IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The answer to most of these questions, of course, is we don't know.

Which is why I'm asking for a scenario.

A scenario about which JR knows is easy - she OD'd or otherwise died at his place and he and/or others present at his place, which apparently includes at least one unknown individual, got rid of her, free of camera or roommate attention. Given the circumstantial evidence, someone involved with drug dealing (who may be unknown) may have been involved. We have no next time for which JR or anyone else present must account.

 

[elmomom]

I posed a question earlier and I really would like more responses. If you were to charecterize the POIs as "LS friends" or "not her friends" before she went missing, who would be which.
My list looked like this
JW, DR, CR, JR and HT = friends
ZO, AB and 3rd roomie BB = not her friends

MB ? don't know

 

[bx2]

Which is why I'm asking for a scenario.

A scenario about which JR knows is easy - she OD'd or otherwise died at his place and he and/or others present at his place, which apparently includes at least one unknown individual, got rid of her, free of camera or roommate attention. Given the circumstantial evidence, someone involved with drug dealing (who may be unknown) may have been involved. We have no next time for which JR or anyone else present must account.

(hypothetical) JW tries to go to sleep, gets worried that he hasn't heard back from LS on the night, and goes for a drive around the downtown area.

 

[bx2]

I posed a question earlier and I really would like more responses. If you were to charecterize the POIs as "LS friends" or "not her friends" before she went missing, who would be which.
My list looked like this
JW, DR, CR, JR and HT = friends
ZO, AB and 3rd roomie BB = not her friends

MB ? don't know

I'd characterize both MB and CR as unknown since she knew them only a short time. I'd call her relationship with ZO, AB, and other roomie as we don't even know if she knew them at all.

 

[cspring]

I posed a question earlier and I really would like more responses. If you were to charecterize the POIs as "LS friends" or "not her friends" before she went missing, who would be which.
My list looked like this
JW, DR, CR, JR and HT = friends
ZO, AB and 3rd roomie BB = not her friends

MB ? don't know

Obviously-I dont really KNOW but i would guess the first line to be accurate(although i think shes only known cr for that short time btwn indy 500 and that nite) but zo&company probably not as close. Aquaintances maybe....possible dope man?
MB is CRs roommate right? I cant remember-has any1 ever said she knew MB before CR?

P.s-thx for a change in direction! Im open to all poi's but the jw line is wearin me out for now! Round and round u know!

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

(hypothetical) JW tries to go to sleep, gets worried that he hasn't heard back from LS on the night, and goes for a drive around the downtown area.

So what transpires that involves her ending up dead, and causes him to successfully, without premeditation, dispose of the body alone?

 

[bloom54]

I don't know how many of the posters/lurkers here have ever had an LE polygraph. I had one about 15 years ago related to an issue at my place of employment. Because I knew that I was completely innocent, I agreed to a polygraph without hesitation. I now know that I would NEVER agree to something like that again, simply because it's not as straight-forward as I had imagined it might be.

In order for the person administering the test to establish a baseline, they ask a LOT of questions. Simple... where you live, names of your children, etc... and they occasionally slip in a question related to the issue that's in question. What I found troubling/disconcerting was that they asked some questions not related to the issue that I was not willing to answer with complete openness because they were very personal, and I didn't trust that the answers would be confidential.

There was no "pass/fail." But the person who analyzed the poly did tell me that my results were "troubling." NOT that they considered me to be guilty of the issue at hand, but that there were issues about which I was not completely honest. When I discussed those results with another LE person, he told me that I should probably never agree to take another test.

So, let's think about this. If these kids are taking/dealing drugs, or if they work for someplace and they're stealing bits of money from their work... or they cheated on their last final. Those are all the types of question that they might be asked - and they would be likely, I would imagine, to lie about those. So, I would imagine that the results of a poly would be unlikely to be as cut and dried as a pass/fail.

Just wanted to share that experience FWIW.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I have seen in previous cases where LE has been quiet about the one they most suspect in a case.They did speak with JW again which could very well mean he is still on their radar.JW should have been worried about not hearing from Lauren which makes me believe he might have went out looking that night for her and they met up in the alley.This is JMO.It just makes sense to me.

 

[bx2]

So what transpires that involves her ending up dead, and causes him to successfully, without premeditation, dispose of the body alone?

I don't know, I was merely responding back to your request for a plausible scenario that puts JW in her vicinity.

Originally Posted by bx2
The most compelling argument in JW's defense is the lack of him being present anywhere in LS's vicinity on the night in question. Yes, plausible scenarios can be contrived to combat that.

Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer
I'd like to hear one.

 

[bx2]

I don't know how many of the posters/lurkers here have ever had an LE polygraph. I had one about 15 years ago related to an issue at my place of employment. Because I knew that I was completely innocent, I agreed to a polygraph without hesitation. I now know that I would NEVER agree to something like that again, simply because it's not as straight-forward as I had imagined it might be.

In order for the person administering the test to establish a baseline, they ask a LOT of questions. Simple... where you live, names of your children, etc... and they occasionally slip in a question related to the issue that's in question. What I found troubling/disconcerting was that they asked some questions not related to the issue that I was not willing to answer with complete openness because they were very personal, and I didn't trust that the answers would be confidential.

There was no "pass/fail." But the person who analyzed the poly did tell me that my results were "troubling." NOT that they considered me to be guilty of the issue at hand, but that there were issues about which I was not completely honest. When I discussed those results with another LE person, he told me that I should probably never agree to take another test.

So, let's think about this. If these kids are taking/dealing drugs, or if they work for someplace and they're stealing bits of money from their work... or they cheated on their last final. Those are all the types of question that they might be asked - and they would be likely, I would imagine, to lie about those. So, I would imagine that the results of a poly would be unlikely to be as cut and dried as a pass/fail.

Just wanted to share that experience FWIW.

This is really interesting, thanks for providing it. Can I ask if you had an attorney at the time or not, only because I believe that what you described above is one of the main reasons why they do not want their client to partake.

 

[Moreack]

Somebody knows what happened to Lauren and where she is. This has gone beyond ridiculous. I can not believe that she has not been found yet and that none of her friends have come forward. NOTHING has been found? It makes no sense. I remember being an early 20 something in college and doing super stupid crazy stuff with my friends. I remember waking up in the morning and having no idea what I did the night before or how I got home. Were these kids so messed up that they can't remember what happened that night? I can't imagine that NONE of them remember anything. It seems like a Life Time movie. I think the truth will come out. I don't think that she was abducted.

I hope they find her soon. Her poor parents.

 

[cspring]

I give up for tonight. Good luck yall. For real this time-im going to bed!

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I don't know, I was merely responding back to your request for a plausible scenario that puts JW in her vicinity.

My request was for a plausible scenario in which JW is responsible or knowledgeable.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Somebody knows what happened to Lauren and where she is. This has gone beyond ridiculous. I can not believe that she has not been found yet and that none of her friends have come forward. NOTHING has been found? It makes no sense. I remember being an early 20 something in college and doing super stupid crazy stuff with my friends. I remember waking up in the morning and having no idea what I did the night before or how I got home. Were these kids so messed up that they can't remember what happened that night? I can't imagine that NONE of them remember anything. It seems like a Life Time movie. I think the truth will come out. I don't think that she was abducted.

I hope they find her soon. Her poor parents.

I agree with you and it is time for answers.I have a hard time watching her parents speak.It breaks my heart

 

[Walker]

There are clearly scenarios in which JW could be implicated and that is why he has been a POI. My problem is not with that. It was with the quote of another poster (who seems to believe that LS is alive in Israel) that JW is one the 2 people "who look most guilty". My problem was with the word "look", because based on his actions he looks totally not guilty (calling LS's parents, initiating police report, looking for her next day, etc).

LE named him a POI. They took dogs to his house.

And, he has motive.

But the point of my post was that both JR and JW could possibly be charged with very serious felonies. And, they are both associated with a frat which was banned for abusive hazing. The example I gave of the woman who hated her sorority was just to illustrate how people can resent being mistreated (or feeling mistreated) even years later.

We clearly see extreme bitterness in the rumors & gossip surrounding this case, JMO more so than in similar missing person cases. Could there be some type of group friction, where JW-JR-CR-MB are perceived as being members (or at least supporters) of the AEP@IU, and therefore either info is being withheld which might help them, or disinformation is being spread (example: the claim that JR is a big-time drug dealer etc) to embarrass them and put them in an even worse position? Or maybe just something else is going on (not sure exactly what) that has something to do with some person or group hating the frat?

My point is that although he could be theoretically implicated, there is nothing to suggest that his actions after her disappearance make him "look" guilty. If there is something, please outline, I am curious what that would be.

Saying someone looks most guilty is different that saying that he definitely is guilty. Obviously, he looks more guilty than most of the students at IU.

A similar case IMO seems to apply to HT. That poor girl whose roomate disappeared has obviously nothing to do with her disappearance. It does not take a genius to figure that out. However, that has not stropped many from calling her "suspicious", etc. etc. without anything to suggest that, except a TV interview, in which many were critical of or questioned her "behavior".

We need a new word to describe the people one associates with at college: "friend" just does not work. In one missing person case, one of the missing woman's co-workers organized searches and took a strong interest in the case; yet no one expressed contempt at the other co-workers who did not get that involved. The reason is that people tend to assume that college students (esp. roommates) are best friends, but co-workers are sometimes friends, and sometimes not. Were LS and HT just "co-students"?

 

[katydid23]

I think the most important tool that will either CLEAR or IMPLICATE the boyfriend is going to be his cell history. My suspicions come with the fact that he just went to bed, with no concern for her safety nor any apparent anger or jealousy that she was out on the town drinking and just blew him off. My kids are that age and they would follow up if that happened to them, imo.

So his cell history might clear him if he kept calling her, but eventually left angry texts about it, and then said EFF YOU, I am going to sleep.

But IF his cell history shows him calling her friends asking who she was with and/ or receiving calls/texts from the frat boys in the 'altercation', telling him who she was out with and where they were walking, THEN that might implicate him in something here.

 

[bloom54]

This is really interesting, thanks for providing it. Can I ask if you had an attorney at the time or not, only because I believe that what you described above is one of the main reasons why they do not want their client to partake.

I did not have an attorney. I knew I hadn't done anything wrong, so I felt perfectly comfortable agreeing to a polygraph. Little did I know how uncomfortable I was going to feel during and after the process! Just the polygraph alone can make you feel dirty and guilty.

I also didn't feel like I could call a halt to the test without appearing to admit guilt. And that is a very dangerous feeling to have!

 

[Frogzilla]

I don't know how many of the posters/lurkers here have ever had an LE polygraph. I had one about 15 years ago related to an issue at my place of employment. Because I knew that I was completely innocent, I agreed to a polygraph without hesitation. I now know that I would NEVER agree to something like that again, simply because it's not as straight-forward as I had imagined it might be.

In order for the person administering the test to establish a baseline, they ask a LOT of questions. Simple... where you live, names of your children, etc... and they occasionally slip in a question related to the issue that's in question. What I found troubling/disconcerting was that they asked some questions not related to the issue that I was not willing to answer with complete openness because they were very personal, and I didn't trust that the answers would be confidential.

There was no "pass/fail." But the person who analyzed the poly did tell me that my results were "troubling." NOT that they considered me to be guilty of the issue at hand, but that there were issues about which I was not completely honest. When I discussed those results with another LE person, he told me that I should probably never agree to take another test.

So, let's think about this. If these kids are taking/dealing drugs, or if they work for someplace and they're stealing bits of money from their work... or they cheated on their last final. Those are all the types of question that they might be asked - and they would be likely, I would imagine, to lie about those. So, I would imagine that the results of a poly would be unlikely to be as cut and dried as a pass/fail.

Just wanted to share that experience FWIW.

Very nice post, TY for sharing. Yes LE polygraph is much different from a controlled polygraph. Their whole purpose is to MAKE SURE you show deception so they can gauge it. Also remember, two people can look at a Polygraph result and have two separate conclusions. This is why it cannot be used in court and also why lawyers will always try to leverage a biased Polygraph result in their clients favor.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I think the most important tool that will either CLEAR or IMPLICATE the boyfriend is going to be his cell history. My suspicions come with the fact that he just went to bed, with no concern for her safety nor any apparent anger or jealousy that she was out on the town drinking and just blew him off. My kids are that age and they would follow up if that happened to them, imo.

So his cell history might clear him if he kept calling her, but eventually left angry texts about it, and then said EFF YOU, I am going to sleep.

But IF his cell history shows him calling her friends asking who she was with and/ or receiving calls/texts from the frat boys in the 'altercation', telling him who she was out with and where they were walking, THEN that might implicate him in something here.

Does it take awhile to get cell records back?

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

My suspicions come with the fact that he just went to bed, with no concern for her safety nor any apparent anger or jealousy that she was out on the town drinking and just blew him off.

What is the basis for your belief that he had any reason to be concerned, angry, or jealous?