IN - Four sisters, ages 5-11, die in Flora house fire, Nov 2016

[Charlot123]

Fire that killed 4 Flora sisters 5 years ago remains unsolved | wthr.com

from the article:

“There was no type of beef, no retaliation against me and my family,” said Rose. “No one disliked us like that. We didn't have no beef. Everyone loved us just as well as we loved them. So once again, I'm lost. To be honest, I feel like it was more racial."

So now that these words are said, I feel that someone from CC police has to find the time, get on the plane, fly to California and talk with the mother. Cases are not solved when nothing is done.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Indiana State Police respond to calls for action and answers in Flora fire case | wthr.com
May 23, 2019

Supt. Carter said investigators traveled to Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio and California to track down leads in the arson case.

Supt. Carter said the investigation was stymied in part by a lack of cooperation. He said Gaylin spoke with investigators after the fire, but has not answered extensive questions about who frequented her home.

"It's very important that we understand who's been at the house, who had been at the house, what those dynamics were and people who did visit the home. And right now we don't know what those answers are," revealed Supt. Carter.

 

[Boxer]

These girls lived kitty corner from the drug dealing daughter molesting Pizza King.
A meeting place for creeps.

 

[JnRyan]

OK, now that I've found the Flora Fire case I can post it here that the "True Crime Garage" did a recent podcast (23 Nov 2021) on this case. I have to admit I did not realize how convoluted this case really is. When I did watch the one press conference I saw on this case, ISP Superintendent Carter just dumped on the family and basically blamed the family for the crime not being solved. Then I listen to the TCG podcast and start reading up and I lose some respect for ISP Superintendent Carter.

 

[Boxer]

OK, now that I've found the Flora Fire case I can post it here that the "True Crime Garage" did a recent podcast (23 Nov 2021) on this case. I have to admit I did not realize how convoluted this case really is. When I did watch the one press conference I saw on this case, ISP Superintendent Carter just dumped on the family and basically blamed the family for the crime not being solved. Then I listen to the TCG podcast and start reading up and I lose some respect for ISP Superintendent Carter.

I agree.
Her landlord's violent wife beating son lived right next door.
The Pizza King's owner was scamming on young teen girls and molesting his own daughter, as well as selling drugs, probably right from the Pizza parlor.
The mother of these girls sewed their cheerleading costumes for heaven sake, she was so into them and their happiness.
Shame on ISP for going down the well trodden path of unequal treatment.

Also Abby and Libby went to Pizza King in Flora for at least one team Pizza party.
MOO there is a possible nexus there.

 

[TL4S]

I agree.
Her landlord's violent wife beating son lived right next door.
The Pizza King's owner was scamming on young teen girls and molesting his own daughter, as well as selling drugs, probably right from the Pizza parlor.
The mother of these girls sewed their cheerleading costumes for heaven sake, she was so into them and their happiness.
Shame on ISP for going down the well trodden path of unequal treatment.

Also Abby and Libby went to Pizza King in Flora for at least one team Pizza party.
MOO there is a possible nexus there.

Wow, I hadn't considered until your post that maybe there's a connection been MS (Pizza King) and KK (anthony-shots). Both into juvenile girls...

 

[MistyWaters]

Wow, I hadn't considered until your post that maybe there's a connection been MS (Pizza King) and KK (anthony-shots). Both into juvenile girls...

What is the connection between SA/catfishing and the Flora fire? I don’t recall reading anything about sexual molestation, iirc the mother believed the motive for the fire was racial.

 

[TL4S]

What is the connection between SA/catfishing and the Flora fire?

Yeah, personally, I don't think there is one. I have a couple theories of my own, neither of which involve SA/catfishing/MS/KK, etc. But if there was one, MS and KK could potentially be linked by their common interests and proximity.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm doubtful of an MS connection. The prosecutor and the judge agreed to drop the F1 charges:

Case #08C01-1908-F1-000003
01. 35-42-4-3(a)/F1: Child Molesting where def. is at least 21 years of age
• Dismissed with Prejudice
02. 35-42-4-3(b)/F4: Child Molesting-Fondling or touching with child under 14
• Dismissed with Prejudice
03. 35-42-4-3(b)/F4: Child Molesting-Fondling or touching with child under 14
• Dismissed with Prejudice

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah, personally, I don't think there is one. I have a couple theories of my own, neither of which involve SA/catfishing/MS/KK, etc. But if there was one, MS and KK could potentially be linked by their common interests and proximity.

I don’t think so either as the mother has never vaguely insinuated that she believed any of her daughters had been subjected to SA. Burning a house down to ensure the girls couldn’t talk about SA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because it seems to have only been the tragic outcome for the girls to have all perished in the fire, otherwise the fire would’ve drawn medical attention had they survived.

I doubt this tragic Flora arson is connected to the Delphi murders although the sort of degenerate who knowingly risked the lives of the mother and daughters sleeping inside that home certainly deserves to face the consequences.

 

[TL4S]

I don’t think so either as the mother has never vaguely insinuated that she believed any of her daughters had been subjected to SA. Burning a house down to ensure the girls couldn’t talk about SA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because it seems to have only been the tragic outcome for the girls to have all perished in the fire, otherwise the fire would’ve drawn medical attention had they survived.

I doubt this tragic Flora arson is connected to the Delphi murders although the sort of degenerate who knowingly risked the lives of the mother and daughters sleeping inside that home certainly deserves to face the consequences.

In fact, I believe it was Carter who said LE did not believe the girls' deaths were intentional.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think this has not been posted yet. February 2018
New leads in connection with fatal Flora fire

Feb 9, 2018 This is where Carter says

"Over time people are starting to talk to us about that place, about that home, about that area around that home," said Carter.

He says investigators are now aware of "some of the activities in and around that residence in the days, weeks and months leading up to the fire."

I take that to mean drug activity. If that's the case, then a couple of things come to mind. Maybe whoever set the fire thought the mom and girls were going to be gone for Thanksgiving. Or it was intended to be just a small fire as a warning to someone else?

The fact that Flora LE didn't know about any activity in that area puzzles me. It's a town of about 2,000 people and it's been my experience that small town cops usually know who to watch.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Feb 9, 2018 This is where Carter says


I take that to mean drug activity. If that's the case, then a couple of things come to mind. Maybe whoever set the fire thought the mom and girls were going to be gone for Thanksgiving. Or it was intended to be just a small fire as a warning to someone else?

The fact that Flora LE didn't know about any activity in that area puzzles me. It's a town of about 2,000 people and it's been my experience that small town cops usually know who to watch.

MOO

Sorry, to isolate any particular house in Carroll County as the hub for drug activity sounds almost funny, and DC needs to try a better explanation. There are many reasons for arson. The first that comes to mind, someone wanted the family to move away. Also, four young, athletic, girls, could attract pedophiles, sure. Or maybe someone started with arson and progressed to plain murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

In fact, I believe it was Carter who said LE did not believe the girls' deaths were intentional.

Whoever the arsonist was wouldn’t have known whether the home was equipped with smoke detectors or not. Had there been, according to this lawsuit no deaths would’ve occurred.

“According to that lawsuit, Ayers, Helderman and Birch Tree Holdings, LLC failed "to provide a safe and habitable property." and "acted with gross negligence."

At the core of the complaint are allegations that the landlords failed to install, replace or repair smoke detectors as required by Indiana Code 22-11-18-3.5, which requires landlords and property owners to provide working smoke detectors.

The lawsuit claims, "As a result of the failure to equip the Property with any functioning smoke detectors, Rose's four minor children ...died from smoke inhalation."…”
Product liability lawsuit dismissed in Flora fire case | wthr.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

In Indiana it is the landlord's responsibility to provide working smoke detectors installed in the way required by law. A signed sd addendum is required upon entering into the lease. A smart landlord will do a walk-through, including testing of the sd, upon the tenant moving in and have them sign that, too.

After that, it's the tenant's responsibility to check/replace the batteries. If it's broken, they need to notify the ll in writing.

LL has a limited liability company so he should be smart enough to know how to avoid law suits for things as simple as smoke detectors. I'm curious if her case has been settled yet.

 

[MistyWaters]

In Indiana it is the landlord's responsibility to provide working smoke detectors installed in the way required by law. A signed sd addendum is required upon entering into the lease. A smart landlord will do a walk-through, including testing of the sd, upon the tenant moving in and have them sign that, too.

After that, it's the tenant's responsibility to check/replace the batteries. If it's broken, they need to notify the ll in writing.

LL has a limited liability company so he should be smart enough to know how to avoid law suits for things as simple as smoke detectors. I'm curious if her case has been settled yet.

That’s interesting, I’m curious if it’s ever been settled as well.

Just my thoughts, if someone is ever to be charged it would only be for arson, not murder, because her attorneys have totally shifted the blame for the deaths of the girls on the landlord’s negligence/lack of the smoke detectors.

“The lawsuit claims, "As a result of the failure to equip the Property with any functioning smoke detectors, Rose's four minor children ...died from smoke inhalation."

Rose, who faced questions herself about the fire said her landlords' negligence is to blame for the death of her girls. She also said she raised questions about malfunctioning electrical outlets in the kitchen and a non-locking back door. Efforts to repair the outlets and a leaky kitchen ceiling two weeks before the fire were reportedly unsuccessful, according to Rose.”
Product liability lawsuit dismissed in Flora fire case | wthr.com

 

[MimosaMornings]

So was the fault of the fire determined to be a faulty outlet?

Was this house constructed to be apartments or a single family dwelling “modified” into apartments?

 

[MistyWaters]

So was the fault of the fire determined to be a faulty outlet?

Was this house constructed to be apartments or a single family dwelling “modified” into apartments?

No, there was some uncertainty of the cause at the onset but eventually arson was officially ruled to have been the cause.

 

[LeBlack]

No, there was some uncertainty of the cause at the onset but eventually arson was officially ruled to have been the cause.

It would be 4 cases of 2nd degree murder?

Arson can carry a pretty heavy sentence.

 

[MistyWaters]

It would be 4 cases of 2nd degree murder?

Arson can carry a pretty heavy sentence.

Yes arson can carry a heavy sentence. I’m not sure if it’d be considered 2nd degree murder, if this case is ever solved I’d think it depends on if it can be proven the arsonist knew the family was inside of the home and so causing the deaths was done deliberately. Manslaughter charges are usually absent of any intent.