IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[kkdj]

No I don't. I am not entirely convinced that LE has Libby's phone. It goes back to whether she had the phone largely silent so it doesn't "ding" when a message comes in or a notification shows up and so on. With the people out there searching you think there was a more than reasonable chance of hearing it - unless it was under water. Many things are possible but I think it would be difficult for Libby to get rid of the phone easily once BG was with them. It seems more likely to me that if the phone was recovered that it was BG that discarded it and not LIbby. Libby's only real opportunity would have been to dump the phone near the south end of the bridge and that would mean that there wouldn't be much more after "down the hill".

Hmmmmm.....maybe BG wanted others to hear the assault. Have we ever explored that?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm pretty sure LE said the SC pic of Abbey was the last communication from the girls so I don't believe there was anything like chatting or more pics from them after that except the girls talking about stuff "girls talk about" and then spotting BG approaching and talking about him and then the video of him followed by the abduction and DTH. I think it all happened very quickly and that is partly why LE were so stunned by the crime. I definitely believe they have the phone as it was found "in the general area".
:cow:

 

[kkdj]

I'm pretty sure LE said the SC pic of Abbey was the last communication from the girls so I don't believe there was anything like chatting or more pics from them after that except the girls talking about stuff "girls talk about" and then spotting BG approaching and talking about him and then the video of him followed by the abduction and DTH. I think it all happened very quickly and that is partly why LE were so stunned by the crime. I definitely believe they have the phone as it was found "in the general area".
:cow:

I think they have the phone too. What a huge error for BG imo. But one must wonder if he knew it was left there. kwim?

 

[Confusion]

I think one of two things may have happened. Either BG was already gone before DG tried calling Libby, or he grabbed the phone and broke it when DG called and then took off (possibly killing them quickly first if he hadn't already.) MOO

 

[wdmcmahan]

A couple of thoughts this morning. When this crime first happened, my mind immediately went to Taylor Plackard and Skyla Whitaker. I wonder if BG knew of that crime. I wonder, when he is caught, if he will try using the same type of defense as Taylor and Skyla's murderer...

Also regarding Libby's phone and the video. I've wondered for awhile now what would have happened when the girls first became aware of BG and were scared or uncomfortable or whatever those first emotions were, if they would have called someone with the phone instead of videoing. Would that have deterred BG? There's no way to know that answer, but I'm curious of opinions.

If they had called someone and stayed on the line, then if anything happened at least someone would have immediately known what was happening, but then there would be no video or voice recording of BG.

I always wonder about these types of things about crimes, what little changes could have been made to alter the outcome. I have adult children, barely out of their teens. What advice would you give your children in a situation like this... Call someone or record video?

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[mtnlites]

A couple of thoughts this morning. When this crime first happened, my mind immediately went to Taylor Plackard and Skyla Whitaker. I wonder if BG knew of that crime. I wonder, when he is caught, if he will try using the same type of defense as Taylor and Skyla's murderer...

Also regarding Libby's phone and the video. I've wondered for awhile now what would have happened when the girls first became aware of BG and were scared or uncomfortable or whatever those first emotions were, if they would have called someone with the phone instead of videoing. Would that have deterred BG? There's no way to know that answer, but I'm curious of opinions.

If they had called someone and stayed on the line, then if anything happened at least someone would have immediately known what was happening, but then there would be no video or voice recording of BG.

I always wonder about these types of things about crimes, what little changes could have been made to alter the outcome. I have adult children, barely out of their teens. What advice would you give your children in a situation like this... Call someone or record video?

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We have no way of knowing whether or not they had a signal at that moment. Signals come and go in that park and on that bridge. Libby may very well have tried to call someone. I don't the girls could have done anything differently. In fact, I think they went above and beyond what many victims do-they tried to capture him on video for evidence (even before they probably realized just how nefarious his intentions truly were) and they stuck together. Perhaps if they'd been able to get a call to go through, or if they'd pretended to be on a call, the outcome would've been different but we don't know that and I really don't want to imply that they did anything wrong because I don't think they did. We also don't know what events led up to the videotaping, or even if Libby meant to be recording BG. Perhaps she didn't feel threatened enough to make a call.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I could never figure out why they were recording their own conversation but now I'm wondering if they were still on Snapchat when they were talking "girl talk".

 

[mtnlites]

I could never figure out why they were recording their own conversation but now I'm wondering if they were still on Snapchat when they were talking "girl talk".

In this You Tube generation, I am finding that lots of kids, including my own, videotape mundane things. My son walks around the house with his videorecorder on, filming random stuff and talking about his day. It's possible they were filming their walk through the woods, filming each other being silly, etc. It's just as possible that they didn't know the recorder was on at all. We have lots of "butt videos". (Videos that contain nothing other than our muffled voices and the fabric of our back pockets.It's quite easy to accidentally hit the "record" button.)

 

[newredtabby]

No I don't. I am not entirely convinced that LE has Libby's phone. It goes back to whether she had the phone largely silent so it doesn't "ding" when a message comes in or a notification shows up and so on. With the people out there searching you think there was a more than reasonable chance of hearing it - unless it was under water. Many things are possible but I think it would be difficult for Libby to get rid of the phone easily once BG was with them. It seems more likely to me that if the phone was recovered that it was BG that discarded it and not LIbby. Libby's only real opportunity would have been to dump the phone near the south end of the bridge and that would mean that there wouldn't be much more after "down the hill".

It's well documented that LE has her phone. LE have said it was recovered in the vicinity of the girls bodies.


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[carbuff]

Do you have a theory on how her phone was left behind?

I think that when BG went to take it from her, she threw it as far as she could toward where he couldn't reach it. And since she was athletic, that could have been pretty far.

 

[Falling Down]

I think one of two things may have happened. Either BG was already gone before DG tried calling Libby, or he grabbed the phone and broke it when DG called and then took off (possibly killing them quickly first if he hadn't already.) MOO

The timeline I'm working with is they were deceased by 2:45, maybe even earlier. At approximately 3PM there were people using the trails, on or about to be on the bridge, etc. Mind boggling to me how tight the time frame is.

MOO

 

[Try2solve]

We have no way of knowing whether or not they had a signal at that moment. Signals come and go in that park and on that bridge. Libby may very well have tried to call someone. I don't the girls could have done anything differently. In fact, I think they went above and beyond what many victims do-they tried to capture him on video for evidence (even before they probably realized just how nefarious his intentions truly were) and they stuck together. Perhaps if they'd been able to get a call to go through, or if they'd pretended to be on a call, the outcome would've been different but we don't know that and I really don't want to imply that they did anything wrong because I don't think they did. We also don't know what events led up to the videotaping, or even if Libby meant to be recording BG. Perhaps she didn't feel threatened enough to make a call.

I agree Liberty most probably didn't feel threatened. Let's remember at that time, there were 3 grown men living in the same house with her. She was athletic and confident. MP said she would've put up a fight. Liberty was no wall flower. Let's also remember it was broad daylight in a popular area/hangout. BG got the upper hand because he probably knew they wouldn't expect a sudden vicious assault. Ironically, because Liberty was calm, that's how she was able to get the video. We've got your pic, BG. Tick Tock!

 

[ocgrad]

I could never figure out why they were recording their own conversation but now I'm wondering if they were still on Snapchat when they were talking "girl talk".

I don't know much about the Snapchat app, but I believe it can only record a few seconds of video and only if you hold your finger on the record button. Then if it isn't uploaded, I'm not sure it stays. Maybe someone can answer that. And I don't think the BG and DTH were ever uploaded. So I'm not sure how LE would have been able to recover it so quickly if it weren't available either on her phone through her built in camera recorder or backed up in the cloud (which I don't think happens with Snapchat automatically). And in the scanner thread it seems evident they had the image on the 14th although perhaps they had a witness description. Bottomline I believe if they have more than a few seconds of recording it was taken on her camera not on Snapchat.

 

[Satchie]

I agree Liberty most probably didn't feel threatened. Let's remember at that time, there were 3 grown men living in the same house with her. She was athletic and confident. MP said she would've put up a fight. Liberty was no wall flower. Let's also remember it was broad daylight in a popular area/hangout. BG got the upper hand because he probably knew they wouldn't expect a sudden vicious assault. Ironically, because Liberty was calm, that's how she was able to get the video. We've got your pic, BG. Tick Tock!

Even if I was in an area I considered dangerous, and was on high alert (which would be in a city, not on a trail), I wouldn't call 911 just because a man walked towards me! And if someone creepy is approaching, your instinct is to keep your wits about you, not be distracted, or appear distracted, by making a phone call.

I think if someone's concerned about their kids, or anyone else's safety, coming out of this and all the other reports of bad things that can happen, the best thing is to role play different scenarios, and discover for yourselves what might be some things to do. That's why we have firedrills, first aid training, even war games to cite an extreme example.i

 

[Justice101]

I think that when BG went to take it from her, she threw it as far as she could toward where he couldn't reach it. And since she was athletic, that could have been pretty far.

The other possibility is she (purposely) dropped it as they were going thru the woods knowing she had recorded him. When she was told to hand it over, she showed it was lost. That could have sent the killer into a rage.

 

[Justice101]

Off the wall question:

What new information could LE tell us now.... that would help solve the case... yet preserve crucial evidence for future prosecution?

 

[TheVisual]

Off the wall question:

What new information could LE tell us now.... that would help solve the case... yet preserve crucial evidence for future prosecution?

A profile.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Off the wall question:

What new information could LE tell us now.... that would help solve the case... yet preserve crucial evidence for future prosecution?

I'd like to know the time of death. We've gone so many rounds as to whether the girls were taken away/brought back or if the crime happened at the spot they were found.

I'm not 100% buying their "preserving the integrity of the case" argument.

Now my question: Is anyone of the opinion that people have seen the autopsy report while it was still public record? It wasn't sealed until on or around March 28.

 

[Ember123]

I think that when BG went to take it from her, she threw it as far as she could toward where he couldn't reach it. And since she was athletic, that could have been pretty far.

Go Liberty!

 

[Hazelnutty]

Let today be the day !
Abby & Libby [emoji173][emoji173]

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