IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[mickey2942]

I believe it was a “scare Chloe” game too.

Why do people do that? Usually men. And children are completely at their mercy. Unless someone intervenes. Should someone have stepped up, and told SA that he was behaving badly?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Why do people do that? Usually men. And children are completely at their mercy. Unless someone intervenes. Should someone have stepped up, and told SA that he was behaving badly?

As well as corrected the way he seemed to hold Chloe so awkwardly and unsafely. IMHO this child was failed by multiple people.

 

[oviedo]

Why do people do that? Usually men. And children are completely at their mercy. Unless someone intervenes. Should someone have stepped up, and told SA that he was behaving badly?

I think we may find that there are witnesses who perhaps did try to intervene - just not soon enough IMO

 

[Montrealaise]

I wonder whether SA's criminal defense lawyer is trying to negotiate a plea deal. The next court appearance is on December 17 when the judge will set a trial date (unless there is a plea bargain) and SA will choose either a jury trial or a trial by judge alone.

 

[book-thinker]

That’s cheating
I’ll be there measuring, writing and pacing out the area so I can tell you if security uses body cams when they come and drag me away kicking and screaming.

Yes I can hardly be on the deck 12 for the sail away party - I’ve lost hats it’s so windy in port !

they’ll get you and oviedo
Thank you for being our eyes and ears!
A simple request before the ship leaves port.
Is it possible to check the wind factor?
It had winds of 12.5 the day Chloe fell.
If the winds are close to 12.5, please let us know how the breeze feels ( please be careful and don’t get too close to a open window). Enjoy you cruise!

The last time I was on a sailboat
(The owner’s prized new sailboat )
Having lunch shortly before sailing a major mistake on my part! I ended up getting sick over side the of his beautiful sail boat . It’s a wonder he didn’t throw me over side.

 

[oviedo]

they’ll get you and oviedo
Thank you for being our eyes and ears!
A simple request before the ship leaves port.
Is it possible to check the wind factor?
It had winds of 12.5 the day Chloe fell.
If the winds are close to 12.5, please let us know how the breeze feels ( please be careful and don’t get too close to a open window). Enjoy you cruise!

The last time I was on a sailboat
(The owner’s prized new sailboat )
Having lunch shortly before sailing a major mistake on my part! I ended up getting sick over side the of his beautiful sail boat . It’s a wonder he didn’t throw me over side.

Is there an app for wind speed ? If so I will measure it but I’m not leaving out of PR so it’s not scientific

 

[book-thinker]

Is there an app for wind speed ? If so I will measure it but I’m not leaving out of PR so it’s not scientific

Yes Windy.com app
doesn’t need to be scientific just a general idea; thanks again

 

[sl222]

Have they abandoned the "bang on the glass" scenario? Not sure, but here someone raises a thoughtful point:

"They keep defending the grandfather by equating this to the little girl's enjoyment of banging on the hockey glass at her brother's games. Can you imagine how that makes the brother feel? He's only 10, only a few years older than 7 when most kids start to lose their egocentric thinking that everything in the world happens for and because of them. (Some people never outgrow that, but that's another topic.) Everytime he hears about the hockey glass, he probably feels guilt about playing hockey. Do you think he'll ever enjoy playing that again? In the Today Show interview, the mom said her son is torn up, feeling guilty about not being there when she fell, because if he had been, he would have jumped out the window to catch her. Totally irrational thought, but that's normal for young kids. Everything is internalized. "

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I feel so sad for the brother and the parents' pain in seeing him go through this. Prayers for the whole family.

 

[MsFacetious]

I've been on numerous cruises, and it would be news to me if security personnel wear body cams

Okay I thought it odd but I thought it may be for their own protection like uber drivers. I knew you’d know.

Why do people do that? Usually men. And children are completely at their mercy. Unless someone intervenes. Should someone have stepped up, and told SA that he was behaving badly?

Yes and we’ve discussed how we would have intervened, but how afraid we’d be of causing him to drop her. Like if you walked into a room to find a toddler with a gun. You’d not want to startle the child. There was so little time to react before Chloe fell I don’t think anyone had a chance.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder whether SA's criminal defense lawyer is trying to negotiate a plea deal. The next court appearance is on December 17 when the judge will set a trial date (unless there is a plea bargain) and SA will choose either a jury trial or a trial by judge alone.

I hope so. If the judge requires the grandpa to tell the truth, admit responsibility and beg for mercy, I will be fine with a Guilty verdict and a suspended sentence and a hefty fine. And they drop the lawsuit...

 

[katydid23]

Have they abandoned the "bang on the glass" scenario? Not sure, but here someone raises a thoughtful point:

"They keep defending the grandfather by equating this to the little girl's enjoyment of banging on the hockey glass at her brother's games. Can you imagine how that makes the brother feel? He's only 10, only a few years older than 7 when most kids start to lose their egocentric thinking that everything in the world happens for and because of them. (Some people never outgrow that, but that's another topic.) Everytime he hears about the hockey glass, he probably feels guilt about playing hockey. Do you think he'll ever enjoy playing that again? In the Today Show interview, the mom said her son is torn up, feeling guilty about not being there when she fell, because if he had been, he would have jumped out the window to catch her. Totally irrational thought, but that's normal for young kids. Everything is internalized. "

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I feel so sad for the brother and the parents' pain in seeing him go through this. Prayers for the whole family.

I know... I feel so badly for him too. I know of a family who accidentally backed up over their 18 month old girl, and she died. Her 10 yr old brother had such emotional pain for years. Although he was in the house when it happened, he felt guilty and became so depressed.

My love and prayers go out to this boy because he will need a lot of support and therapy to get through this tragedy.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I hope so. If the judge requires the grandpa to tell the truth, admit responsibility and beg for mercy, I will be fine with a Guilty verdict and a suspended sentence and a hefty fine. And they drop the lawsuit...

PR jails are very nice this time of year.

 

[fabvab]

That’s cheating
I’ll be there measuring, writing and pacing out the area so I can tell you if security uses body cams when they come and drag me away kicking and screaming.

Maybe you could add your own body cam to your arsenal of ship sleuthing tools! The cam would give us a view of what Chloe saw as she placed on the rail. I suppose a phone video would do the same.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think we may find that there are witnesses who perhaps did try to intervene - just not soon enough IMO

SA is probably the type of person who would tell others to mind their own business - or give them the middle finger

 

[SassynOz]

I would guess Grandmom is younger... so probably still working. Women in their 50's can take care of themselves... many do not need a man to do it

Thank you! This thread makes me think to much. My husband will be the same age as this grandpa next week. I’m not far behind. But no way do I feel that age honestly I feel and think more that I’m like 35. I’m always Getting depressed when I think about the reality. We have no issues with bending or stooping etc.

While we are grandparents we have 3 adult kids and our youngest is still a minor. Plus we have custody of our youngest grandson. He’s actually been in our full time care since he was 14 months. For all legal purposes we are basically his parents. He’s 4 1/2 now and he is the most hyper high energy kid we’ve ever known. Age really has little to do with raising a child, we are doing a darn good job imo. On the other hand if he were still in in the care of his mom my late 20’s daughter. This child wouldn’t even of seen age 2. It’s more about common sense. Right from wrong etc. if we were to ever go on such a trip with my daughter his mom in tow . I would never leave him unsupervised with her. She has no common sense when it comes to caring for a child. She’s never around this one to even know how to honestly. If this scenario were to happen to us , I wouldn’t even blame his mother or the place we were. It would be fully my own fault for leaving him unsupervised with someone who is very careless and irresponsible. I could totally see her doing something Insane like this.
I don’t know if the grandpa in this case was just careless or lacking common sense , stupid. Or if it was truly a accident and he normally wasn’t careless with Chloe. What we are seeing doesn’t look good. But we don’t know if there was something else going on we aren’t seeing from this POV or if it was totally out of character.

But if he was a someone who often made bad choices and did careless stuff with her , then imo the parents or in our case guardians aren’t exactly innocent. You have to take some responsibility on the character of the person you are leaving your child with. In our case our little guy would be 100 % safer with his 51 year old grandpa or 40 something grandma , then with the now 28 year old woman who actually gave birth to him.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Thank you! This thread makes me think to much. My husband will be the same age as this grandpa next week. I’m not far behind. But no way do I feel that age honestly I feel and think more that I’m like 35. I’m always Getting depressed when I think about the reality. We have no issues with bending or stooping etc.

While we are grandparents we have 3 adult kids and our youngest is still a minor. Plus we have custody of our youngest grandson. He’s actually been in our full time care since he was 14 months. For all legal purposes we are basically his parents. He’s 4 1/2 now and he is the most hyper high energy kid we’ve ever known. Age really has little to do with raising a child, we are doing a darn good job imo. On the other hand if he were still in in the care of his mom my late 20’s daughter. This child wouldn’t even of seen age 2. It’s more about common sense. Right from wrong etc. if we were to ever go on such a trip with my daughter his mom in tow . I would never leave him unsupervised with her. She has no common sense when it comes to caring for a child. She’s never around this one to even know how to honestly. If this scenario were to happen to us , I wouldn’t even blame his mother or the place we were. It would be fully my own fault for leaving him unsupervised with someone who is very careless and irresponsible. I could totally see her doing something Insane like this.
I don’t know if the grandpa in this case was just careless or lacking common sense , stupid. Or if it was truly a accident and he normally wasn’t careless with Chloe. What we are seeing doesn’t look good. But we don’t know if there was something else going on we aren’t seeing from this POV or if it was totally out of character.

But if he was a someone who often made bad choices and did careless stuff with her , then imo the parents or in our case guardians aren’t exactly innocent. You have to take some responsibility on the character of the person you are leaving your child with. In our case our little guy would be 100 % safer with his 51 year old grandpa or 40 something grandma , then with the now 28 year old woman who actually gave birth to him.

I liked your post.
▪︎I would add that health is a variable thing. I've seen younger people than myself with worse health, but I've seen some older people than me with better health.
▪︎But I absolutely agree that an older person has the potential to be a better guardian than a younger person. It happens all the time.
▪︎The possibility of gpa being generally lax in babysitting skills could be true.
▪︎I'm reading an online article called, 'Stupid decisions that can ruin your whole life in a second' to help me understand what could possibly have happened.
▪︎And I've read a paramedic's comment, on page 1 of the Freedom of the Seas article above, who says he sees life altering bad decisions daily. Unfortunately, its not as rare as we think. Although bad decisions with children, is so much worse and do fall under negligent laws.
I guess it will be up to the PR court as to if he will 'pay ' for his bad decision.

 

[Montrealaise]

Have they abandoned the "bang on the glass" scenario? Not sure, but here someone raises a thoughtful point:

"They keep defending the grandfather by equating this to the little girl's enjoyment of banging on the hockey glass at her brother's games. Can you imagine how that makes the brother feel? He's only 10, only a few years older than 7 when most kids start to lose their egocentric thinking that everything in the world happens for and because of them. (Some people never outgrow that, but that's another topic.) Everytime he hears about the hockey glass, he probably feels guilt about playing hockey. Do you think he'll ever enjoy playing that again? In the Today Show interview, the mom said her son is torn up, feeling guilty about not being there when she fell, because if he had been, he would have jumped out the window to catch her. Totally irrational thought, but that's normal for young kids. Everything is internalized. "

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I feel so sad for the brother and the parents' pain in seeing him go through this. Prayers for the whole family.

From my understanding, the boy is from AW's previous relationship, so KW would be his step-mom rather than his mom. I don't know whether AW has full custody or shared custody - or maybe the mom has custody and he has access rights, including the right to take the boy on vacation with his new family. Since the atmosphere at the Wiegland home must be very tense and sad, the boy may be better off spending the holidays with his mom and her family.

 

[sl222]

KW is the mother of both of them.

 

[Area52]

the last cruise I was on - summer of 2018 I did not recall noticing this - I will check in a few weeks and another sleuther is going next week/ we are taking our tape measures.....

Can you please measure the distance from the handrail to the window? There's a lot of talk about the distance, some saying as much as a foot. I was on that ship in October, and I'm sure it wasn't that much, but I could be wrong. TIA. And HAVE FUN!!!

 

[oviedo]

Can you please measure the distance from the handrail to the window? There's a lot of talk about the distance, some saying as much as a foot. I was on that ship in October, and I'm sure it wasn't that much, but I could be wrong. TIA. And HAVE FUN!!!

yes, that's on my list....