IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[LaborDayRN]

Thanks. I'm okay now, and son seems to have survived without too much emotional damage.

One night when driving home from work with him in the back seat, crying as usual, I had a moment when I nearly steered the car into a bridge abutment at 75mph and the only reason I didn't is that I was afraid it wouldn't kill us. It caught me off guard; I knew I had been behaving a bit erratically but I didn't realize I was suicidal. Friends at work certainly didn't know. Spouse was worried about me but even now I don't think he knows how close I came to the edge.

I don't necessarily mean that this poor mother was in the same shape, but having been in those shoes, I don't find anything inherently unbelievable about the events as they've been described.

Thanks so much for sharing that. I know it's not an easy thing to do. I also know that so many mothers try to hide what's happening and feel so scared and alone. Just the simple act of talking about these things in a public forum could help a woman who is struggling make the decision to seek help.

 

[the seeker]

First impression .. someone WANTS it to sound like Paula Yates, but the injuries on her and the fact that they were all naked and she wasn't in much water makes me wonder .. going back to read more ..

Car left at home? How far was creek from home, how did she get there?

Andrea Yates, not Paula Yates. Paula Yates was the ex wife to British singer Bob Geldoph (Boomtown Rats) and the wife or girlfriend of deceased singer Michael Hutchinson of INXS. Paula Yates is dead too, but her children are alive and living with Mr. Geldoph.,,not dead by her hands. Andrea Yates is the woman who drowned her 5 kids in a bathtub due to PPP. Just wanted to clear that up, it's been driving me nuts.

Ok, now....did cause of death on this mother ever come back??

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Andrea Yates, not Paula Yates. Paula Yates was the ex wife to British singer Bob Geldoph (Boomtown Rats) and the wife or girlfriend of deceased singer Michael Hutchinson of INXS. Paula Yates is dead too, but her children are alive and living with Mr. Geldoph.,,not dead by her hands. Andrea Yates is the woman who drowned her 5 kids in a bathtub due to PPP. Just wanted to clear that up, it's been driving me nuts.

Ok, now....did cause of death on this mother ever come back??

No cause of death yet. Waiting on tox reports.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Andrea Yates, not Paula Yates. Paula Yates was the ex wife to British singer Bob Geldoph (Boomtown Rats) and the wife or girlfriend of deceased singer Michael Hutchinson of INXS. Paula Yates is dead too, but her children are alive and living with Mr. Geldoph.,,not dead by her hands. Andrea Yates is the woman who drowned her 5 kids in a bathtub due to PPP. Just wanted to clear that up, it's been driving me nuts.

Ok, now....did cause of death on this mother ever come back??

LOL I know! I just went back and edited my post and then saw this :blushing:

There are some really strange statements from the father in this case, I'm leaning towards him at the moment, but we do need the toxicology and cause of death .. also was she injured or not?

 

[the seeker]

LOL I know! I just went back and edited my post and then saw this :blushing:

That's OK! I could have done the same thing, lol! I don't think you were the only one either. Seems like there was another earlier in the thread, lol.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Notice you can drive to that part of the creek and that is where they were found, ad that to the baby harness in a tree and that sounds like the bodies were dumped there. The bible .. could that have been used in a makeshift funeral service by someone who was themselves religious?

Very strange things to leave at the site, the bible suggests suicide, was the baby harness a car harness or a walking harness? Strange nonetheless.

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Ma...found-dead-in-New-Albany-creek-198713081.html

 

[MsFacetious]

The baby was in a sling or a wrap... to carry the baby in.
(Or at least that is what was hanging from the tree with the bible in it.)

There is a picture of it earlier in the thread.
Definitely was not a vehicle car seat.
(Though if you were drowning a 6 month old, the car seat might be easier. Weird.)

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Notice you can drive to that part of the creek and that is where they were found, ad that to the baby harness in a tree and that sounds like the bodies were dumped there. The bible .. could that have been used in a makeshift funeral service by someone who was themselves religious?

Very strange things to leave at the site, the bible suggests suicide, was the baby harness a car harness or a walking harness? Strange nonetheless.

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Ma...found-dead-in-New-Albany-creek-198713081.html

It was a walking harness, like a sling. One article misreported it as a car seat.

I was convinced in the beginning it was murder/suicide now I'm about 50/50 on my opinion. I doubt we will find out to much more until tox reports come back or a arrest is made. It's very hard for me to believe she was in a state of psychosis and no one noticed. The symptoms in the articles presented are pretty severe.

She could have done this in the home but for whatever reason she chose to take them to a park in public, get naked and do it in a creek when it was freezing outside. Or, maybe she was overcome after they went to the park. Nobody noticed any strange behavior (there was the one comment about strange and unexplainable things going on outside that the father made) otherwise, are they in denial that she was having mental health issues. She seems to have gone a bit further in her actions than what I would anticipate a person doing. But, her thoughts may have had something to do with nature and God. I just don't know what to think.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

What clothes were left at the side of the creek do we know? I'm going to hedge towards suicide if it was full winter garb .. If not then staged .. Such a weird case, it's like a full Mrs Marple Mystery, complete with unusual priest!

 

[lillygator]

this is so very strange....

 

[necco]

The harness/sling in the tree is odd. Was it just tangled in the tree? Was it rigged in such a way that it might act as a swing?

 

[carbuff]

I don't say this in a rude or derogative statement towords you ...But I hope you have talked to someone and gotten help if not for you for your innocent child. Again Im not trying to be ignorant here I am thinking about safety for you and everyone around you...

The son involved is now 28 and doing just fine. We're all fine. But it was a close call.

And I did get help at the time, though back then the options were a lot more limited.

The point I was trying to make relative to this case was mainly that until that scary incident on the highway, nobody including myself knew I needed help. Spouse had noticed I was depressed, but up to that point I was pretty functional. Two kids, a job, teaching Sunday School. And it just came suddenly into my mind that I ought to do this thing -- maybe there were signs that an astute person could have picked up, but not much.

So I don't find it automatically suspicious that the mother in this case would have "snapped."

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The harness/sling in the tree is odd. Was it just tangled in the tree? Was it rigged in such a way that it might act as a swing?

Apparently, the harness with the bible in it, was hanging from a limb. That was as specific as they got.

As far as the clothing they weren't specific about that either. They just said the clothing was scattered in and around the creek.

 

[mysteriew]

I think there is a reason they aren't releasing more info on the autopsy of the mother. Even without the toxicology they already know certain things. Whether or not she died from drowning. Whether or not she had bruising. If she had died from drowning and no bruising, I think they would have already released that info. So waiting on the tox is a good reason for withholding that info, allowing them more time to investigate without letting on what they know.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think there is a reason they aren't releasing more info on the autopsy of the mother. Even without the toxicology they already know certain things. Whether or not she died from drowning. Whether or not she had bruising. If she had died from drowning and no bruising, I think they would have already released that info. So waiting on the tox is a good reason for withholding that info, allowing them more time to investigate without letting on what they know.

That's a brilliant point. Interesting.

 

[michmi]

Thanks, BeginnersLuck...I think it's so sad that her parents were not able to come to the services (unless that was her father), but they did say there would be a memorial at their church in Aberdeen. I wonder if Mr. Clutter will go up there for that?

In fact, this is just my personal feeling, I wish she and the children could have been buried back in WA also...that was where she was raised and all her family live, the church that she was raised in and all her friends.

I also was hoping she would be buried back in Washington.

 

[otto]

Post partum psychosis isn't new. It's what can happen if post partum depression goes unchecked.

I'm getting the impression that post partum psychosis requires the presence of some form of mental illness prior to pregnancy, and that this mental illness is aggravated during hormonal changes that are present during, and after, pregnancy. I think that there are an awful lot of women that would argue against any line of thinking that strictly equates psychosis with pregnancy, or states that women can become psychotic due to childbirth. Women have faught long and hard over the last couple of centuries to have childbirth defined as a normal bodily function; one that is natural and which should not be viewed as necessarily requiring medical intervention, or as something that causes psychotic mental illness.

I do believe that if a woman has a predisposition for psychotic behavior, then something like normal hormonal changes during, and after, childbirth could aggravate the problem.

 

[otto]

First impression .. someone WANTS it to sound like Andrea Yates, but the injuries on her and the fact that they were all naked and she wasn't in much water makes me wonder .. going back to read more ..

Car left at home? How far was creek from home, how did she get there?

It looks to be a short 10 minute walk along a path from the apartment to the creek. I'm still trying to understand how someone could override innate behaviors, like breathing, and commit suicide in 12-18 inches of water.

 

[otto]

LOL I know! I just went back and edited my post and then saw this :blushing:

There are some really strange statements from the father in this case, I'm leaning towards him at the moment, but we do need the toxicology and cause of death .. also was she injured or not?

There seems to be a fairly solid witness sighting confirming that the mom and children were alive and well at 7 - 7:30 AM, which pretty much excludes the husband ... since he left for a 12 hour work shift at about 4:45 in the morning.

 

[otto]

This is strictly my opinion, but I tend to view people with radical religious views as having some sort of personal issues such that they need radical religious views to manage their lives. Additionally, I have to wonder what sort of personal issues are present in people that gravitate towards radical religious beliefs. If I'm understanding correctly, this woman appears to have chosen to, or been conditioned to, rely heavily on religious beliefs and religious leadership to manage her life. That suggests to me that she did not trust herself to make good decisions, but instead required someone else to validate her thoughts and decisions. That, in itself, and in my opinion, makes it possible that she did have a mental break where she decided that it was better for the children to be with her God than to live a normal life. Still ... committing suicide in a puddle of water ... very difficult to understand.