IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[Ros]

So this Karen is not the one who reportedly thought she saw LS at 3:30AM being slung over someone's shoulder? This is a different bar employee from perhaps a different bar? I don't think I've even heard anything about another bar worker witness.

The story by TG referred to two different people. The story about Lauren at the bar in a stupor talking about cocaine and Xanax came from "a person close to the case." A few paragraphs later he talks about a witness who was a manager at a local bar. Many people have presumed these persons were the same individual.

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

 

[imkeylime]

I must defend Bloomington. It is not the town's fault... Whatever happened to LS was a tragic incident, like thousands that happen all over the US. The apartments and condos that these students live in attract the most affluent of the IU student body- and with money comes a lot of freedom. Most college kids drink underage, every college has a party scene. IU is a giant school, and the community is a strong one with rich traditions and I am proud to say it is my home. I originally come from NJ but have been here for the past 5 years and absolutely love it. Those kids probably all got arrested at tailgates, along with hundreds of kids each game day... Again like any other college. I can't say I agree with the whole pre trial diversion process, I think it should be structured differently... But the reality is that it's a money maker, and a great way for college students to learn their lesson without it being on their record permanently (in most cases).

LS's story has shed light on the darkest part of life in a college town, but it by no means defines Bloomington.

Agreed. I've never been to IU/Bloomington, but it doesn't sound much different than the college my son attends (except for its size), which isn't even known as a party school. I get kind of freaked out at the amount of partying my son describes, but then again, I hear similar stories from my HS-age daughter. I don't think it's criticizing LS by thinking she might have been partying that night, no matter what substances were involved.

Re: long QT syndrome: From what I've read, the event at SW OR being robbed, assaulted, etc., could have triggered an attack. Here's the info I found interesting:

"The usual symptoms are syncope (sudden loss of consciousness) or sudden death, typically occurring during physical activity or emotional upset. These most commonly begin in preteen to teenage years, but may present from a few days of age to middle age. The syncopal episodes are often misdiagnosed as the common faint (vasovagal event) or a seizure. Actual seizures are uncommon in long QT syndrome, but epilepsy is one of the common errors in diagnosis. Sudden loss of consciousness during physical exertion or during emotional excitement should strongly raise the possibility of the long QT syndrome." (http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html)

If LS had a bout with long QT syndrome around someone who didn't know she had it, it could be wrongly identified as something else, e.g., OD or alcohol poisoning. That "someone" wouldn't have to be a POI or a stalker ... it could even be a robber who got more than he/she bargained for, though I don't know if/why a robber would hide her body.

 

[Ros]

It is obvious that this case need some serious help. Is it just me or is it going off to crazy town? just like the HB case. There is nothing , nothing to even discuss. I think we have brought up plenty of stuff at this forum that is not utilized by the cops or the family. For example. We discussed LS unique jewlery. someone here was nice enough to post some of the DY turq ring styles, four color and all. Yet if you go to the find LS website, there is nothing.....nothing to help the public find Lauren. Just the same cast of characters over and over.
Why is ok for MB name to be out there but we still dont know if JR had a roomie that night, no name, no picture....we dont know who the peeps are that punched CR and why. I want to know why they are so protected from the media and specualtion on the forums.??? We dont know much about the peeps that found Laurens keys. I find the key story and timing bit odd. Maybe someone needs to account for their fingerprints.... Hopefully the story has video proof. I guess it has been only eight months but im sure for the family, it is eight months too long

p.s. This IU town sounds terrible to me. The fact that almost the entire group of friends have priors is unbelievable! really??? all these kids have priors? Sounds like over policing to me. And then when you need a cop, no where to be found...

Almost every IU student drinks. Many of them are under 21. The ones who do so carefully and responsibly are no likely to be caught by the police. The ones who drink to the point of passing out or doing something stupid, or use fake IDs to enter a bar, seem to be the ones likely to be arrested for consumption/possession by a minor or public intoxication. I think nearly all the priors for this group were alcohol-related.

IMHO, society needs to rethink its attitude towards alcohol education. Kids start drinking at college where there is little or no supervision by people who are older and wiser, which is not a good situation.

And the Bloomington Police do investigate crimes such as assault, theft, vandalism, etc. Jacobite, does that attempted abduction show up on the Bloomington crime map? If so, can you give a date and address?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/crime/map/bloomington/

 

[Ros]

It is obvious that this case need some serious help. Is it just me or is it going off to crazy town? just like the HB case. There is nothing , nothing to even discuss. I think we have brought up plenty of stuff at this forum that is not utilized by the cops or the family. For example. We discussed LS unique jewlery. someone here was nice enough to post some of the DY turq ring styles, four color and all. Yet if you go to the find LS website, there is nothing.....nothing to help the public find Lauren. Just the same cast of characters over and over.
Why is ok for MB name to be out there but we still dont know if JR had a roomie that night, no name, no picture....we dont know who the peeps are that punched CR and why. I want to know why they are so protected from the media and speculation on the forums.??? We dont know much about the peeps that found Laurens keys. I find the key story and timing bit odd. Maybe someone needs to account for their fingerprints.... Hopefully the story has video proof. I guess it has been only eight months but im sure for the family, it is eight months too long

IMHO, the people who are protected by the media are also protected from speculation on this forum because of its rules protecting the privacy of persons not named as suspects. They were the subject of a great deal of speculation on PT, TG's blog, the original JRNTT, JRNTTUncensored, and some comments in MSM articles.

 

[Ros]

p.s. This IU town sounds terrible to me. The fact that almost the entire group of friends have priors is unbelievable! really??? all these kids have priors? Sounds like over policing to me. And then when you need a cop, no where to be found...

Yes, really. Almost the entire group of male friends have priors. Check out mycase.in.gov and see for yourself. Here's the list for the individuals who have been mentioned in the MSM.

09/03/10 LS Public Intoxication, Illegal Consumption
10/24/08 JR Fake ID, Illegal Consumption
11/10/10 JR Illegal Consumption
10/22/08 CR Possession of Marijuana
11/01/10 CR Illegal Consumption
01/06/11 CR Illegal Consumption
03/11/09 MB Illegal Possession of Alcohol
03/24/09 MB Illegal Possession of Alcohol
03/17/08 JW Illegal Possession of Alcohol
09/03/10 JW Public Intoxication, Disorderly Conduct

Others who also have records include AO, AB and AA (who found the keys).

LS's closest female friends (HT, AR, SG, BW) have clean records except for a minor traffic violation.
http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

 

[Ros]

I've been quiet here. But, we have looking at this case all along. You have to get to know people who knew who Lauren is. Talk to detectives and people who know the POI's. I sat at Sports next to a few POI's. I have spoken to some people I will not name here.

Karen broke up with her boyfriend and told what happened. None of Lauren's friends say she did coke. Not even her IU friends. The POI's certainly did not
say that.


.

Why did the boyfriend want Karen to tell such a lie? Is her former boyfriend connected to the case in any way?

 

[Ros]

It is easy enough for a "modern-day kidnapper" to get rid of phones, ID's etc...they don't need to make it look like the victim lost them earlier in the day. And I don't see how any stalking random kidnapper-person could have possibly known or guessed that she would end up walking home alone at 4:30AM...once she went into the apartment bdg. it would be a safe assumption she would spend the night, in my opinion.

Not saying she couldn't have been taken by some "lucky" perp who happened to see her on the street alone, but I find it incredible to believe that this was an evening-long plan of abduction to include making her forget her phone, etc...which was found at the bar, by the way, not "disappeared", and her keys were also found along her path. Easier to chuck the whole lot in a lake.

Even thought the US Marshals checked out all the registered sex offenders in the area, it does not mean they were cleared. Some have addresses in the area.
http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Bloomington-Indiana.html

 

[imkeylime]

Almost every IU student drinks. Many of them are under 21. The ones who do so carefully and responsibly are no likely to be caught by the police. The ones who drink to the point of passing out or doing something stupid, or use fake IDs to enter a bar, seem to be the ones likely to be arrested for consumption/possession by a minor or public intoxication. I think nearly all the priors for this group were alcohol-related.

IMHO, society needs to rethink its attitude towards alcohol education. Kids start drinking at college where there is little or no supervision by people who are older and wiser, which is not a good situation.

And the Bloomington Police do investigate crimes such as assault, theft, vandalism, etc. Jacobite, does that attempted abduction show up on the Bloomington crime map? If so, can you give a date and address?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/crime/map/bloomington/

You make good points here, Ros ... and I agree that a lot of college students don't get "caught" if they don't do anything glaring. I also agree about rethinking alcohol education, though I think many HS do or attempt to address it. Obviously, that's not enough, since it's just as much a parent's job.

There's a decent amount of weekend drinking among high school students in my small town (southern New England), but according to my son, even kids who don't drink in HS feel it's OK once they've turned 18 or 19. So much for 21 ... and as you note, there is less supervision in that "in-between time."

 

[Jupiter812]

OH? How many city council meetings does he star before? Many! Many!
He speaks his hatred towards jewish people openly and publicly in this Bloomington, Indiana often. My town would not tolerate such a clown show for 5 minutes. Shame on Bloomington!!!!!!!!

http://privateinvesigations.blogspot.com/2011/10/lauren-spierer-is-it-hate-crime-case.html

Fortunately or unfortunately, hate speech is still constitutionally protected. I don't know where you live but if it did not tolerate, it risks a lawsuit.

 

[Jupiter812]

<snipped>
The guys who were with Lauren should have done the decent thing and sat down with Lauren's parents. I think they are afraid. Perhaps they are afraid they might be framed. Some nasty threads like IDS are enough to drive you to a lawyer. I saw how people bullied Mike Beth's mom when she outed herself there offering to meet with the Spierers. Rossman might have offered next.

MB's "mom" could be anyone. The IDS comment forum is anonymous. I would not be so quick to believe the identity of a person commenting on a student newspaper board. Why wouldn't she contact the Spierer's personally through the police or P.O box if she were serious about having conversation?

I don't believe it was her and if it was, she was not sincere about wanting such a meeting to take place. She just wanted to vent and defend her son. In any case, it is not an effective place to do the latter.

 

[Jupiter812]

The guys who were with Lauren should have done the decent thing and sat down with Lauren's parents. I think they are afraid. Perhaps they are afraid they might be framed.

If you or someone you know knows the POI then it's not too late for them to sit down and talk. JR already did this but with his lawyer, understandably. I know the Spierer's said they didn't learn any new information, but the way I see it is at least they can look the POI in the eye. I know Charlene said she did not want to meet with CR, perhaps she would reconsider.

Thanks.

 

[Jacobite]

Long QT gene neurology If interested, please Google the new research yourself.

Lauren alone st Sports and thrown out without cell and shoes. She was at Sports with Corey and left with him on her own is correct.

Public figures are treated much differently than private citizens in slander and libel cases.
The media only chose to make some of the POI's into public figures.

Tony Gatto's mystery man. I just read his description of this guy. Very creepy. This fits the description of the guy we saw exactly. To make sure all 3 of my witnesses had the same description, I phoned my 3rd witness and asked for his description and it is the same. The Bloomington Police detective promised me they would get the video from the alley camera. So, if this guy took Lauren he will be busted because 3 people will swear we saw what we saw. However,it may throw off someone's time frame. My account of
our event is the only info that I can swear is true, so help me God because it is first hand
information. Second hand info is hearsay.

 

[Jacobite]

If you or someone you know knows the POI then it's not too late for them to sit down and talk. JR already did this but with his lawyer, understandably. I know the Spierer's said they didn't learn any new information, but the way I see it is at least they can look the POI in the eye. I know Charlene said she did not want to meet with CR, perhaps she would reconsider.

Thanks.

If I had been with a girl who went missing, my parents would have marched me to see her parents so fast it would make your head spin. Perhaps someone who is a mutual friend of Lauren's and the POI's can break the ice. We must do the right thing for this girl's sake.

 

[Jupiter812]

Long QT gene neurology If interested, please Google the new research yourself.

Lauren alone st Sports and thrown out without cell and shoes. She was at Sports with Corey and left with him on her own is correct.

Public figures are treated much differently than private citizens in slander and libel cases.
The media only chose to make some of the POI's into public figures.

Tony Gatto's mystery man. I just read his description of this guy. Very creepy. This fits the description of the guy we saw exactly. To make sure all 3 of my witnesses had the same description, I phoned my 3rd witness and asked for his description and it is the same. The Bloomington Police detective promised me they would get the video from the alley camera. So, if this guy took Lauren he will be busted because 3 people will swear we saw what we saw. However,it may throw off someone's time frame. My account of
our event is the only info that I can swear is true, so help me God because it is first hand
information. Second hand info is hearsay.

For sure it would throw off JR's 4:15 and 4:30 times. It bears reminding that no one has corroborated his timeline. The fact that DR rec'd a 4:15 phone call does not corroborate.

Tweets and twitpics at http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/new-tweets-and-twitpics/

I do find it hard to believe that a perp in this high-profile case would strike or try to strike again.

 

[Jacobite]

Perhaps everything does fit together. When was the clock she saw at 10th and College set to Daylight Savings Time? We might be able to get an answer for this. And yes, criminal minds always mess up.

 

[akh]

If you want to speculate on inconsistencies that would allow JR not to be involved and the 3:30 mystery man actually being in play then the easiest thing I could think of would be JR embellishing his story early on to protect reputations of himself or even LS and never dreaming that LS wouldn't be found OK sleeping at someone else's home.

That scenario could be something like this:
She leaves MB and CR in a stupor and arrives at JR's door moments later obviously still in a stupor. For whatever reason he lets her leave his place just a couple of minutes later in a condition he shouldn't have let her leave in. Maybe he even lets her leave to go somewhere he doesn't want to tell (like a drug or booze run) that would get her in trouble and/or maybe the provider in trouble.

Maybe he expects her to return and wonders if she went home instead... or maybe he just wants to check and see if she got back to her apt bldg OK and he calls DR at 4:15AM (which goes unanswered).

Then the next day he gets questioned and told she's missing and he knows MB and CR likely told she was fairly buzzed at their place so he adds an hour to the time she spent at his place so as not to make it look like he let her leave without sobering up some first. Let alone not wanting to say something about her heading out to buy party supplies (if that was a factor).

Saying she made the phone call could've just been a quick way of solidifying his story or making her look more coherent.

By the morning, if he has no direct knowledge of something happening to her, then he's most likely thinking she'll turn up fine so he's just trying not to make himself look bad or even possibly make her look bad and get her into trouble. THEN when it turns out she really is missing and not going to be found staying the night somewhere unexpected, to change his story by that point he'd fear would make him look guilty. So he goes with it.

And with that scenario, MB and CR would never be the wiser that he'd lied in the first place. They wouldn't know when she left his place. So maintaining the lie wouldn't be that hard.

It would harm the investigation and official timeline though, but by that point he's probably worried selfishly about himself being implicated more than LS.

 

[Jupiter812]

Akh, thanks for that. ^ It not only explains the possible time discrepancy but why he might place her at his house which results in implicating himself.

 

[Jacobite]

The Mystery Man scenario makes the plot much less complex which of course makes a lot of sense. Now, we must determine how Lauren could have walked from 11th Street down to 10th and been missed by the detective viewing the video data. Perhaps she didn't take the direct route. Perhaps a camera wasn't working. Maybe he missed her somehow. They had to look at hours of video from multiple cameras. Perhaps we should find someone to take another look at this. This witness of the Mystery Man claims to have provided a police sketch of him. This appears to be a creditable witness account.

 

[RTC]

I would think a Manager at a local bar should be credible witness. Alot of responsibility comes along with managing a bar. Was she on foot or in a car?
akh could be on to something. maybe LS dropped by JR to party. he is all out of party favors so she offers to run back to SW and pick some up from her room or from DR. he tells her she too buzzed but she insists and says she will be right back, she never returns and he callsl DR to find out if she is coming back. he then calls it a night and goes to bed.
meanwhile LS is staggering all over the place and runs into mysteryman. maybe MM is not a predator, just someone trying to help but then she od's and he panics and hides her body rather than calling 911. shouldn't MM be on video somewhere if he is walking college ave?
maybe jr has been advised not to change his original story since she hasnt been found. if he changed his story he would look even guiltier since he was the last eyewitness.

 

[Ros]

Now, we must determine how Lauren could have walked from 11th Street down to 10th and been missed by the detective viewing the video data. Perhaps she didn't take the direct route. Perhaps a camera wasn't working. Maybe he missed her somehow. They had to look at hours of video from multiple cameras. Perhaps we should find someone to take another look at this. .

There's a forensic video lab at University of Indianapolis. I wonder if BPD has considered asking them to review the video.
http://news.uindy.edu/2011/11/28/in-the-news-forensic-video-lab-at-uindy/