IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[10ofRods]

Parents of Chloe Wiegand stand by her grandfather after he is charged in her death | Daily Mail Online

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  • Parents Kimberly, 36, and Alan Wiegand, 41, plan to sue the liner for 'inexplicably' leaving a window open in a family play area
  • Family lawyer Michael Winkleman suggested Puerto Rican authorities may have 'ulterior motives' for charging Anello instead of blaming the cruise line
  • He told DailyMail.com the family understands 'that it was an accident and that [Anello] thought this was a wall of windows'
  • Winkleman added: 'What surprised me is that there was an effort to try to have this case go forward in an effort to try to help Royal Caribbean

Looks like the parents might go ahead with the lawsuit ?

I get it that S.A. was the step-grandpa; and that people should be loyal to their relatives.
But I personally couldn't forget and forgive the negligent death of my baby.
No way , no how. Impossible.

Interesting how the "children's play area" has changed to "family play area" when in my view, the area shown in the pictures on this thread are neither. It looks like a typical lounge area, such as one would find in a hotel and apparently there's a bar nearby. The children's play area is depicted else (for that liner) and it's on a different floor.

I wonder how the family will try and explain in court how Chloe went out the window. The window was open for air flow (quite explicable) and she didn't go out on her own. Someone had to lift her up...

 

[oviedo]

For those of you who have taken cruises, do people commonly bring toddlers along? I have never taken a cruise but friends and coworkers who have, and none of them have taken young children along.

I’ve seen plenty of toddlers but more so in the weekday 5 day cruises vs the 4 day weekend “booze cruises” we call them - this is RCCL btw - Disney yes lots of smaller children - Celebrity - seemed very “adult” on the one cruise I went on with them. jMO

 

[Kindred]

Yes, I expect “negligent” homicide is full of meaning in this case, with the evidence to match, whatever it is. Even if he was sober, sitting or standing her on the railing along the window is negligent, but I’m speaking as someone who is “edge phobic.” I will hazard a guess that he either sat her on the railing or on the edge of the open window with her legs dangling outside. If she got scared and struggled, he could have lost his balance and his grip. But I could be way off and will be interested in the evidence. It’s a tragedy.

I honestly think something like this is entirely possible. I'm also terrified of the edges of high places, no matter what kind of railing or fencing or barriers are in place. My daughter laughs because I'll creep up one step at a time and reach out and if it's too high I have to back away. It's very possible that even if he had just set her there wanting her to see the view that she might have startled and tried to turn to grab him or ask to be held closer and down she went. Pediatricians constantly warn people not to put their little ones on tables or counters or other high objects they could easily just tumble off of. Hold her in your arms if you want to show her the view so she can turn and hide against you if she's scared, don't put her in the damn window!

 

[oviedo]

I honestly think something like this is entirely possible. I'm also terrified of the edges of high places, no matter what kind of railing or fencing or barriers are in place. My daughter laughs because I'll creep up one step at a time and reach out and if it's too high I have to back away. It's very possible that even if he had just set her there wanting her to see the view that she might have startled and tried to turn to grab him or ask to be held closer and down she went. Pediatricians constantly warn people not to put their little ones on tables or counters or other high objects they could easily just tumble off of. Hold her in your arms if you want to show her the view so she can turn and hide against you if she's scared, don't put her in the damn window!

Yes !! I mentioned upthread I would be holding my child or any on my hip with one arm securely around the back - I personally cannot imagine setting a child on a railing up against a glass window - he had been on the ship for some amount of time I’m assuming and never noticed any of the windows were open as he walked her towards them ? JMO

 

[Safeguard]

I haven't sailed on a RCCL ship for at least 20 years and cannot speak to their smoking policy. DH and I usually sail with Princess, so I know what their smoking policy is even though neither DH nor I have ever smoked. Smoking is not permitted in passenger staterooms or on balconies. No smoking in enclosed venues, i.e. dining rooms, theatres, lounges, shops, etc. with the exception of the casino on designated "smoking" nights. Smoking is permitted on one side of certain open deck areas on upper levels of the ship (I don't know which side because I don't smoke). Some Princess ships also have a dedicated smoking lounge where cigar smoking is permitted. Passengers who are caught smoking in staterooms or on balconies or in other non-smoking areas of the ship can be fined.

Well thank you for that very informative post. Sounds like the area of the accident may not have even been a smoking area... Sneaking a quick smoke out an open window in a non smoking area could contribute to to carelessness though... not that that is what happened, but grandpa was a rule breaker, by some accounts.

 

[SuziQ]

I finally watched this - wow what I was remembering is exactly this - the story is he sat her on the rail - look how far away that is from the opening - IMO he either let her go (maybe a game?) and she slipped forward or he tripped and let her go to break his fall - both are versions of what’s been reported (not the game part) - no way could he think for one second there was glass there if he was not impaired IMO

I agree that there was some sort of impairment. I just don't know what kind.

 

[Safeguard]

If I was on the jury and saw the picture of the child standing - by herself ON THE GROUND - my first thought would be that the picture didn’t help their case at all. It doesn’t show that she was used to grandfather LIFTING her up to bang on windows. It doesn’t show that was their usual practice. IMO he was playing some type of game with her and simply lost his grip. A tragic accident. Shortly after come the changes in the story, lack of family cooperation, blame on cruise line, then lawsuit filled pretty fast.

Wow! Thanks for that. Imo that video make it perfectly clear. There's just NO way of mistaking open for closed.

Best video I've seen yet .

 

[MyBelle]

LE wants to try the grandfather in the court of public opinion?
Exactly how does that work?

It doesn't.

 

[oviedo]

Well thank you for that very informative post. Sounds like the area of the accident may not have even been a smoking area... Sneaking a quick smoke out an open window in a non smoking area could contribute to to carelessness though... not that that is what happened, but grandpa was a rule breaker, by some accounts.

I tried to see if there were ashtrays on any of the tables in the pictures with yellow tape - but they were too grainy - if the smoking side was toward the dock and non -smoking was facing the open water - that could be a clue IMO I just don’t know for freedom of the seas

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Well thank you for that very informative post. Sounds like the area of the accident may not have even been a smoking area... Sneaking a quick smoke out an open window in a non smoking area could contribute to to carelessness though... not that that is what happened, but grandpa was a rule breaker, by some accounts.

Here's the RCCL smoking policy: What is the onboard smoking policy? | Royal Caribbean Cruises

 

[MyBelle]

Huh?! Where did that come from? You have bolded only the latter part of my post, ignoring the first part of the sentence, which clearly read:


BBM

I was referencing/quoting and bolding your post, MyBelle. I said nothing about LE or the judge trying this in the court of public opinion, and neither did you. Perhaps my wording was awkward and led to a mis-reading, but I was saying that you were accusing us (those who agree with LE’s arrest) of wanting the grandfather tried in the court of public opinion. Since we are discussing this case on a WS thread, I could only conclude that you were referring to fellow posters, and I don’t think you are characterizing us fairly. Here is what I was referencing:



I hope this is clear now.

I'm not going to play your game. I didn't misrepresent or twist any of your post, which is below.

We'll agree to disagree and move on.

Lilibet said:
BBM

No need to accuse those of us who agree with LE of wanting to try the grandfather in the court of public opinion. We are entitled to look at the evidence we have and form an opinion while we wait for a trial or plea deal, just as you are.

 

[Lilibet]

It doesn't.

They aren’t. LE has been very quiet.

 

[MyBelle]

I've never quite understood this story. Honestly I think he had to have known the window was open? As for the hockey glass...that window looks nothing like that in my opinion?

I think it was negligence, but to charge him with manslaughter...I'm not sure how I feel about that either. When they immediately blamed and sued the cruise ship...well that was creepy and weird too.

I'm all over the place with this one. I'm just not totally sure about any of this?

The parents didn't immediately sue the cruise ship. I think the U.S. requires incident reports and complaints to be filed first.

I question the timing of this arrest. I'm betting Carnival is as shocked as the family and are not happy about it because of the renewed publicity. Stock price is down.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I'm not going to play your game. I didn't misrepresent or twist any of your post, which is below.

We'll agree to disagree and move on.

Lilibet said:
BBM

No need to accuse those of us who agree with LE of wanting to try the grandfather in the court of public opinion. We are entitled to look at the evidence we have and form an opinion while we wait for a trial or plea deal, just as you are.

It appears you misunderstood my post which I have admitted was poorly worded. However if you read further posts of mine you will understand where the misunderstanding occurred. It was not my intention to say LE was trying the case in the court of public opinion. You were clearly referring to posts here on WS, and that’s what I awkwardly referenced. My apologies for my poor syntax, but we are not trying this case in the court of public opinion and I felt your comment was unfair to the thread posters. No games intended. Agree to disagree.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I'm not going to play your game. I didn't misrepresent or twist any of your post, which is below.

We'll agree to disagree and move on.

Lilibet said:
BBM

No need to accuse those of us who agree with LE of wanting to try the grandfather in the court of public opinion. We are entitled to look at the evidence we have and form an opinion while we wait for a trial or plea deal, just as you are.

What Is Parsing? Definition and Examples in English Grammar

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The parents didn't immediately sue the cruise ship. I think the U.S. requires incident reports and complaints to be filed first.

I question the timing of this arrest. I'm betting Carnival is as shocked as the family and are not happy about it because of the renewed publicity. Stock price is down.

JMO

Freedom of the Seas is a Royal Caribbean vessel, not Carnival.

 

[IceIce9]

The parents didn't immediately sue the cruise ship. I think the U.S. requires incident reports and complaints to be filed first.

I question the timing of this arrest. I'm betting Carnival is as shocked as the family and are not happy about it because of the renewed publicity. Stock price is down.

JMO

Stock price is down on Carnival? This was a Royal Caribbean cruise.

 

[Montrealaise]

Interesting how the "children's play area" has changed to "family play area" when in my view, the area shown in the pictures on this thread are neither. It looks like a typical lounge area, such as one would find in a hotel and apparently there's a bar nearby. The children's play area is depicted else (for that liner) and it's on a different floor.

I wonder how the family will try and explain in court how Chloe went out the window. The window was open for air flow (quite explicable) and she didn't go out on her own. Someone had to lift her up...

By repeatedly saying that the window was in a children's (or family) play area, the family is trying to imply that the window was easily accessible to children and therefore dangerous. We know the window is several feet off the ground and has a safety railing in front of it, so the only way a child could reach it is if an adult lifted her up and over the railing - which is what happened.

 

[Kindred]

The parents didn't immediately sue the cruise ship. I think the U.S. requires incident reports and complaints to be filed first.

I question the timing of this arrest. I'm betting Carnival is as shocked as the family and are not happy about it because of the renewed publicity. Stock price is down.

JMO

Yes, RC is just suffering over this. There's no way that the downturn that has been going on since about May and affecting pretty much every stock on the market can be attributed to anything other than this.

 

[Lilibet]

By repeatedly saying that the window was in a children's (or family) play area, the family is trying to imply that the window was easily accessible to children and therefore dangerous. We know the window is several feet off the ground and has a safety railing in front of it, so the only way a child could reach it is if an adult lifted her up and over the railing - which is what happened.

It’s so dishonest to misrepresent the location of the window this way. When anyone repeats the same false statement over and over again to the press it appears they are trying to sway public opinion and influence people who don’t dig deeper. We see this all the time nowadays. But this won’t hold up in a real court, thankfully.