IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Shiressleuth]

I would like to see a graphical representation of this...

I think Gray Hughes mentions it in Derrick's path IIRC. It is also on the Beacon Schneider maps. It extends east from the SE end of the bridge then south for a long way. It is what was the old rail way track. I'll see if I can post a link.

Haven't been able to post a link but google Beacon Schneider Carroll County Indiana and the website is the top choice. Click on the map and you can zoom in and find the area and the Baptist Church along 200N. For those looking for IP you can do the same.

 

[annie970]

A number of people have been returning back to the trucker theory, which I think is most plausible right now, as well. Would explain what BG was doing in the area (Indiana Packers) but wouldn't be immediately recognizable as a local. Truckers are needed all across the country- after the murders, it wouldn't be difficult for him to quickly relocate and find work elsewhere.

If there are long pick up times, he could've taken a walk to the park.. if he worked for the plant he's probably visited the area before in his down time. Maybe he scouted the area and made note of the fact that kids liked to hang out there, and the bridge lead to an isolated area. On that day he was bored, angry, or both, brought his gun, and saw the girls walking. Don't think this was planned, I do really think he just saw it as a crime of opportunity. Options are limited on a bridge- you can only go one direction, and on that bridge you have to walk relatively slow.

Afterwards he could've removed his jacket and changed in his truck. I do think if it's a short enough walk he may not have been spotted, and having some blood on your clothes near a slaughterhouse might not stand out as much as in other places.

I just think more often than not these murders happen through circumstance, and are not solved because of the evasiveness of the murderer. I'm not at all trying to discredit anyones suggestions (nor am I convinced I am right!), but I do think meticulously calculated and well thought out murders, like the Zodiac, are extremely rare.

Could any one provide more information on the plant? What the roads around it are like? Where and how long trucks wait for pick up?

 

[WestieMom]

Really? You mean in the Delphi area?

Yes and surrounding. I live in Indianapolis and swear I see BG look a likes everywhere I go. [emoji20]


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[Boxer]

For lack of any more likely ideas (and not a lot of less likely ideas), I've decided for now that my thought on how he got away is fairly simple. He could have parked at the Baptist church on W200N. He could have taken what looks to be a trail from about 1500 ft. east of there to the south end of the bridge to get there, and then taken it back again when he was done. It doesn't appear to be well traveled since the official trail ends at the north end of the bridge, and it would probably have taken a while for anyone to check that area. I'm really lousy when it comes to anything connected to geography, but it looks to me like it would only be about a mile walk. He could have even dropped of a bag of clothes (at least a different jacket and hat) along the way in case someone did see him. Since the church isn't open on Mondays, there wouldn't be a lot of people t notice his vehicle there; if he was driving something that looked like a service truck, it probably wouldn't attract a lot of attention from passing cars either. MOO

I think that is an excellent observation. The trail on the old tracks is right there. And there is an unofficial dump at the back of one of the farms along the way.
My only reservation about parking in that particular lot is that churches can be unpredictable - being closed still could mean 25 people showing up to do something in the kitchen etc.
Still that parking place is actually perfect to walk to and from the trail undetected.

IMHO the mismatch between the crime in the efficient way he fled the scene that might help find him.
I mean that planning to park in a hidden area doesn't seem to match the boldness of the crime. Was he hoping to commit rape on the trail and it all went wrong. He thought there was one girl and then there were two girls, and then they fought for their lives? Did he kill them because they didn't follow direction? Then fled to his hidden car back down the track?
IMHO, sad as the families are - if the girls fought to prevent him from raping them and they paid for it with their lives, you have to admire them. Its brave and who they were. Strong and not going to bow down to a creep.

If this was a disorganized impulse crime why was he there, where did he go after?
IMHO he doesn't look homeless, so why was he there on the trail? He looks belongs at a bar, not a nature trail. His gun (assuming it s a gun) is weirdly holstered and not concealed - you can see the shape through his windbreaker. IMHO Most men (truckers too) opt for a traditional belt holster - not a gun banging against their stomach. And the gun looks like a cannon, meant for intimidation not just protection.

Maybe he was there for a drug deal, then his arranged business didn't go as planned, mad he then impulsively decided to lord over two girls who happened to be on the trail.
Since his original business was illegal he had taken precautions with his parking.
And the person that was supposed to meet him has not come forward.

 

[Hatfield]

Yes I would think looking at RSO's would be standard procedure when 2 young girls are murdered because it was more than likely the motivating factor. I do think going from a SO to a murderer is huge tho! I'm curious about prior arrests or is this someone who has gotten away with his crimes? Surely his first crimes weren't murdering two young innocent girls!

JMO
Thats what makes me think he is a "real" serial killer.
I think he may have started out as a sexual offender and decided he has to kill his victims to keep from getting caught. Then he began to get more of a thrill on the planning of the abduction and murder.

I dont think he has been caught much in the past 5 or 10 years. I think he has honed his skills to where he doesnt get caught. I also think he doesnt kill very often which has kept him from being caught. I think he plans well in advance for when he decides he is going to do his next abduction and murder. I think he is getting so much satisfaction from his planning that he doesnt kill very often. He could be in planning mode for a couple years or more.

Once he puts his planning and advanced surveilance into action mode I think he waits for everything to be perfect before he strikes and I suspect that he has abandoned attacks in the past because things were not perfect. Once he abandoned an attack he may have had to start from scratch to begin planning again.

I think past abandoned attacks may be a possible way he can be caught. Like if a girl saw him approaching her and another person showed up to where he abandoned his plan. She may have seen him approaching her for no reason and began to get very afraid and then he just stopped and walked the other way because another person showed up. She would know it was a close call and know that he acted very strange toward her. But she may not realize this is the guy being looked for in this case. Especially if it happened a few years back. Hopefully a past victim may put two and two together and make the connection for LE.

I also think when he first started out with just sexual assaults that he was probably busted only once or twice and that is what made him start killing any future victims so the victim could never ID him. So I do think he probably has a criminal record of at least 1 sexual assault but it may have been so long ago before DNA was collected as a common practice of LE. So if we look for past arrest records I would lean towards a crime that occurred about 10 years ago where a witness ID'd him as the sexual assaulter. I would search in states Indiana or Iowa. I would hope LE has photograph ability to scan past booking photos to try to match them to BG image and if they go back far enough they may get lucky to find his first and maybe only assault that he actually got caught for.

I think its very possible that BG is the same person that killed the two girls in Iowa.

 

[kkdj]

JMO
Thats what makes me think he is a "real" serial killer.
I think he may have started out as a sexual offender and decided he has to kill his victims to keep from getting caught. Then he began to get more of a thrill on the planning of the abduction and murder.

I dont think he has been caught much in the past 5 or 10 years. I think he has honed his skills to where he doesnt get caught. I also think he doesnt kill very often which has kept him from being caught. I think he plans well in advance for when he decides he is going to do his next abduction and murder. I think he is getting so much satisfaction from his planning that he doesnt kill very often. He could be in planning mode for a couple years or more.

Once he puts his planning and advanced surveilance into action mode I think he waits for everything to be perfect before he strikes and I suspect that he has abandoned attacks in the past because things were not perfect. Once he abandoned an attack he may have had to start from scratch to begin planning again.

I think past abandoned attacks may be a possible way he can be caught. Like if a girl saw him approaching her and another person showed up to where he abandoned his plan. She may have seen him approaching her for no reason and began to get very afraid and then he just stopped and walked the other way because another person showed up. She would know it was a close call and know that he acted very strange toward her. But she may not realize this is the guy being looked for in this case. Especially if it happened a few years back. Hopefully a past victim may put two and two together and make the connection for LE.

I also think when he first started out with just sexual assaults that he was probably busted only once or twice and that is what made him start killing any future victims so the victim could never ID him. So I do think he probably has a criminal record of at least 1 sexual assault but it may have been so long ago before DNA was collected as a common practice of LE. So if we look for past arrest records I would lean towards a crime that occurred about 10 years ago where a witness ID'd him as the sexual assaulter. I would search in states Indiana or Iowa. I would hope LE has photograph ability to scan past booking photos to try to match them to BG image and if they go back far enough they may get lucky to find his first and maybe only assault that he actually got caught for.

I think its very possible that BG is the same person that killed the two girls in Iowa.

:goodpost: I'm leaning towards this at this point. Methodical. Iowa, Indiana related. Not sure, but leaning towards it.

 

[TTF14]

Maybe, he has a wife who didn't have to do her cleaning job if the school had a day off?

Well that is very specific.

 

[mtnlites]

I told my hubby last night that I feel like everyone has red / brown near that area. Not everyone obviously, but a lot.


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When I was there for a funeral a few weeks ago, every other man that I saw in Delphi looked like BG. It's really weird.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yup. I'm pretty much going with school being out that day was part of his planning. So, did the kids (not necessarily A & L in particular) talk about hanging out there? When I was that age there was a particular park that was sort of a hang out. With that thought in mind, could this have been someone that worked at the school, helped out at the school, a parent.......someone who was in the know for hang out spots? Where else did this age group hang out where a worker could have been in the know for hang out spots? A pizza joint? An arcade?

IIRC there was a third teenager planning to go but didn't in the end . So there was some planning IMO. Were they also at the trail on the Friday snow day as well? If the whole area knew on Thursday that there were snow days on those two days - the Friday and the Monday- that's a lot of people who knew. Was it also in the local paper?

 

[heartgoesout]

third teenager?

 

[carbuff]

When I was there for a funeral a few weeks ago, every other man that I saw in Delphi looked like BG. It's really weird.

A quarter of the guys in New England look like him, and dress like that. [emoji848] But even on just three or four words, that does not sound like a New England accent.

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[mtnlites]

A quarter of the guys in New England look like him, and dress like that. [emoji848] But even on just three or four words, that does not sound like a New England accent.

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It doesn't sound New England to me, either. I still think it sounds Indiana/Illinois/Ohio/western Pennsylvania.

 

[gregjrichards]

The idea that he knew that school was out and was there at that time because of that information only works if he was targeting someone of that age range-and we don't know that he was. If he was just there looking for a victim, or at least a female victim, then it may not have mattered whether school was in or not, if not Abby/Libby then it might have been something else.

As far as the idea of kids of that age not being there after school in February...it happens. Gosh, my mom used to pick my cousin up straight from school and drop us off there at the park when we were younger because we also liked to walk around. And we did it in the colder months. We were kids, it didn't matter that we only had a couple of hours of daylight left. Or that it was cold. We'd go straight there just to dare each other to walk across the bridge.

I really appreciate your first hand accounts of the area and contribution here it is invaluable to get a local perspective. I’m sorry that a place filled with memories and carefree times for you and many others has been desecrated by what this monster decided to do that horrendous day.

 

[JnRyan]

I don't believe I've ever seen a case go for 70+ or even 60+ on here before. And still no resolution. The positive side to that, though, is like the 30K tips being called in. This is getting a LOT of press around the country. This ******* definitely should be looking everywhere when he steps out in public and also thinking that someone who knows him is starting to question where he was that day and what he was doing.

 

[mtnlites]

I really appreciate your first hand accounts of the area and contribution here it is invaluable to get a local perspective. I’m sorry that a place filled with memories and carefree times for you and many others has been desecrated by what this monster decided to do that horrendous day.

It really makes me sad. One time we had an hour before we had to be somewhere and my cousin and I begged my mom to take us to the park. She said, "You won't have time to walk around much" but we didn't care. We were kids. We ran all the way to the bridge, took silly pictures of ourselves, and then ran all the way back. Looking back, it was kind of silly. We easily could've waited until the next day, when it would've been more convenient. Or when we had better weather (it was cold and rainy that day). But we were kids and we wanted to do it RIGHT THEN. Lots of good memories there. :-(

 

[cluciano63]

I can’t see BG going up there for a drug deal. Most drug deals take seconds, quick exchanges in parking lots or vehicles, not rural remote locales on a weekday, Imo. He may have been stalking for a potential rape victim and the girls were the only females in sight. Maybe he hoped to come across a lone woman walking or jogging, i.e I do feel this was sexually driven and that LE knew that as soon as the girls were located.

 

[NJcares]

I can’t see BG going up there for a drug deal. Most drug deals take seconds, quick exchanges in parking lots or vehicles, not rural remote locales on a weekday, Imo. He may have been stalking for a potential rape victim and the girls were the only females in sight. Maybe he hoped to come across a lone woman walking or jogging, i.e I do feel this was sexually driven and that LE knew that as soon as the girls were located.

This. I think he probably was looking for a female victim. He ended up with 2 teens instead. He was prepared to subdue.

Locals: how frequent do single females go hiking or trail running in that region?


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[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

JMO...

I don’t think BG lives in Delphi. I think he either lives 30+ minutes away, or is someone who grew up in Delphi/spent time visiting there so he knows the area, or has a reason to be in/near/passing through Delphi for business/traveling/recreation or he’s an Israel Keyes type SK. I could be way off base, but I don’t think he lives there.

JMO.

 

[mtnlites]

I can’t see BG going up there for a drug deal. Most drug deals take seconds, quick exchanges in parking lots or vehicles, not rural remote locales on a weekday, Imo. (snipped) .

This is true. One of the biggest problems rural areas are facing at the moment is drug abuse and how public that abuse is. In my small town, the most popular place to buy or sell is the parking lot between the McDonald's and Price Less Foods. (I am a chronic pain patient and each month my doctor would give me a refill and say, "Please don't let me see you selling them in the parking lot." It wasn't a secret.) It's not all about clandestine meetings under the cover of darkness anymore. Here, people are shooting up in the Save a Lot bathroom. Delphi isn't any different. The brazenness is downright staggering. BG may very well have been tripping on something, but I don't think he was up there to score. In and out, that's the way those deals like to go down.

Some people have mentioned portable meth labs. It could go either way with that. They tend to be a little more further out, though. Even with a portable lab, you're talking a cooking and setup time of about an hour. That's a long time to risk someone coming upon you.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Well that is very specific.

Cleaning job at school - i forgot to write, sorry. Only a thought, a possibility. Nobody in mind.