IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[SmoothOperator]

Some thoughts brought about from reading northsider's post with some all important details and questions regarding the events of that night and early morning..(BTW WELCOME northsider! And GREAT FIRST POST!!)

There are aspects, issues, and details that we haven't a clue about, have no way of finding the answers to, and very likely that we may never know and therefor understand..it's one of the most difficult and frustrating parts of following this case.. It has been a welcome surprise to have both LE and parents that have consistently been extremely vocal throughout the case thus far.. For many of us who have followed many of the more recent cases(last 2-3yrs)we have been overwhelmed with the frustration of the extreme tight lipped nature of some of those.. That IMO has no way whatsoever benefitted in any way the investigation of these particular cases.. So it is that difference I must make mention of that I feel many of us felt overjoyed and extremely optimistic about.. Sadly tho in this case I feel that LE could most likely tip to us the public their entire hand and yet we still would not be any closer to finding Lauren.. I feel strongly that the main piece to which all other pieces depend upon in order for the puzzle to complete.. That main piece is still not been revealed to LE at this time.. I think this is why today,at the last scheduled presser we had both the parents and LE desperately make this plea to Lauren's friends..

One of those missing details that I mentioned(as far as us not knowing the answers to)is the dynamics of the relationships between the players of this case.. Meaning, for example DR who is one of the more recent names to come to light. We know that he and LS together went to Jay's apt supposedly to watch the game(even tho this game was over by midnite and HT claims that LS left to go to watch this game at Jay's at 12:30am.. But ok whatever.. Just another of the many Inconsistencies from HT).. so, I assume he too was friends with Jay.. But truthfully I havent a clue of his relationship to JR. For all we know that could have been the first time DR had ever even been to Jay's and that he was only there because of a friendship with LS..

It is those type details, especially where the dynamics of each *of their interpersonal relationships is concerned that makes even figuring out the somewhat simplest of issues surrounding this case..

I don't know how strange(or not) the 4:15am phonecall to DR from JR's phone is because I haven't a clue of what the dynamics of those two's relationship is/was.. Nor do we of Lauren and DR.. This of course adds another layer of difficulty in looking at the case..

Another detail not known to us is the communication(whether with actual contact made or not)attempted or succeeded in doing by JW.. These attempts at communication are HUGE!! and in knowing whether they exist or better yet at what times they exist are HUGE deciding factor for many of us.. So much so that they literally would "rule in" or "rule out" JW's involvement in LS disappearance.. For example if we knew that at some point immediately following the altercation in Smallwood that JW's phone shows a call or text from any involved or anyone that was present and witnessed that 5th floor lobby altercation.. That would be HUGE!! and yes, when you get the cell records it is easily discerned at what time the *msg was opened(as in if there were texts received that were telling Jesse of the altercation but he were asleep and did not open the message til the following day when he awoke.. That would be able to be easily discerned).. If it was seen that Jesse received calls/texts from anyone AFTer that 2:30 altercation and then was followed by a flood of calls or texts to Laurens phone.. This again would be absolutely a HUGE deciding factor for some of us..

These details not known to us and most likely will NEVER be known to us.. All add layers and layers of difficulty in looking at real amd true possibilities of what could have possibly happened to Lauren in those early morning hours of June 3rd..

One other issue I wanted to touch on was that in learning from gitana1's(verified lawyer)response to my questions about JR and his ATTY being able to keep LE from serving search warrants on him, his vehicle, his cell, bank records, etc.. She stated that due to his being the last person to see the victim in this criminal investigation would be more than sufficient to override any privacy laws his ATTY may try to use to quash the search warrants.. So in knowing that LE is able to successfully obtain thru subpoenas these search warrants that would enable them to have full access to all of these ^above^ mentioned items related to JR.. What are the thoughts on their seemingly not having done a search on his car(as he has remained in Michigan).. Are they sending officers there to execute these type warrants or do they find nothing sufficient that makes them feel it necessary to even search JR's vehicle..??

I guess my top confusion is that at this point(3weeks in) LE almost without a doubt has in their possession all of these main players cell phone records.. So am I to assume that there is nothing shown in any of these main players cell activity that has led them even 1 step toward finding what's hAppened to Lauren.. If this is indeed the case.. That In researching ALL OF THISE INVOLVED's cell activity that there was nothing found that would in anyway indicate ANYTHING of substance whatsoever to aid them solving the case..

If that is true then I would have to say IMO that most likely is indicative of a stranger, random, opportunity driven abductor that is the perp in this cAse..

But then why has mom consistently hit home in every single presser that she is speaking directly to Laurens circle of "friends" with today having the chief drive this point home that they are upset and disappointed with this group of friends..

Would love to hear anyone's take/view/opinion on any of these specific details, issues, or questions mentioned ^above^..

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

One of those missing details that I mentioned(as far as us not knowing the answers to)is the dynamics of the relationships between the players of this case.. Meaning, for example DR who is one of the more recent names to come to light. We know that he and LS together went to Jay's apt supposedly to watch the game(even tho this game was over by midnite and HT claims that LS left to go to watch this game at Jay's at 12:30am.. But ok whatever.. Just another of the many Inconsistencies from HT).. so, I assume he too was friends with Jay.. But truthfully I havent a clue of his relationship to JR. For all we know that could have been the first time DR had ever even been to Jay's and that he was only there because of a friendship with LS..

DR and JR are facebook friends. HT characterizes them all as mutual friends, at least in a loose sense. It's certainly possible that LS and DR went to JR's to watch a DVR'd game, but my assumption is that that was a cover for drug use.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Another detail not known to us is the communication(whether with actual contact made or not)attempted or succeeded in doing by JW.. These attempts at communication are HUGE!! and in knowing whether they exist or better yet at what times they exist are HUGE deciding factor for many of us.. So much so that they literally would "rule in" or "rule out" JW's involvement in LS disappearance.. For example if we knew that at some point immediately following the altercation in Smallwood that JW's phone shows a call or text from any involved or anyone that was present and witnessed that 5th floor lobby altercation.. That would be HUGE!!

I believe JW attempted to contact LS that evening and went to bed without hearing anything back. I know nothing to indicate that he was aware of the altercation that night or even, perhaps, prior to discovering the disappearance.

 

[jjenny]

If this was a stranger abduction, what kind of information could her friends possibly provide to solve the case? They wouldn't know anything.
So that makes me think that stranger abduction is not high up on the list of possibilities. Of course police could be wrong on this. Sometimes when they suspect people who knew the victim, it actually is stranger abduction.

 

[elmomom]

The 4:15AM phone call could be exculpatory in a way too. Assuming JR actually told police she was calling DR about her lost phone (and that could be because she wanted to ask him if she had it with her when they were together or ask if he picked it up for her possibly) then how did JR know to make up a story about a lost cell phone as cover for the call?

The police should know whether anyone with info about her losing her phone had talked with JR and told him about it before they questioned him and he told the story about the phone call. ...assuming he did tell the police that info.

Of course it's possible she told JR she'd lost her cell phone before anything happened to her.

If JR didn't know she'd lost her cellphone that night and just made that story up to cover for a call he'd made himself in trying to create an alibi then that would be a very risky gamble to make just based on her not having her phone with her. She could've intentionally left it at her apartment and someone known that, it could've been broken and left behind somewhere and several people have known that, she could've loaned it to someone.

So if the only way before talking to police (and telling them who had made the call and why) JR could've known LS lost the cellphone was from LS herself then it would tip the scales a little more toward being able to believe that part of the story.

Since HT is not LE, I would have no trouble believing that it came up in the conversation with her and JR.
The conversation could have gone like this:

"JR, do you know where LS is, she didn't come home last night and JW told me that she doesn't even have her phone - He told me she had left it at Kilroy's!"

"HT, I don't know! She was here last night and left around 4:30. She called up there to find out if DR had her phone but he didn't answer"

"JR what time was that?"
"It was around 4:15, LS."

And now we have, written in stone, the call made by LS to DR at 4:30 on JRs phone.

 

[jabberwocky]

I'm sorry, I don't need a link to draw every conclusion in this case.

If LS and JW were in a great relationship ...

1. Would Lauren be in the company of another male at 2 a.m? --- a guy she barely knew, no less?
2. Would her b/f just sit at home all night and not try to contact her until the next day?
he knew it was going on, because his buddies were there and beat the guy up

I think it's a step of about 1 inch to reach the conclusion that Lauren and JW were no longer "together", or at least having serious problems.

(unless this was normal behavior for LS, which nobody has indicated was the case)

You certainly have the right to speculate, but IMO it's better to base speculation on facts as we're told them by MSM.

 

[akh]

That's my point... Police would have to piece together who told what to whom and when regarding the missing phone and the 4:15AM call.

If JR's first communication with anyone regarding the events of that night included him saying she'd called DR from his phone about her lost phone (before anyone told him she'd lost her phone) then it would add some credibility to the story IMHO.

But yeah, if someone tells him she'd lost her phone before he brings up the call then it's a moot point almost.

 

[elmomom]

I have no links to back me up, but I just do not think that the most likely scenario is JR. First of all, why make up the phone call that it was LS???? Why leave it so questionable that you could be culpable... and why go through the trouble about saying where you saw her walk to, if you didn't?

And why is the 4:30 time so written in concrete in the LE official time line. They don't even add a qualifier to state it is only 1 person's story and he is one of the POIs. Sometimes I think they may have another witness that backs up the fact that LS did indeed leave 5 North at 4:30.

But this is all my own speculation lol and not worth very much.

 

[elmomom]

I'm sorry, I don't need a link to draw every conclusion in this case.

If LS and JW were in a great relationship ...

1. Would Lauren be in the company of another male at 2 a.m? --- a guy she barely knew, no less?
2. Would her b/f just sit at home all night and not try to contact her until the next day?
he knew it was going on, because his buddies were there and beat the guy up

I think it's a step of about 1 inch to reach the conclusion that Lauren and JW were no longer "together", or at least having serious problems.

(unless this was normal behavior for LS, which nobody has indicated was the case)

totally disagree here... In the past, as a woman, I have, I know others that have, and known many that do feel it is ok to be in the company of a man other than a BF at all hours of the night. Especially if the woman had a somewhat different circle of friends. And different habits, possibly. It really does not always equate to trouble in a relationship.
That being said, it is extremely odd that there seem to be no other women in this group at all for the entire evening. This, I do not buy.

 

[shockedandappalled]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

Having daughters the same age I can tell you that if they have to get up for class which HT did they often turn their phones off or on silent.

Or there could have been tension in the apartment due to some disagreement. That's the life of 4 girls in those apartments there are often silly quarrels about who did or did not clean up the kitchen etc.

Maybe they recently had a spat and LS didn't feel comfortable waking up HT.

If it was for a ride does HT have a car? If not why call her?

Was HT with a guy and if so LS wouldn't want to bother her.

I agree with the DR was out that night so it was a better chance he would be up theory.

 

[Jupiter812]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

Excellent.

 

[shockedandappalled]

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that you don't need assistance to get into Smallwood, the building (at all hours?), though you may need a card to use the elevator and/or get into your room.

I believe the call was for assistance getting LS home, something for which HT or any other female (without a car?), would not be ideally-suited.

No the doors (front and back) are locked and you need a key card to get in.

Even on move-in day which is difficult for us parents.

 

[cluciano63]

Didn't someone's lawyer also say a call was made at 4:15 from JR's phone? I know we've been over this...it wasn't just HT who said it. If a lawyer said it, then it happened, as it could be verified, IMO.

Also, why would JW still be a POI if he had gone to bed and there was no texting, no phone calls, etc...? Just because he is the boyfriend? I guess it's possible, but it seems as though there would be more of a reason.

And JR saying that LS left his house at 4:30AM means to me that either she did, or that he knows she was seen at his house just before that time.

 

[wisco23]

There has to be some sort of tactical reasoning (which I don't understand) behind LE's decision to definitively say that "Nobody has been cleared". How could that be possible. At least 10 POIs and none of them have good enough alibis to be cleared? I just find that hard to believe.

 

[coltsgal]

I don't see anything wrong with reporting her missing "so" early.

HT likely reported she didn't come home (at least until the time she left for class)

She wasn't answering her phone, which I believe JW found out it was left at the bar...along with her shoes. That alone would be reason enough, because of the fact that our cell phones are glued to our ears now-a-days.

So, we have 1. she hasn't been home....2. She never picked up her cell or shoes in over 12 hours.

Then they find out that JR reported seeing her round the corner on the way home, and apparently she never made it home (back to HT) There, we have come full circle...

I would have reported her too. Especially if I called her parents to let them know and they seem very concerned...I would do it out of respect for them at the very least.

ETA: JW went to the apartment after getting keys from HT and probably also noted no evidence that she was there after HT had left for class.

 

[elmomom]

There has to be some sort of tactical reasoning (which I don't understand) behind LE's decision to definitively say that "Nobody has been cleared". How could that be possible. At least 10 POIs and none of them have good enough alibis to be cleared? I just find that hard to believe.

3 things come to mind. The first, they feel they can't really clear anyone if they don't believe that they know what happened. Not likely, but it could be their methodology.
Second, they don't want to take the pressure off anyone yet in the hopes that more of the details of the evening will come to light from the POIs.
3rd, they are still processing the evidence required to "clear" them, and are relying on more than alibi testimony. And in this case it seems like that would be a good idea.

 

[ingra1327]

Didn't someone's lawyer also say a call was made at 4:15 from JR's phone? I know we've been over this...it wasn't just HT who said it. If a lawyer said it, then it happened, as it could be verified, IMO.

Also, why would JW still be a POI if he had gone to bed and there was no texting, no phone calls, etc...? Just because he is the boyfriend? I guess it's possible, but it seems as though there would be more of a reason.

And JR saying that LS left his house at 4:30AM means to me that either she did, or that he knows she was seen at his house just before that time.

Yes, CR's lawyer says that DR was part of the group that went to the Indy 500, he goes on to say:

Rohn received a phone call about 4:15 a.m. June 3, Chapman said. “Somebody called Rohn’s number at 4:15 and it was not answered, but I don’t know who called,” he said.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/17/news.327394.sto

 

[coltsgal]

I also wanted to put my two cents in regarding another topic that was discussed.

Some people wonder why the 4:15 call was actually a phone call and not a text, since everyone is very big into texts now.

I text a lot. But I also know that when I text someone, they get ONE alert on their phone and that's that. If you call someone, the ringtone can be louder than a text, and also occurs for anywhere from 3-5 rings, depending on your phone settings.

Therefore, if I were trying to get into my apartment at 4:30, and I needed a friend to let me in, I would call them in an effort to wake them up...I would assume it's unlikely they would hear a text in the middle of a dead sleep so early in the morning. A call would have a better chance of waking someone.

 

[cluciano63]

I know in some cases it has taken a while to obtain all the cell records they want and need...it is possible (I hope) that they don't have all of that information yet. That would be about the only way I could see anything breaking for LE, other than someone talking or finding Lauren.

 

[akh]

She wouldn't need the key card if she decided to walk to JW's. Would there be video showing that? I don't know. Assuming there wouldn't be then that would answer the question of if he had anything to do with her disappearance how could he find her that night and not be seen around Smallwood... He wouldn't have had to find her in this scenario, she would've come to him.

Showing up at his door at 4:30AM barefoot and wasted might've allowed his mind to wander on just what she'd been up to. ...even if his friends hadn't already told him.... And at this point we (the public) have no idea if he'd learned anything about her companion that night or not (they wouldn't necessarily had to call, text, or email... someone could've stopped by his place and told him in person).

Statistically, he most likely did it. He clearly could have motive (jealousy, anger). His actions the afternoon of the 3rd, based on what we know, could be construed as jumping the gun by automatically assuming she was missing and escalating the situation.

He'd also have the longest period of time to dispose of the body and evidence because he'd be in total control of the situation as to when anyone was going to consider her missing. Very little chance anyone else was going to consider her missing before he did that day. He could've even bought more time. But, if he's trying to remove suspicion from himself then he'd also want to be the one to notice her missing. Which could explain giving himself plenty of time to dispose of the body and clean up evidence, yet jumping the gun on being sure she was thought of as 'missing' and not allowing someone else to get curious a little later.

But, we don't know if he had opportunity....