IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

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I’m glad to see the early PR Articles. I know there was one with a phone? Interview with a Witness (testigo)

Vaguely recall mention of somebody(ies) seeing something going on and not in time to stop it? Idk. Maybe from original thread ?

Haven’t watched the videos on my computer not sure if they’ll be more clear. I don’t see a lot of things others do - the rocking back and forth for example. Could he/they been waving to people on the ground :eek::(

IF. IF they were waving to people on the ground well then there’s your witnesses. OMG imagine.
 
I’m glad to see the early PR Articles. I know there was one with a phone? Interview with a Witness (testigo)

Vaguely recall mention of somebody(ies) seeing something going on and not in time to stop it? Idk. Maybe from original thread ?

Haven’t watched the videos on my computer not sure if they’ll be more clear. I don’t see a lot of things others do - the rocking back and forth for example. Could he/they been waving to people on the ground :eek::(
I read in an earlier post here that an employee on one of the lower decks saw what he was doing and was attempting to find someone to stop him. I don’t have a link nor do I have any idea if this is fact, but what if?
 
Chloe has an estate?! They act like Chloe was the primary breadwinner of the family.

The personal representative(s) of an estate have standing to sue on the estate's behalf. If there were none, and perchance they won, money would come into the estate and there would probably have to be one appointed. Chloe's estate contains choses of action, that is, rights to sue, against RCCI and IMO against SA. However, again IMO, this would not mean they could be forced to sue SA or are somehow neglectful in not pursuing it as the PRs are also the heirs-at-law and are under no obligation to pursue every case to maximize the value of the estate.

Re whether there are issues of fact, RCCI has submitted pictures and so has MW. Even though the photographs seem questionable, MW is saying to the court that whether or not something is impossible is the province of the jury and therefore plaintiffs should survive the 12(b)(6) motion. That IMO will be enough to get them by at this early stage of the proceeding.

Note that this only would get them to discovery, not to trial. Defendant would have another opportunity to ask the judge to dismiss the case after discovery is completed, called "summary judgment". I think they will have a better chance then. MW's questionable photographs won't get them by at later stages because the facts will have been better developed through discovery. Right now we are legally in a very early stage of the proceeding; defendant has not even filed an answer and grounds of defense yet.
 
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I read in an earlier post here that an employee on one of the lower decks saw what he was doing and was attempting to find someone to stop him. I don’t have a link nor do I have any idea if this is fact, but what if?

No, I agree. I remember that as well. Was going to get supervisor. Too bad he didn’t go right to SA. But I bet RCCL protocol was get a supervisor to handle cruisers. Might have saved her life.
 
She will be if they win a major lawsuit. I think they are expecting many millions of dollars.

The family could not institute a lawsuit on Chloe's behalf without being appointed as administrator of her estate, so opening up a probate process for CW to be appointed the administrators was a necessary first step in filing the lawsuit. If they "win" the proceeds are paid to CW's estate (as the plaintiff in the lawsuit) and then per intestacy law those proceeds would be paid to her parents as her surviving heirs at law. It sounds cold but this is the legal procedure necessary to sue on behalf of a child who has died. To me the more appalling piece is not the legal formality needed, but the fact that they began this probate process 8 days after she died!! Sometimes you have to wait longer than 8 days because the death certificate isn't even available yet! It's literally like the second they could file to become her administrator they did, only 8 days after her death. Btw there was no rush to do this, they literally could have waited months to open her estate and still have plenty of time within the statute of limitations to file a lawsuit. I'm not sure I would be able to get out of bed 8 days after my child died a horrific death, let alone already have an attorney and begin the process of suing RCCL. And on facts like this no less which it's clear (to me) it's SA's reckless actions that caused CW's death. The whole family seems off.
 
The personal representative(s) of an estate have standing to sue on the estate's behalf. If there were none, and perchance they won, money would come into the estate and there would probably have to be one appointed. Chloe's estate contains choses of action, that is, rights to sue, against RCCI and IMO against SA. However, again IMO, this would not mean they could be forced to sue SA or are somehow neglectful in not pursuing it as the PRs are also the heirs-at-law and are under no obligation to pursue every case to maximize the value of the estate.

Re whether there are issues of fact, RCCI has submitted pictures and so has MW. Even though the photographs seem questionable, MW is saying to the court that whether or not something is impossible is the province of the jury and therefore plaintiffs should survive the 12(b)(6) motion. That IMO will be enough to get them by at this early stage of the proceeding.

Note that this only would get them to discovery, not to trial. Defendant would have another opportunity to ask the judge to dismiss the case after discovery is completed, called "summary judgment". I think they will have a better chance then. MW's questionable photographs won't get them by at later stages because the facts will have been better developed through discovery. Right now we are legally in a very early stage of the proceeding; defendant has not even filed an answer and grounds of defense yet.
Thank you, Wehwalt, for the excellent explanation. Hopefully, the discovery put forth by RCL will be more than sufficient to terminate this frivolous lawsuit.
 
The family could not institute a lawsuit on Chloe's behalf without being appointed as administrator of her estate, so opening up a probate process for CW to be appointed the administrators was a necessary first step in filing the lawsuit. If they "win" the proceeds are paid to CW's estate (as the plaintiff in the lawsuit) and then per intestacy law those proceeds would be paid to her parents as her surviving heirs at law. It sounds cold but this is the legal procedure necessary to sue on behalf of a child who has died. To me the more appalling piece is not the legal formality needed, but the fact that they began this probate process 8 days after she died!! Sometimes you have to wait longer than 8 days because the death certificate isn't even available yet! It's literally like the second they could file to become her administrator they did, only 8 days after her death. Btw there was no rush to do this, they literally could have waited months to open her estate and still have plenty of time within the statute of limitations to file a lawsuit. I'm not sure I would be able to get out of bed 8 days after my child died a horrific death, let alone already have an attorney and begin the process of suing RCCL. And on facts like this no less which it's clear (to me) it's SA's reckless actions that caused CW's death. The whole family seems off.
My sentiments EXACTLY. Awesome post.
 
Ugh if a worker on the deck below could see this then CW was either out the window, or so close to the edge of the window someone below could see it and know it wasn't safe. Which puts it back to the question - what on earth was SA thinking being so reckless with a toddler!?! It boggles my mind anyone can be this completely stupid. I still am curious to find out if he was on some type of medication that dulled either his reaction time and/or his common sense. Or this could have been reckless passive/aggressive behavior at being "stuck" watching Chloe when everyone else was having fun. Whatever the truth - he 100% knew that window was open and the fact that this family sticks up for him makes me mental.

When you look at the photo of the LE in the window taken from outside the ship, you can see how someone would think she was in the window or very close.

freedom-of-the-seas-child-falls-window.jpg
 
The family could not institute a lawsuit on Chloe's behalf without being appointed as administrator of her estate, so opening up a probate process for CW to be appointed the administrators was a necessary first step in filing the lawsuit. If they "win" the proceeds are paid to CW's estate (as the plaintiff in the lawsuit) and then per intestacy law those proceeds would be paid to her parents as her surviving heirs at law. It sounds cold but this is the legal procedure necessary to sue on behalf of a child who has died. To me the more appalling piece is not the legal formality needed, but the fact that they began this probate process 8 days after she died!! Sometimes you have to wait longer than 8 days because the death certificate isn't even available yet! It's literally like the second they could file to become her administrator they did, only 8 days after her death. Btw there was no rush to do this, they literally could have waited months to open her estate and still have plenty of time within the statute of limitations to file a lawsuit. I'm not sure I would be able to get out of bed 8 days after my child died a horrific death, let alone already have an attorney and begin the process of suing RCCL. And on facts like this no less which it's clear (to me) it's SA's reckless actions that caused CW's death. The whole family seems off.

Exactly. The general rule is that the Statute of Limitations for filing a wrongful death is 2 years in Federal Court. I am with you...I wouldn’t even be able to get out of bed. The farthest thing from my mind would be talking with attorneys about filing a lawsuit. They literally had to be doing this while writing their daughter’s obituary and making plans to lay her to rest. It just don’t understand this family.
 
The family could not institute a lawsuit on Chloe's behalf without being appointed as administrator of her estate, so opening up a probate process for CW to be appointed the administrators was a necessary first step in filing the lawsuit. If they "win" the proceeds are paid to CW's estate (as the plaintiff in the lawsuit) and then per intestacy law those proceeds would be paid to her parents as her surviving heirs at law. It sounds cold but this is the legal procedure necessary to sue on behalf of a child who has died. To me the more appalling piece is not the legal formality needed, but the fact that they began this probate process 8 days after she died!! Sometimes you have to wait longer than 8 days because the death certificate isn't even available yet! It's literally like the second they could file to become her administrator they did, only 8 days after her death. Btw there was no rush to do this, they literally could have waited months to open her estate and still have plenty of time within the statute of limitations to file a lawsuit. I'm not sure I would be able to get out of bed 8 days after my child died a horrific death, let alone already have an attorney and begin the process of suing RCCL. And on facts like this no less which it's clear (to me) it's SA's reckless actions that caused CW's death. The whole family seems off.
Excellent post!
The speed with which they did this could be perceived as they were counting on a fast and uncontested settlement. Not a flattering look for them.
Personally, I would be catatonic in bed.
 
Gosh, I thought about what I would do if I were near them at that window. I think the first 15 seconds I would be trying to figure out if I was just imagining what I was seeing. Is he trying to kill this child? Or playing with her? Then it would take me awhile to figure out how do I tell this man not to do that without startling him and causing him to drop her? Omg.....
 
Dirty Windows on Ship.?
@Pammi :) sbm bbm I wonder if windows -- on embarkation day- would be freshly cleaned. If so, maybe not a reason for SA to pick her up.

The Windows in the outside of the ship I was weren’t cleaned before we boarded. I saw some window washing by the crew a couple times when we were docked at a port for the day. It was the same way in the last ship I took also....
 
Gosh, I thought about what I would do if I were near them at that window. I think the first 15 seconds I would be trying to figure out if I was just imagining what I was seeing. Is he trying to kill this child? Or playing with her? Then it would take me awhile to figure out how do I tell this man not to do that without startling him and causing him to drop her? Omg.....
I posted my experience when I returned from my RCCL December cruise - and I will repeat it here -I was on deck 12 (fully open with railing - no windows) and I was steps away from a mom and another adult trying to get pictures of a 2 year old little girl - her back was to the railing so they could include the ocean and it was very windy as the ship was moving - I gave myself a count of 5 before I was going to approach them and tell them how dangerous it could be had she turned around and slipped over the railing - they grabbed her at 3 so I did not intervene - but I was ready
iMO
 
I don’t know how it works...whether if any money collected from the civil suit goes into the “estate” to be distributed to the surviving heirs...aka parents or if it is just for what it says...petition to name AW/KSW as the personal representatives of the estate for the sole purpose of filing a wrongful death.
They would open a bank account as PR of the Estate of CW and pay any funds they got from the cruise line into it. I don't know how formal Indiana is on the estates of deceased minors. They might have to file an accounting of the funds. I would not expect anything likely to be difficult for the family. Indiana is only concerned with the proper disposition of any assets belonging to the estate, that is, the possible lawsuit winnings. Indiana is not concerned with her clothes and toys, and is not going to stick its nose into matters being handled by the courts elsewhere.
 
One thing I never noticed before is how much his upper body bulk takes up the available open window space imo View attachment 228985This is from my cruise - it’s sideways but you can see the opening just isn’t that big - he used a lot of effort to get her out that window IMO
I’ve seen several shots of him from the side with his right elbow bent, and further back than his other arm. Is this where he needed to hold her with one arm. I had also wondered if he did actually hold her by her swim straps on the back. Moo
 
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