ready to admit I'm wrong at any given minute. But again I can't think of a single sketch that LE has released from witness that said "disregard" x.

I know that's why I think this one is different and backwards. I think they know...they just can't put it all together yet so by releasing this sketch they are hoping for all sorts of pieces to present themselves.

It's only my opinion!

 

[LaneGirl]

I know that's why I think this one is different and backwards. I think they know...they just can't put it all together yet so by releasing this sketch they are hoping for all sorts of pieces to present themselves.

It's only my opinion!

You maybe right and I hope they do know who it is and are just needing to match DNA.

 

[InMyOpinion999]

Wasn't there a bent tree pointing to the place where Abby and Libby were found? Could some of you help me find out if there was a bent tree pointing to the site where the Iowa girls were found also? I think I recall possibly seeing that but I'm not 100% certain and I'm having a hard time finding footage of the exact site where Lyric and Elizabeth were found in Iowa. I figured if anyone can help me with this, you guys can...

 

[kat913]

Wasn't there a bent tree pointing to the place where Abby and Libby were found? Could some of you help me find out if there was a bent tree pointing to the site where the Iowa girls were found also? I think I recall possibly seeing that but I'm not 100% certain and I'm having a hard time finding footage of the exact site where Lyric and Elizabeth were found in Iowa. I figured if anyone can help me with this, you guys can...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...l&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bf44da9c-4092-11e2-86a8-001a4bcf887a.html

These are 2 articles with views of the Iowa area that I have found helpful

 

[Deleted member 189081]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...l&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bf44da9c-4092-11e2-86a8-001a4bcf887a.html

These are 2 articles with views of the Iowa area that I have found helpful

Blimey, I can't get over how similar the area is to the Delphi Girls Thanks for posting.

KR
Reacher

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

I am unpopular in my opinion but I still believe (because of that stupid hat in the "witness" sketch)that police are going off of what some see in the video (LE etc) and not a real live witness. Meaning I'm not sure this is an accurate rendering.

I've polled my family members and each time I ask each of them to describe some person we just saw (gas station, waitress etc) they all start with the exception of 1 with the hair out of 7. Long dark hair, balding man etc., the family member that didn't start with the hair described it as his 3rd description.

I'm interested in you folks here....recall the last stranger you saw and describe them and see what you come up with. Something seems off and the fact that no-one has turned BG in makes me feels this all the more.

Police near me recently released a sketch of a man who dragged a woman from a path and into woods and attempted to rape her. http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2017...ct-attempted-sexual-assault-reston-woods/amp/

They later arrested a man for the attack, and, when I looked at his mugshot, I was surprised that the facial feature that seems most noticeable to me—his astoundingly thick eyebrows—was not reflected in the sketch. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...e9f2f0-8cb6-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html

All of that said, if only the woman (no eyewitnesses) provided details for the sketch, I completely understand how shock and fear and trauma could affect what she noticed and focused on.

It's a curious thing—eyewitness accounts, sketches, and all.

IMO


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[DarkSkink]

Police near me recently released a sketch of a man who dragged a woman from a path and into woods and attempted to rape her. http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2017...ct-attempted-sexual-assault-reston-woods/amp/

They later arrested a man for the attack, and, when I looked at his mugshot, I was surprised that the facial feature that seems most noticeable to me—his astoundingly thick eyebrows—was not reflected in the sketch. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...e9f2f0-8cb6-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html

All of that said, if only the woman (no eyewitnesses) provided details for the sketch, I completely understand how shock and fear and trauma could affect what she noticed and focused on.

It's a curious thing—eyewitness accounts, sketches, and all.

IMO


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Imagine the process of trying to describe features in detail so someone else can understand them enough to draw them.

Were the eyebrows curved? Where was the curve? Mid, inner edge or outer edge? Did they extend past the edges of the eyes? How high above the eyes were they? Were the brows pronounced or more even with the forehead?

Imagine the poor artist trying to draw something with limited detail. What do you put in there when you don't have good detail?

Sketches are more to highlight the major details so it resembles someone, likely in order to trigger other memories, or confirm other memories. "Hey, that sort of looks like my creepy coworker who also wears a red cap all the time, and that was the day he took an extra long time to do a delivery."

 

[Shiressleuth]

Police near me recently released a sketch of a man who dragged a woman from a path and into woods and attempted to rape her. http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2017...ct-attempted-sexual-assault-reston-woods/amp/

They later arrested a man for the attack, and, when I looked at his mugshot, I was surprised that the facial feature that seems most noticeable to me—his astoundingly thick eyebrows—was not reflected in the sketch. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...e9f2f0-8cb6-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html

All of that said, if only the woman (no eyewitnesses) provided details for the sketch, I completely understand how shock and fear and trauma could affect what she noticed and focused on.

It's a curious thing—eyewitness accounts, sketches, and all.

IMO


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You're right the sketch is lacking the dark complexion and blackness of the hair and thick eyebrows but again, the hat, this time covering a bald head. Not BG though right? And not a bad likeness/description from someone attacked from behind and terrorised.

While we seem to be slowing up with the leads in this case, I recommend the thread on here regarding the Baseball shooter involving the congress members. It is not a long thread but the details of the guy, remind me very much of the type of guy I envision BG to be. Full of hate and rage, even in his home life.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

You're right the sketch is lacking the dark complexion and blackness of the hair and thick eyebrows but again, the hat, this time covering a bald head. Not BG though right? And not a bad likeness/description from someone attacked from behind and terrorised.

While we seem to be slowing up with the leads in this case, I recommend the thread on here regarding the Baseball shooter involving the congress members. It is not a long thread but the details of the guy, remind me very much of the type of guy I envision BG to be. Full of hate and rage, even in his home life.

Imagine the process of trying to describe features in detail so someone else can understand them enough to draw them.

Were the eyebrows curved? Where was the curve? Mid, inner edge or outer edge? Did they extend past the edges of the eyes? How high above the eyes were they? Were the brows pronounced or more even with the forehead?

Imagine the poor artist trying to draw something with limited detail. What do you put in there when you don't have good detail?

Sketches are more to highlight the major details so it resembles someone, likely in order to trigger other memories, or confirm other memories. "Hey, that sort of looks like my creepy coworker who also wears a red cap all the time, and that was the day he took an extra long time to do a delivery."

To clarify, I was in no way knocking the victim's description of the assailant to the sketch artist or criticizing the sketch artist's skill or ability. I understand the purpose of sketches. I was simply commenting on what the mind notices and remembers. So many posts here have mulled the ears, nose, area between the brows, brow, eyes in BG's sketch, looking at the trees versus the forest.

I regret bringing it up. I'll lurk on.

 

[Yemelyan]

To clarify, I was in no way knocking the victim's description of the assailant to the sketch artist or criticizing the sketch artist's skill or ability. I understand the purpose of sketches. I was simply commenting on what the mind notices and remembers. So many posts here have mulled the ears, nose, area between the brows, brow, eyes in BG's sketch, looking at the trees versus the forest.

I regret bringing it up. I'll lurk on.

I understood your post perfectly and I am in agreement. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion!

I think the reason the sketch of BG shows a head covering is because he was wearing one in Libby's photo/video. LE doesn't know the status of his hairline IMO, and if his hairline is receding or he's mostly bald it can really alter his appearance. Could they have used a different type of hat? Of course but I think a hoodie, a baseball cap, or a cowboy hat would have obscured his face in the sketch even more and they want everyone to focus on his facial features. Therefore, a golf cap with a small brim was pictured. They never used the specific words "disregard" the hat, did they? I thought they just wanted to make sure everyone knows not to focus on that detail specifically because this individual could have been wearing a disguise that day, or clothing he didn't wear normally. He could have gotten rid of the cap (if it does resemble the one in the sketch) since then, now that he knows his image is out there. They don't want anyone who thinks they recognize the face to NOT call just because they've never seen him in a hat. Just MOO.

 

[gregjrichards]

A monster admitted his guilt and was sentenced today in the 1975 kidnap and murder of sisters Shelia and Katherine Lyon, aged 10 and 12. The Lyon family waited 42 years for this day. I hope and pray it does not take this long for the monster in Abigail and Liberty's case to be sentenced

 

[Yemelyan]

A monster admitted his guilt and was sentenced today in the 1975 kidnap and murder of sisters Shelia and Katherine Lyon, aged 10 and 12. The Lyon family waited 42 years for this day. I hope and pray it does not take this long for the monster in Abigail and Liberty's case to be sentenced

Thanks for posting this. I had never heard of this case before and I was intrigued since it also involved the abduction of two girls at once. I just read the Washington Post article about his sentencing. I find it very interesting that one unanswered question is who else was involved in that crime. It sounded as if LE believes there were accomplices, though admitting that they were now probably out of reach of justice. I still wonder whether there are two perpetrators in the murders of Abby and Libby.

 

[AlixVR]

I'm still keeping my eye on this one. I haven't been able to find much information on it, but there are a few similarities. This updated article says that it happened near mile marker 3. I don't know exactly where that is, but if you measure 3 miles northwest from Allen Road/Alta, where the trail officially becomes the Rock Island Trail (apparently managed by the state of Illinois rather than the city, which the "Rock Island Greenway" section to the southwest of Allen Road/Alta manages), you hit a spot near the Kickapoo Creek. And also near a railroad, complete with a viaduct/bridge. Of course there is nothing concrete to connect the cases, and I would guess assaults and attempted assaults are relatively common on isolated hiking trails as compared to other locations, but there are enough "coincidences" to keep it tucked away in my mind. It's a little far away, but not that far. I would hope the Indiana and Illinois law enforcement agencies have been in contact with each other about this. Time will tell.

http://www.week.com/story/35193432/student-grabbed-at-on-rock-island-trail-during-morning-run

 

[Shiressleuth]

To clarify, I was in no way knocking the victim's description of the assailant to the sketch artist or criticizing the sketch artist's skill or ability. I understand the purpose of sketches. I was simply commenting on what the mind notices and remembers. So many posts here have mulled the ears, nose, area between the brows, brow, eyes in BG's sketch, looking at the trees versus the forest.

I regret bringing it up. I'll lurk on.

I said you were right and it wasnt a bad likeness considering. When did I say you were knocking the victims description? There's nothing to regret about your post.