IN IN - Otterbein, WhtFem 55-65, UP58250, right side mastectomy, box in cornfield, Oct'76

[Susikatze]

Surgical scar to the mid-line of the abdomen from the base of the sternum to the umbilicus (approx 8cm in length).​

is this describing an emergency csetion type scar? or something else?

That is not a Csection scar (those are usually horizontal around the pubic hairline and if vertical, which is rarely done, only runs from navel down midline) but a scar from any other major abdominal surgery.

 

[Susikatze]

In addition, a csection can easily be seen in the uterine muscle. I dont think it is a csection scar.

It may have had some connection to the breast cancer she has had - maybe to remove some metastases or lymphatic glands? But that should have been visible in autopsy. Any surgery leaves adhesions, let alone one that major.

 

[Susikatze]

The poor woman obviously had a hard life. Major abdominal surgery, breast cancer and also obviously worked hard with her hands. The only people ive met in my life with calloused hands were farmers...
Maybe worthwile checking the farms in the area whether a wife or mom suddenly went missing.

And id love to see her clothing..pantsuit sounds elegant business attire... but a slip underneath?

 

[Laughing]

That is not a Csection scar (those are usually horizontal around the pubic hairline and if vertical, which is rarely done, only runs from navel down midline) but a scar from any other major abdominal surgery.

My vertical C-section scar starts about 3/4 of an inch below my belly-button. When low-waisted jeans were popular -- I couldn't wear them without showing that receipt for my kid!

Sounds more like a hernia repair, or re-arrangement of the connection between esophagus & stomach?

Keep in mind that laproscopic surgery wasn't invented yet in 1976, and neither were the sophisticated imaging machines we have now. "Exploratory surgery" was still in use.

Wonder if we will ever know who this lady is?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Jerri Blank]

That is not a Csection scar (those are usually horizontal around the pubic hairline and if vertical, which is rarely done, only runs from navel down midline) but a scar from any other major abdominal surgery.

FWIW, my mom had a vertical csection scar from my birth in the early 80s. i know my delivery was an emergency delivery, but i always just assumed that was how they did it back then. i've had a couple csections myself and have the incisions you are describing.

but i am convinced by you all that it's not a csetion. i am just not at all medical so i was trying to make sense of the descriptions (also centimeters mean nothing to me lol!)

 

[lonewanderer]

I believe there is an entirely different thread on here about her, but, I wanted to note that I have read into this case before and it is highly alleged that she was dropped off of a helicopter into the corn field!

IIRC she was also found with air fresheners inside the box that held her body, and the box was believed to have been manufactured in Chicago, IL.

 

[annemc2]

FWIW, my mom had a vertical csection scar from my birth in the early 80s. i know my delivery was an emergency delivery, but i always just assumed that was how they did it back then. i've had a couple csections myself and have the incisions you are describing.

but i am convinced by you all that it's not a csetion. i am just not at all medical so i was trying to make sense of the descriptions (also centimeters mean nothing to me lol!)

Me either! Especially when they call pronounce it like "saahn-toe-meter" in obstetrics/gynecology. Like *why*!?!

Unraveling this mystery beginning with this woman's identity will be absolutely fascinating. The circumstances of this case are so very unique.

 

[Laughing]

I believe there is an entirely different thread on here about her, but, I wanted to note that I have read into this case before and it is highly alleged that she was dropped off of a helicopter into the corn field!

IIRC she was also found with air fresheners inside the box that held her body, and the box was believed to have been manufactured in Chicago, IL.

Oooooh, find that thread so the two can be combined!

Flight, including helicopters, is controlled in the US. And, JMHO, that's one heck of a sturdy cardboard box to remain intact containing over a hundred pounds dropped from a height!

Anxiously awaiting....

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[carbuff]

Cardboard is actually more likely to survive, because it flexes and gives. But the contents would have been--well, let's just say it would have been noticeable on the post-mortem exam.

I couldn't find another thread.

 

[fred&edna]

'Just reading the newspaper article (The Journal and Courier (Lafayette, Indiana) Oct 2 1977).

"Her nails were trimmed short, but police say they were ragged and her hands bore callouses."

"Sheriff Steely adheres to the theory that the box was dumped in Norman Skoog's cornfield by a helicopter, which approached from the northeast, swung to the southwest, lowered to hover near the ground, swung back to the west and disappeared to the northwest."

And, one of the strangest things (imo)...

"Although the time of death was later set at 7 to ten days before the woman was found, her body had suffered little decomposition."

 

[Laughing]

Interesting, indeed -- but imho Occam Razor would lead one elsewhere.

Minimal decomposition suggest cold, dry conditions to me -- refrigeration?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[fred&edna]

Interesting, indeed -- but imho Occam Razor would lead one elsewhere.

Minimal decomposition suggest cold, dry conditions to me -- refrigeration?

jmho ymmv lrr

Occam's Razor regarding how she came to be in the field... is that what you mean? If so, I was definitely surprised to see the sheriff was onboard with it... and in quite a bit of detail. With his description the chopper headed back in the direction from whence it came! Now who/why would someone "dispose" of a body in such an expensive manner? And, did they mean to drop the box in this location? Quite a puzzle, if true. And, to keep her refrigerated prior to disposal? So strange.

 

[lonewanderer]

Oooooh, find that thread so the two can be combined!

Flight, including helicopters, is controlled in the US. And, JMHO, that's one heck of a sturdy cardboard box to remain intact containing over a hundred pounds dropped from a height!

Anxiously awaiting....

jmho ymmv lrr

Cardboard is actually more likely to survive, because it flexes and gives. But the contents would have been--well, let's just say it would have been noticeable on the post-mortem exam.

I couldn't find another thread.

I couldn't find another thread, though I swore i could remember a "Benton County Box Lady" thread on here. Perhaps it was a different source I saw that.

 

[lonewanderer]

Now, a few things about the potential helicopter.

If the helicopter theory is true, its highly likely more than one person is involved.

Think it through. A pilot is needed to fly the helicopter, but would he really be able to land the chopper, get out, lug a heavy box out of the cargo area onto the ground, and then hop back in and fly off?

Or did he have a crew (or at least one accomplice) who pushed the box out of the cargo area?

To be sure the box was not slingloaded and carried through the air! Even then, someone would have to be on the ground to unhook the box.

This also makes me wonder what type of helicopter it was.

 

[lonewanderer]

I did some poking around Charley Project and came across a lady who disappeared from Lincoln, IL in June 1976, Ruth Louise Martin.

Though I am certain its not the same lady, this woman was 51 years old, between 5'7 - 5'10, and 155 pounds, and was highly suspected to have been shot at her home.

The real reason I wanted share this is because of the circumstances around her disappearance, they are quite bizarre!

"Martin was scheduled to testify against Russell Smrekar, who was accused of shoplifting two steaks (worth $4) from a Kroger grocery store. He was subsequently convicted of murdering Robin and Jay Fry and was sentenced to 200 to 600 years in prison.

Jay was the store clerk who saw Smrekar try to steal the steaks and was going to testify against him at the trial. Robin was Jay's wife, and was pregnant at the time of her death."

So this man killed three people who were going to testify against him for stealing $4 worth of steaks from Kroger??? AND he got SIX HUNDRED YEARS!!!!!

Once again, I am fully convinced this is NOT our lady. But if somehow it was, BOY OH BOY what a crazy story if Smrekar was somehow able to box her up and have her offloaded from a helicopter.

Charley Project source: Ruth Louise Martin – The Charley Project

 

[Ajaxkid]

And id love to see her clothing..pantsuit sounds elegant business attire... but a slip underneath?

That suit was described as a double-knit polyester suit. Quiet a few women just wore them as a part of regular dress. Not elegant at all, lol, and often quite ugly! The pants usually had a permanent seam sewed up the front of each leg. They were thick and hot, yet very convenient, because you didn’t have to iron— and you’d melt it anyway if you tried!

I just mention this because younger people may not realize that there was probably nothing particularly special about her wearing this suit.

 

[Laughing]

Whoops, @Ajaxkid , you're right! Here's a visual for you youngsters:

Vintage fashion: Sassy, stylish women's suits from the '70s

My Mom sewed, and taught me how, and I think this one is down in my sewing room:

image from zibbet marketplace

After a certain age, elastic waist pants & tummy coverage matter.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[fred&edna]

Now, a few things about the potential helicopter.

If the helicopter theory is true, its highly likely more than one person is involved.

Think it through. A pilot is needed to fly the helicopter, but would he really be able to land the chopper, get out, lug a heavy box out of the cargo area onto the ground, and then hop back in and fly off?

Or did he have a crew (or at least one accomplice) who pushed the box out of the cargo area?

To be sure the box was not slingloaded and carried through the air! Even then, someone would have to be on the ground to unhook the box.

This also makes me wonder what type of helicopter it was.

I wish I could link to the 1977 newspaper article. I'm sure there's someone here that could be able to do so.

Three people described seeing a helicopter in the area. One witness, knowledgeable about aircraft, described the helicopter as a gold and white Bell JetRanger.

Also, in the report... a state detective working on the case doesn't adhere so strongly with the theory of the helicopter but does not dismiss it.

 

[fred&edna]

Does this work??

 

[carbuff]

Does this work??

I was able to download it and read it.

She's dressed very similarly to what my grandmother, who would have been about the same age, used to wear for nicer casual wear. Shopping, visiting us, that sort of thing.

Some information about the Bell JetRanger series, including shots of the passenger compartment. Not the exact year, but it seems the design never changed much, probably.

https://aviation.wv.gov/aircraft/Documents/Bell 206 Series Helicopters.pdf